Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[Rangers in 7]

I didn't see it. Lol. Speak your mind dude. We're all angry NY fans in here.

Ehh it was rude. I’ll preface I did delete it, but it said I can’t wait to rub it in your face when he turns it around in a few years lol

 

[huerter]

Are we playing pad the veterans' stats, or are we playing hockey?

Norris Trophy winner, 50 goal scorer, mvp finalist, #1 center with a howitzer, and right handed stick not named Carpenter. Let's play two!

Edit: and those aren't guys from 5 different corners of the world. Those are 5 guys who have accumulated reps and thus have synergy and a bank of experience to draw on to self-correct. #Blessed

 

[Rangers in 7]

Norris Trophy winner, 50 goal scorer, mvp finalist, #1 center with a howitzer, and right handed stick not named Carpenter. Let's play two!

Edit: and those aren't guys from 5 different corners of the world. Those are 5 guys who have accumulated reps and thus have synergy and a bank of experience to draw on to self-correct. #Blessed

Ok….so take away the PP minutes from all five of those players and tell me what you have……

 

[huerter]

Ok….so take away the PP minutes from all five of those players and tell me what you have……

A donk coach

 

[ReddestRum]

Ehh it was rude. I’ll preface I did delete it, but it said I can’t wait to rub it in your face when he turns it around in a few years lol

Lol. I'm not opposed to eating crow, and I encourage people who haven't put me on ignore because I say things that they don't want to hear to call me out on it. I'll eat the f***ing crow gladly.

My question to you is, do you think we can afford to wait two years or more?

 

[Rangers in 7]

A donk coach

His point was it’s a double edged sword….you can’t bitch about his production because his 5 v 5 stats match up with our “superstars”. If given PP time in his first 3 years he would have WAYY more points. Then half of you bitching about him would love him

 

[mrmovies779]

Ok….so take away the PP minutes from all five of those players and tell me what you have……

Our young players lol

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

Norris Trophy winner, 50 goal scorer, mvp finalist, #1 center with a howitzer, and right handed stick not named Carpenter. Let's play two!

Edit: and those aren't guys from 5 different corners of the world. Those are 5 guys who have accumulated reps and thus have synergy and a bank of experience to draw on to self-correct. #Blessed

And this is exactly the reason Laf doesn't get an opportunity.

What happens when one of them has a lousy game? Do they sit? What happens when they go 0 for 5 through 2 periods and clearly nothing is working? What happens when they're losing badly, haven't generated any chances, the game is effectively over, and the Rangers get a late third period power play?

No, that unit is untouchable.

And that's the problem. This is why the kids never get a chance on the PP.
You can cherry pick stats all you want. The powerplay is 18th in the league...it isn't exactly lighting the world on fire. This isn't Francis-Lemieux-Jagr we're talking about.

These guys should not be untouchable if they have a bad stretch or game, and guys like Laf and Kakko should absolutely be getting a look from time to time when PP1 struggles. But yet they don't. Which is why Laf is the first #1 OA in the post WHA era who doesn't have a PP goal in his first 3 NHL seasons, and why Kakko has averaged 2 power play points a season for the past 3 years.

 

[huerter]

His point was it’s a double edged sword….you can’t bitch about his production because his 5 v 5 stats match up with our “superstars”. If given PP time in his first 3 years he would have WAYY more points. Then half of you bitching about him would love him

How many times do I have to say points schmoints (no sarcasm).

 

[Rangers in 7]

Lol. I'm not opposed to eating crow, and I encourage people who haven't put me on ignore because I say things that they don't want to hear to call me out on it. I'll eat the f***ing crow gladly.

My question to you is, do you think we can afford to wait two years or more?

Yeah I think we can. And honestly if he hadn’t been jerked around the last 2 years I think we would already be looking at 60 point player. The kid scored 19 even strength goals last year. With consistent minutes on the top PP line you could easily chalk another 5-10 by literally just being there

Our young players lol

Exactlyyyyy

 

[huerter]

So let me understand...those 5 guys are ordinary players who earned notoriety and accolades because of the PP but the best course of action is to not play them on the PP?

 

[Rangers in 7]

How many times do I have to say points schmoints (no sarcasm).

Points breed confidence. Confidence breeds better play. Just look at Kakko

So let me understand...those 5 guys are ordinary players who earned notoriety and accolades because of the PP but the best course of action is to not play them on the PP?

This season….yes they are (other then fox)

 

[huerter]

We jumped from 18th to 15th tonight. There is variance in a 40 game sample. You can climb real quick. You don't bench a proven .300 hitter cause they are hitting .250 after 60 games. Vally has talked all season how we are atop the league in chances. On Dec 29, 2022, Mitch Giguere cited our PP as the example Montreal should look at.

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

So let me understand...those 5 guys are ordinary players who earned notoriety and accolades because of the PP but the best course of action is to not play them on the PP?

That is not what anyone said. Why does everything always have to be extremes? The veterans can be very good players, but not be elite/untouchable. And wanting to see the kids get an opportunity when they're struggling is not the same thing as calling veterans "ordinary."

Kreider is a very good net front presence. He scored 52 goals last year. Adam Graves scored 52 goals once, was a great Ranger, but generally was good for 25-35. Kreider is probably good for 35 this year. There's no reason if he's sucking or ineffective, Lafreniere or Kakko can't get a look in that spot.

Trocheck is above average at faceoffs, and only once has exceeded 60 points in his career. Most of his production this season has been on the PP. No reason Zibanejad can't take faceoffs and one of the kids can get a look in this spot when he is struggling or ineffective.

Zibanejad has been very underwhelming outside of the PP this season except now that he's been reunited with Kakko. If the PK is taking away his one timer, he's having a bad game, and Trocheck's having a good game, there's no reason you can't put Panarin at the top of the LW circle like he did when he first came here and where he's scored a ton of goals in his career. Trochek takes the faceoffs and a kid gets a look at the right circle in a more traditional umbrella setup.

The only person on the first unit who should actually be untouchable is Fox, and I'd venture he should be generally playing the full 2 minutes on the PP.

 

[mas0764]

Moving your 11.6 mil former mvp candidate to a role he isn't suited for is not how you win hockey games.

That’s not necessarily true.

Panarin knows how to produce and Lafreniere doesn’t. Putting Panarin into a role that’s not ideal for a month or two months or half a season or whatever, he’ll still be fine. It’s not like he needs to put up a 100 point season to be ready at crunch time.

Lafreniere has skill but he needs to learn and develop confidence. Getting Lafreniere producing could be the difference between playoff success and not, however. You don’t want to tank a season maybe but force feeding a Hall of Famer at the exclusion of developing your first overall pick is actually what seems like the “stat padding,” instead of trying to win a Cup.

 

[huerter]

That is not what anyone said. Why does everything always have to be extremes? The veterans can be very good players, but not be elite/untouchable. And wanting to see the kids get an opportunity when they're struggling is not the same thing as calling veterans "ordinary."

Kreider is a very good net front presence. He scored 52 goals last year. Adam Graves scored 52 goals once, was a great Ranger, but generally was good for 25-35. Kreider is probably good for 35 this year. There's no reason if he's sucking or ineffective, Lafreniere or Kakko can't get a look in that spot.

Trocheck is above average at faceoffs, and only once has exceeded 60 points in his career. Most of his production this season has been on the PP. No reason Zibanejad can't take faceoffs and one of the kids can get a look in this spot when he is struggling or ineffective.

Zibanejad has been very underwhelming outside of the PP this season except now that he's been reunited with Kakko. If the PK is taking away his one timer, he's having a bad game, and Trocheck's having a good game, there's no reason you can't put Panarin at the top of the LW circle like he did when he first came here and where he's scored a ton of goals in his career. Trochek takes the faceoffs and a kid gets a look at the right circle in a more traditional umbrella setup.

The only person on the first unit who should actually be untouchable is Fox, and I'd venture he should be generally playing the full 2 minutes on the PP.

I stopped at putting a left handed shot in the bumper, rewound and unread the beginning.

 

[mas0764]

So let me understand...those 5 guys are ordinary players who earned notoriety and accolades because of the PP but the best course of action is to not play them on the PP?

The best course of action is to develop your first overall pick into a star so you have six stars on your team instead of five. Or whatever.

If you lose a couple regular season games while accomplishing that goal it is basically irrelevant. You have to play the long game.

That is not what anyone said. Why does everything always have to be extremes? The veterans can be very good players, but not be elite/untouchable. And wanting to see the kids get an opportunity when they're struggling is not the same thing as calling veterans "ordinary."

Kreider is a very good net front presence. He scored 52 goals last year. Adam Graves scored 52 goals once, was a great Ranger, but generally was good for 25-35. Kreider is probably good for 35 this year. There's no reason if he's sucking or ineffective, Lafreniere or Kakko can't get a look in that spot.

Trocheck is above average at faceoffs, and only once has exceeded 60 points in his career. Most of his production this season has been on the PP. No reason Zibanejad can't take faceoffs and one of the kids can get a look in this spot when he is struggling or ineffective.

Zibanejad has been very underwhelming outside of the PP this season except now that he's been reunited with Kakko. If the PK is taking away his one timer, he's having a bad game, and Trocheck's having a good game, there's no reason you can't put Panarin at the top of the LW circle like he did when he first came here and where he's scored a ton of goals in his career. Trochek takes the faceoffs and a kid gets a look at the right circle in a more traditional umbrella setup.

The only person on the first unit who should actually be untouchable is Fox, and I'd venture he should be generally playing the full 2 minutes on the PP.

Yup, spot on.

I stopped at putting a left handed shot in the bumper, rewound and unread the beginning.

That was foolish of you.

 

[Kocur Dill]

I didn't see it. Lol. Speak your mind dude. We're all angry NY fans in here.

Coach Carter was an awesome movie.

I'd go to war for Carter.

 

[bhamill]

Was there some news about him not putting in the work prior to this because i find that really hard to believe, from all accounts I've gotten from his junior days he was a leader in that regard.

i haven’t heard that, no. But honestly in two plus seasons he doesn’t seem much stronger. Now a lions share of that is probably just that his body hasn’t matured yet, but you would think aside from that he can still take small steps.
What served him against juniors obviously is not enough for the pros. He wouldn’t be the first kid to have to figure out that EVEN harder off season strength and conditioning is required at this level. In either case my point is he DOES need to be dedicated to that in the off season. I’m of the opinion that he will get there when he gets his man strength. Just like KK did.

 

[ReddestRum]

I still can't believe we're still at a point where people want to move the top 5 players on this team, and the cornerstone of our PP, off the PP at the near halfway point of the season for a mere confidence booster. It's cool to move the producing vets, but every time there's even a whiff of Laf getting moved this thread goes up in flames.

I'll plainly say it. Laf is not even close to being that one that should even be considered for a PP1 slot. That spot is reserved for Kakko. Then Chy. Then Laf.

Coach Carter was an awesome movie.

I'd go to war for Carter.

 

[PANARIN BREAD FAN]

That’s not necessarily true.

Panarin knows how to produce and Lafreniere doesn’t. Putting Panarin into a role that’s not ideal for a month or two months or half a season or whatever, he’ll still be fine. It’s not like he needs to put up a 100 point season to be ready at crunch time.

Lafreniere has skill but he needs to learn and develop confidence. Getting Lafreniere producing could be the difference between playoff success and not, however. You don’t want to tank a season maybe but force feeding a Hall of Famer at the exclusion of developing your first overall pick is actually what seems like the “stat padding,” instead of trying to win a Cup.

you do realize that attempts with bread and this kid on playing the same line hasn't consistently worked well at all right? wouldn't lining them up together for 40 games just be repeating futility over and over again and be considered pretty insane at this point?

i wouldn't label bread a stat padder. if he was doing that he certainly wouldn't have given blackwell the time of day. they actually hooked up on 6 points together while blackwell was on the team.

 

[ReddestRum]

you do realize that attempts with bread and this kid on playing the same line hasn't consistently worked well at all right? wouldn't lining them up together for 40 games just be repeating futility over and over again and be considered pretty insane at this point?

i wouldn't label bread a stat padder. if he was doing that he certainly wouldn't have given blackwell the time of day. they actually hooked up on 6 points together while blackwell was on the team.

Laf and Zib on the same line didn't look all too good as well, and it even felt like Zib was getting less time on the ice because of it.

 

[mas0764]

you do realize that attempts with bread and this kid on playing the same line hasn't consistently worked well at all right? wouldn't lining them up together for 40 games just be repeating futility over and over again and be considered pretty insane at this point?

i wouldn't label bread a stat padder. if he was doing that he certainly wouldn't have given blackwell the time of day. they actually hooked up on 6 points together while blackwell was on the team.

I’m speaking hypothetically. Not saying determinatively that Lafreniere must be fed minutes at Panarin’s expense.

I’m just refuting the tired notion that since the team is “trying to win,” that means it had no time for development of its young stars (or, in the same vein, will lose the locker room if it tries to keep adding young talent). It’s all nonsense.

Excuse making by homers for an administration that doesn’t know how to do both and consistently fails to win hardware by choosing one approach over the other.

 

[PANARIN BREAD FAN]

Laf and Zib on the same line didn't look all too good as well, and it even felt like Zib was getting less time on the ice because of it.

for a couple of brief flash moments they'll do fine. then it just doesn't work anymore.

i certainly don't have the answer(s) but from what i've witnessed putting on laffy on any of the top 2 lines is just exercising further futility.

 

[TheDirtyH]

he was ok, that line didnt really click, but he made the right plays at our blueline, had a couple nice passes, especially to kakko on the pp. good on the team to give him some encouragement postgame, he's still a kid, I'm sure it matters to him