Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[ReddestRum]

Are you guys serious….he played 11 minutes tonight….he needs to be told to go out there and try to make plays. If he makes a mistake that’s fine. His first game back after being scratched he plays a responsible game and you guys complain. If he had gone out and had 3 turnovers and an assist you’d complain. Again he played 11 minutes……for that matter so did chytil who has been playing great of late

Well, I'm glad our 1OA played a responsible game after his benching. Kakko out there driving the play on a line of vets and you guys are comfortable with responsible and chippy... good sign.

 

[mike14]

Are you guys serious….he played 11 minutes tonight….he needs to be told to go out there and try to make plays. If he makes a mistake that’s fine. His first game back after being scratched he plays a responsible game and you guys complain. If he had gone out and had 3 turnovers and an assist you’d complain. Again he played 11 minutes……for that matter so did chytil who has been playing great of late

What if he was told to go put and make plays but was just incapable?

I don't think most of us would be complaining if he got on the score board...

 

[PANARIN BREAD FAN]

well in defense of both laffy and chytil the kid line hasn't been the same since that laffterty hit.

laffy needs chytil to be effective. chytil is a little more flexible as he does have a nice chemistry with bread and fox.

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

What if he was told to go put and make plays but was just incapable?

I don't think most of us would be complaining if he got on the score board...

My biggest concern with Laf is his compete level. He takes a few aggressive offensive zone penalties, gets criticized by the coach, and has been playing scared for the last 10 days. Then he gets benched for a game, comes back, and still looks scared to make a mistake.

I want the Laf that celebrates a huge goal, slams the glass, gets into it with the fans, and enjoys the hell out of every goal his line scores, who looks engaged in the game, who's physical along the wall, who plays on the edge, who fights with Stamkos (though I don't want him fighting often, but that was a genuine both of them going "F this guy" hockey fight).

What I see is a player scared to make a mistake who's trying to take a responsible shift, not a player who's leaving a personality that's clearly in there somewhere trapped within, and not out on the ice, for fear of making a mistake.

We've seen Laf play the way everyone is hoping for before. It's not like he doesn't have it in him. All the people acting as if his ceiling is a 35 point checking forward are forgetting things we've already seen from him.

I think some of that is on him, but I also think a big piece of that is on the coaching staff for not putting him in positions to succeed (like the PP), and for punishing him when he DOES play engaged passionate hockey, and things don't go well. The game before he was benched, he didn't have a great game, but he did make two great passes towards the end of the game most forwards on this team can't make. No recognition of that, clearly.

Seriously, I'm just curious...how many 1OA scoring forwards who've played 3 seasons in the NHL have not scored a PPG in their career through the first 3 seasons?

 

[ReddestRum]

What if he was told to go put and make plays but was just incapable?

I don't think most of us would be complaining if he got on the score board...

None of us would be complaining if that on a line with Chy and Greasy V that one standout would be Laf. People really just want him to look like a leader and that he's worthy of the minutes you guys keep saying he should blindly get. You don't need 20 f***ing minutes to look like you deserve top minutes. You just need a shift. One shift of not looking like a pylon or being ordinary. Because believe it or not, we've got a lot of ordinary on this team already.

 

[inranger94]

11:48 icetime. He earned his way back for sure. Gallant has no clue.

 

[mike14]

Not always true.

Joe Thornton
Martin St. Louis
Vincent Lecavalier
Sedins
Iginla
Buchnevich (> PPG, I'd consider him elite right now)
MacKinnon
Huberdeau
Barkov

Among others

Bit of a weird list (and a buch stands as not really belonging despite how well he's playing), but most of those guys, especially in the top half, were showing at least elite traits by year 3 (Stamkos had 50g in his 2nd season!).

The main problem with Laf is more the most oart we aren't seeing the underlying skills and talent that you'd want to see for someone so highly touted.
Yeah some of those listed took a while to et going, but it was basically always a question of 'will they be a star or just a 1st liner?'.
With Laf we are waiting to see if he can look like a top 6 forward

 

[JHS]

Laf- no where to be found tonight and made Chytil look brutal. So where do we go from here? More patience?

One game does not make a player but honestly if this was his response then I’m not convinced he’s not actually regressing.

 

[ReddestRum]

My biggest concern with Laf is his compete level. He takes a few aggressive offensive zone penalties, gets criticized by the coach, and has been playing scared for the last 10 days. Then he gets benched for a game, comes back, and still looks scared to make a mistake.

TBH, that game where the Rangers were tied 3-3 and he's being a goof on the bench is probably why he got benched. I mean, he wasn't even having just a chuckle, but straight up being a clown. Don't think it was about any on ice mistakes.

 

[mas0764]

Gallant needs to step in and do some coaching. Or get someone who can.

Can’t just send messages and hope Laf figures it out.

 

[mike14]

y.Seriously, I'm just curious...how many 1OA scoring forwards who've played 3 seasons in the NHL have not scored a PPG in their career through the first 3 seasons?

Probably a lot. Stamkos had 2 x 90pt seasons in his 1st 3 and still wasn't PPG (243 games, 232 points) to show how hard it is to do.

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

Bit of a weird list (and a buch stands as not really belonging despite how well he's playing), but most of those guys, especially in the top half, were showing at least elite traits by year 3 (Stamkos had 50g in his 2nd season!).

The main problem with Laf is more the most oart we aren't seeing the underlying skills and talent that you'd want to see for someone so highly touted.
Yeah some of those listed took a while to et going, but it was basically always a question of 'will they be a star or just a 1st liner?'.
With Laf we are waiting to see if he can look like a top 6 forward

Closest comp to Laf is Huberdeau. Similar playstyles. Sometimes it takes a while, but responsibility and being used in scoring roles helps.

Look at RNH in Edmonton. Widely considered a draft bust, but now that he's being expected to pull his weight in a scoring role, he's scoring more than he has at any other point in his career.

The guys who are widely considered the biggest draft busts - the Patrik Stefans and Alexander Svitov's of the world, are never given expectations for scoring. It's very rare that an 18 year old comes into the league and lights it on fire, and the Crosby's of the world kind of stretched that generally accepted principle...but it's still far more common for players to come into a depth role at 18, struggle with conditioning and physical play, put up 30 points, then learn from the experience.

Each year they are given more responsibility and expectations, until they're elite. Rate of development varies, but the common threat for all those who do make it is increased responsibility, opportunity, and expectations.

Laf is still being used exactly the way he was as a rookie, so it's no surprise he's producing similarly to how he did as a rookie.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

Probably a lot. Stamkos had 2 x 90pt seasons in his 1st 3 and still wasn't PPG (243 games, 232 points) to show how hard it is to do.

Sorry - wasn't clear on my intended use of PPG in that sentence.

Meant powerplay goal, not point per game. LOL

 

[will1066]

Laf gave Kakko a beautiful feed on PP2 in the first period. If Kakko had potted that one, we'd all be signing a slightly different tune about responding to the benching.

 

[mike14]

Laf gave Kakko a beautiful feed on PP2 in the first period. If Kakko had potted that one, we'd all be signing a slightly different tune about responding to the benching.

Well yeah, results matter.
But if the rest of the game played out the same w'd probably also being saying "great start but he faded badly as the game went on and was all but invisible by the end".
And that was pretty much his game; nice pass, a few shots (not overly threatening but at least he's shooting), and then nothing

 

[mas0764]

Probably a lot. Stamkos had 2 x 90pt seasons in his 1st 3 and still wasn't PPG (243 games, 232 points) to show how hard it is to do.

PPG meaning power play goal not point per game

 

[will1066]

Well yeah, results matter.
But if the rest of the game played out the same w'd probably also being saying "great start but he faded badly as the game went on and was all but invisible by the end".
And that was pretty much his game; nice pass, a few shots (not overly threatening but at least he's shooting), and then nothing

He had a bit more jump in this game, I thought.

 

[Good Intentions]

13:48. 2 shots. -1 rating.

Very easy to predict.

 

[mike14]

He had a bit more jump in this game, I thought.

I thought his first was pretty good. After that not so much. His line doesn't help him (especially this game), but then that becomes it's own issues as you really want him to be the one driving a line.
I said it in the GDT but he still seems to get caught out being stationary/flat-footed a lot

 

[ReddestRum]

Well yeah, results matter.
But if the rest of the game played out the same w'd probably also being saying "great start but he faded badly as the game went on and was all but invisible by the end".
And that was pretty much his game; nice pass, a few shots (not overly threatening but at least he's shooting), and then nothing

He put a shot on goal this game. 4 shots in his last 5. I guess he is sort of consistent.

 

[mrmovies779]

Kid is struggling with his confidence. playing too safe,not trying to make a mistake.Someone needs to take the training wheels off the kid and just tell him to go make stuff happen.Playing it safe won't work for him

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

I'm going to answer my own question:

NHL #1 overall draft picks (FORWARDS ONLY) and powerplay goals through first 3 seasons:
2022 - Slafkovsky (1) - 1 season
2020 - Lafreniere (0)
2019 - Hughes (11)
2017 - Hischier (6)
2016 - Matthews (25)
2015 - McDavid (11)
2013 - MacKinnon (18)
2012 - Yakupov (15)
2011 - Nugent-Hopkins (11)
2010 - Hall (25)
2009 - Tavares (27)
2008 - Stamkos (50)
2007 - Kane (29)
2005 - Crosby (35)
2004 - Ovechkin (59)
2002 - Nash (36)
2001 - Kovalchuk (32)
1999 - Stefan (1)
1998 - Lecavalier (15)
1997 - Thornton (12)
1993 - Daigle (9)
1991 - Lindros (28)
1990 - Nolan (32)
1989 - Sundin (25)
1988 - Modano (26)
1987 - Turgeon (44)
1986 - Joe Murphy (1) - only 76 games in first 3 years, and only one real full season
1985 - Wendel Clark (23)
1984 - Mario Lemieux (47)
1983 - Brian Lawton (5)
1981 - Dale Hawerchuk (35)
1980 - Doug Wickenheiser (8)

Which one of these is not the others?

So, to recap, in the history of the NHL entry draft post WHA, Alexis Lafreniere is the only #1OA forward who has not scored a single powerplay goal in his first 3 seasons.

How is his usage setting him up for success exactly? Powerplay scoring is a huge piece of Panarin, Zibanejad, and Trocheck's scoring this season. Shouldn't Laf occasionally get the same opportunity???

 

[bleedblue94]

Laffy getting the hat tonight for being a minus 1 with no points and less than 12 mins of ice time today is a GIANT f*** you to the coaching staff. Make absolute no mistake about that...

 

[will1066]

I thought his first was pretty good. After that not so much. His line doesn't help him (especially this game), but then that becomes it's own issues as you really want him to be the one driving a line.
I said it in the GDT but he still seems to get caught out being stationary/flat-footed a lot

Laf's game currently isn't possession based. If Chytil is having an one-night, he's going to suffer. And without Kakko on the line, there's no possession monster driving play. We got Vesey tonight. I would like to see Kravtsov on that line to bump back up the talent level on the line. Laf is going to need to try to make plays sporadically and help support possession if he cannot drive play.