Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[bleedblue94]

Have you ever played organizational hockey??? Of course they're not going to get demoted. Tenure means something in hockey. Vet status is a thing, especially when those vets are #1 and #2 in points on the team. Any coach that benchers their top scorers, top paid players, in lieu of unproven young players no matter how the damn season is going is going to have a very long talk with that team's owner before being thrown out the door.

But laffy and kakko aren't Vinny lettari or don Biggs. They are core members of this organization yet they are never treated as such. It also reflects in their confidence. Both have lapses in confidence that are obvious and constant demotions don't help.

Not true at all. Hughes played 15:52 his rookie year. 9th on the team among forwards in 5v5 TOI. He was a third liner with PP time. He started getting minutes the next year.

You guys make it sound like it's impossible to produce in lesser roles. Plenty of guys do it. Besides the production isn't even the issue. It's the play on the ice. If Laf got 3 mins more per game he'd suddenly be stealing the puck like Hughes and getting breakaways that lead to penalty shots? Hughes may not have produced early but he generated chances and you could see ability. What does Laf do on the ice that is impressive? He makes the occasional good pass and half the board acts like it was some amazing. He gets an assist a few games back by getting a puck on the boards and passing it back to the point and we're told it's a great play and signs of the future. The only real great play I can even remember him making was the goal against Detroit last year.

Pp touches for young skilled players in the NHL is invaluable. The ways Hughes was handled is ideal...

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Have you ever played organizational hockey??? Of course they're not going to get demoted. Tenure means something in hockey. Vet status is a thing, especially when those vets are #1 and #2 in points on the team. Any coach that benchers their top scorers, top paid players, in lieu of unproven young players no matter how the damn season is going is going to have a very long talk with that team's owner before being thrown out the door.

I've played internationally for my country, so I'd suppose that was organized enough, along with varying levels of pro hockey and am currently coaching AAA hockey, but thanks for asking. Has nothing to do with the vets and everything to do with the future success of this team. Nobody says you have to bench anyone, but if you are gonna let vets figure it out over time atleast a fraction of the leeway given to them should be given to the kids. We aren't talking about a week long stretch of bad play, we are talking about a period of questionable play and the plug was pulled. The kids lasted 2 games on with Zib, Vesey spent most of the season there and a lot of it was not good, why does a guy who nobody really wanted this year get that leeway over kids that are the futute of this franchise? It makes no sense.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Is Blais really a vet if he’s been injured 75% of his career? Man what a terrible trade that was. Buch having more goals since the trade than Blais has SHOTS is f***ing ridiculous

Might be the worst trade in Rangers history, and that's not an exaggeration

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I'm not giving Gallant a pass (I still want him fired) but I also could not care less about how other teams develop their players. The Devils, or whoever else, situation was entirely different from the one our guys were drafted into.

This isnt directed at you, but its not lost on me that the perpetual rebuild/development folks are the most impatient when it comes to how our kids are progressing. Everyone wants to crown the Devils (who are already showing their warts) and its not even Christmas. Whereas over here with the Rangers, wins only count if the analytics back it up for some reason, and every loss means we should rebuild. It's tiresome.

Our kids look pretty damn good so my opinion is to enjoy that and not be jealous of one of the most unsuccessful franchises of the last decade

The problem is that we can develop and win at the same time, they refuse to do it.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Not true at all. Hughes played 15:52 his rookie year. 9th on the team among forwards in 5v5 TOI. He was a third liner with PP time. He started getting minutes the next year.

You guys make it sound like it's impossible to produce in lesser roles. Plenty of guys do it. Besides the production isn't even the issue. It's the play on the ice. If Laf got 3 mins more per game he'd suddenly be stealing the puck like Hughes and getting breakaways that lead to penalty shots? Hughes may not have produced early but he generated chances and you could see ability. What does Laf do on the ice that is impressive? He makes the occasional good pass and half the board acts like it was some amazing. He gets an assist a few games back by getting a puck on the boards and passing it back to the point and we're told it's a great play and signs of the future. The only real great play I can even remember him making was the goal against Detroit last year.

Spot on. It's sort of funny that we have our own test case in Filip chytil who has been developed in a fairly similar fashion but somehow has been able to produce at a respectable rate and show flashes of brilliance at the same time, but somehow the only way we can expect the same out of Lafreniere or Kakko is that they must be force-fed top tier usage. Its pure cope in my book.

 

[Psycho for Perreault]

Not true at all. Hughes played 15:52 his rookie year. 9th on the team among forwards in 5v5 TOI. He was a third liner with PP time. He started getting minutes the next year.

You guys make it sound like it's impossible to produce in lesser roles. Plenty of guys do it. Besides the production isn't even the issue. It's the play on the ice. If Laf got 3 mins more per game he'd suddenly be stealing the puck like Hughes and getting breakaways that lead to penalty shots? Hughes may not have produced early but he generated chances and you could see ability. What does Laf do on the ice that is impressive? He makes the occasional good pass and half the board acts like it was some amazing. He gets an assist a few games back by getting a puck on the boards and passing it back to the point and we're told it's a great play and signs of the future. The only real great play I can even remember him making was the goal against Detroit last year.

So more than Laf is getting in year 3. Ok cool. Good talk.

 

[SA16]

So more than Laf is getting in year 3. Ok cool. Good talk.

Make plays, you move up the lineup. It's not that complicated. Show nothing, you don't. If you need to be played in the top six and PP1 to show anything and produce then you're not any good in the first place. Year 3 and he hasn't been able to hold down a top role between multiple coaches and general managers yet it's the organizations fault and not the player for not being good enough?

And I don't want to hear about "Oh, Vesey and Goodrow are in the top six and make mistakes and they don't get demoted." Not true. Zibanejad's second most common linemate, after Kreider, is Kakko. Panarin's second most common linemate, after Trocheck, is Lafreniere.

 

[McRanger92]

The problem is that we can develop and win at the same time, they refuse to do it.

It seems to be going fine. Players aren't finished products at 22 just because fans want them to be

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Make plays, you move up the lineup. It's not that complicated. Show nothing, you don't. If you need to be played in the top six and PP1 to show anything and produce then you're not any good in the first place. Year 3 and he hasn't been able to hold down a top role between multiple coaches and general managers yet it's the organizations fault and not the player for not being good enough?

And I don't want to hear about "Oh, Vesey and Goodrow are in the top six and make mistakes and they don't get demoted." Not true. Zibanejad's second most common linemate, after Kreider, is Kakko. Panarin's second most common linemate, after Trocheck, is Lafreniere.

Thats not whats happening here though, every time the kids get on some sort of roll the rug gets pulled out, i mean Laf was doing great last year on the top line then one night he had an off game and never got back there for the rest of the season. Vesey and Goodrow are bottom 6 players, why they are in the top 6 is mind boggling enough even without the kids entering the conversation.

 

[Psycho for Perreault]

Make plays, you move up the lineup. It's not that complicated. Show nothing, you don't. If you need to be played in the top six and PP1 to show anything and produce then you're not any good in the first place. Year 3 and he hasn't been able to hold down a top role between multiple coaches and general managers yet it's the organizations fault and not the player for not being good enough?

And I don't want to hear about "Oh, Vesey and Goodrow are in the top six and make mistakes and they don't get demoted." Not true. Zibanejad's second most common linemate, after Kreider, is Kakko. Panarin's second most common linemate, after Trocheck, is Lafreniere.

Haha. So you don't wanna hear about Vesey and Goodrow even though they don't deserve the minutes they are getting. Krav benched off a win. Kakko and Laf moved down in the middle of a 3 game win streak. Laf had 2 goals in that 3 game streak. Kakko had a goal and another while demoted yesterday because Trouba was bad.

This is a major problem with the coach. If you can't see it, sorry. You are wrong. But saying you don't wanna hear about Vesey and Goodrow makes me think you are related to GG. In that case, i'm sorry. Hope you don't have the sniffles.

 

[huerter]

We had two PPs. The first one we did the quick up to keep their gassed Pkers on the ice. The second one we scored. Watch the effing game. Put aside your agenda.

 

[SA16]

Haha. So you don't wanna hear about Vesey and Goodrow even though they don't deserve the minutes they are getting. Krav benched off a win. Kakko and Laf moved down in the middle of a 3 game win streak. Laf had 2 goals in that 3 game streak. Kakko had a goal and another while demoted yesterday because Trouba was bad.

This is a major problem with the coach. If you can't see it, sorry. You are wrong. But saying you don't wanna hear about Vesey and Goodrow makes me think you are related to GG. In that case, i'm sorry. Hope you don't have the sniffles.

Again, stop mentioning stats. The stats aren't the problem. It's the play. Kakko has 10 points in 30 games? Would I say he's been bad? If I just looked at his scoring numbers, yes. Clearly he hasn't been. He's generated tons of chances and is very strong on the puck. You can see how he might have potential to become a very good wing. Chytil played in the bottom six for years. You still saw the occasional rush up the ice and nice play. Laf you see very little from. You see so little that the occasional assist/goal is absolutely celebrated even when it is the most routine of plays. Stop blaming everyone else for his play.

 

[Psycho for Perreault]

Again, stop mentioning stats. The stats aren't the problem. It's the play. Kakko has 10 points in 30 games? Would I say he's been bad? If I just looked at his scoring numbers, yes. Clearly he hasn't been. He's generated tons of chances and is very strong on the puck. You can see how he might have potential to become a very good wing. Chytil played in the bottom six for years. You still saw the occasional rush up the ice and nice play. Laf you see very little from. You see so little that the occasional assist/goal is absolutely celebrated even when it is the most routine of plays. Stop blaming everyone else for his play.

Who am I blaming for their play? I am saying they should play. That's how teams develop young players. Not by playing Goodrow and Vesey above their station. This is common sense.

 

[SA16]

Who am I blaming for their play? I am saying they should play. That's how teams develop young players. Not by playing Goodrow and Vesey above their station. This is common sense.

And I am telling you he is Panarin's most common wing linemate on the year. Lines change. He's not going to get 100% of the time there. He's got most of it. Maybe if he showed he was worth leaving there he would stay there. Instead he has 3 points in 163 minutes so you shouldn't be surprised when the coach makes a change when he's not producing or creating anything.

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

Again, stop mentioning stats. The stats aren't the problem. It's the play. Kakko has 10 points in 30 games? Would I say he's been bad? If I just looked at his scoring numbers, yes. Clearly he hasn't been. He's generated tons of chances and is very strong on the puck. You can see how he might have potential to become a very good wing. Chytil played in the bottom six for years. You still saw the occasional rush up the ice and nice play. Laf you see very little from. You see so little that the occasional assist/goal is absolutely celebrated even when it is the most routine of plays. Stop blaming everyone else for his play.

If you haven't seen the occasional nice play from Laffy, you haven't been watching him lol Ridiculous

 

[McRanger92]

If you haven't seen the occasional nice play from Laffy, you haven't been watching him lol Ridiculous

He has been much less noticeable with the puck and much more noticeable away from the puck (not in good way) than the other 2 this season. He's still developing but Laf is behind Chytil and Kakko by a large margin at this point

 

[will1066]

This is what it boils down to. Our young talent getting drafted onto a good, top-heavy team in their starter years. Making the SCF was possibly, IMO, one of the worst things that could've happened in terms of "development", because GG is now expected to push for that again. We didn't pay top dollar for some of these players for the team to be in a rebuild for 5-10 years. Other teams have the luxury of sucking and being able to rebuild how they want and play who they want. We're in a very tough spot and the next three years for us is going to be interesting in terms of the roster.

Yep. They hedged their bets on the top guys. They are running that into ground before giving the kids anything more. A lot of money has been put there and they're expected to give some ROI.

 

[SA16]

If you haven't seen the occasional nice play from Laffy, you haven't been watching him lol Ridiculous

They are very few and far between. The nicest play I saw him make this year was two games ago, I don't remember when, when he had the puck on the boards in the offensive zone and made a couple of strong moves/curls around players and then made a pass. It didn't turn into anything but it was a good play.

 

[Number 9]

Might be the worst trade in Rangers history, and that's not an exaggeration

I hope Buch comes back to us one day. Miss that guy.

 

[McRanger92]

I hope Buch comes back to us one day. Miss that guy.

Well the blues are approaching dumpster fire territory so maybe we can offer them Lafreniere. Id say im 90% kidding

 

[huerter]

Laf wasn't moved down. He was moved to the kid line. He was moved from the Messier line to the Gilbert line. Get cised, stay cised.

 

[Psycho for Perreault]

And I am telling you he is Panarin's most common wing linemate on the year. Lines change. He's not going to get 100% of the time there. He's got most of it. Maybe if he showed he was worth leaving there he would stay there. Instead he has 3 points in 163 minutes so you shouldn't be surprised when the coach makes a change when he's not producing or creating anything.

He scored 2 goals in the 3 game winning streak we were just on before the Devils game. Please explain to me what Vesey and Goodrow did to show they should be the benefit of the kid line being bumped down.

Laf wasn't moved down. He was moved to the kid line. He was moved from the Messier line to the Gilbert line. Get cised, stay cised.

That's being moved down. They got 2 shifts in the last 10 minutes.

HF Boards: We don't develop our kids. They stink. Why is this organization so cursed?

Also HF Boards: They aren't demoted just because Vesey and Goodrow are playing more than them.

 

[mas0764]

He has been much less noticeable with the puck and much more noticeable away from the puck (not in good way) than the other 2 this season. He's still developing but Laf is behind Chytil and Kakko by a large margin at this point

He was better last year which should tell you something.

Development is about sometimes being gifted ice time above what you've earned, so you can learn with live reps, but it doesn't end there either.

There is such a thing as coaching between the games.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

He was better last year which should tell you something.

Development is about sometimes being gifted ice time above what you've earned, so you can learn with live reps, but it doesn't end there either.

There is such a thing as coaching between the games.

You don't think this is happening?

 

[NickyFotiu]

You don't think this is happening?

Coaching between games for individual players does occasionally happen but it is rare and usually based on a player approaching an assistant coach to work on something together.