Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[SA16]

Because highlights don't equal actually playing hockey. This is the worst generation of hockey i swear. I've mentioned this before it's more soccer and lacrosse than hockey. Bunch of showboat actors.

Doing "the Michigan" isn't f***ing hockey.

Lafreniere isn't a flashy player. He's a throwback north-south player that picks up goals around the net and throws checks on the boards. He has hands and vision and all that. But none of that matters when you're castrated, benched, and punished every time his inexperience is visible.

Who said anything about doing a Michigan? Let’s see the good plays. It can be as simple as something like a Fox head fake pass to draw away the defenders and set something up. Obviously my example was intentionally extreme. It can be something like zibanejads one timer. Why don’t you just write down the time he makes a good or special play for the next 3-5 games and we can go back and look after. Here, I’ll start. He made a very good play on 12/9 at 10:23 pm (I don’t remember the time on the game clock). Best play I saw him make all year

 

[Daves a mess]

Note to self: Stay out of the main NHL chat. They think Laffy is worst than Alexandre Daigle.

I don't recall Daigle being better or worse than Laf when he was a Ranger.

Just older.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

f***ing one of the worst. 76 points last season for Buch for his St Louie trade debut year and a point per game so far this year. What the f*** were we thinking?

Trading Buchnevich wasn't the problem. The terrible return of a 2nd round pick and a mediocre 4th line winger is the problem.

 

[ReddestRum]

Because highlights don't equal actually playing hockey. This is the worst generation of hockey i swear. I've mentioned this before it's more soccer and lacrosse than hockey. Bunch of showboat actors.

Doing "the Michigan" isn't f***ing hockey.

Lafreniere isn't a flashy player. He's a throwback north-south player that picks up goals around the net and throws checks on the boards. He has hands and vision and all that. But none of that matters when you're castrated, benched, and punished every time his inexperience is visible.

LMFAO!!!!!!!!! TORTS, IS THAT YOU??



You people in this thread are reaching a new f***ing low now. Criticizing young players for being flashy, but somehow forgetting that those players can also put the puck in the net. Zegras equaled Laf's career point total in one season, and did it on one of the WORST teams in the league for that year. For some reason, you guys always seem to go after other players that actually have talent. Hughes, oh he's only good because he gets PP minutes. Zegras, too flashy, this isn't even hockey. YET.. you'll defend Laf to death because he can skate up and down a rink and occasionally put up a point or two every 4-5 games. But please, keep crying that he doesn't have time to shine when a pylon looks more motivated out there on the ice when he's actually playing.

Please keep going though. HF is usually boring on non game days, but the hilarity here is feeding me immensely.

 

[bhamill]

LMFAO!!!!!!!!! TORTS, IS THAT YOU??



You people in this thread are reaching a new f***ing low now. Criticizing young players for being flashy, but somehow forgetting that those players can also put the puck in the net. Zegras equaled Laf's career point total in one season, and did it on one of the WORST teams in the league for that year. For some reason, you guys always seem to go after other players that actually have talent. Hughes, oh he's only good because he gets PP minutes. Zegras, too flashy, this isn't even hockey. YET.. you'll defend Laf to death because he can skate up and down a rink and occasionally put up a point or two every 4-5 games. But please, keep crying that he doesn't have time to shine when a pylon looks more motivated out there on the ice when he's actually playing.

Please keep going though. HF is usually boring on non game days, but the hilarity here is feeding me immensely.

I think what most of us are saying is that flashier doesn't EQUAL better. I mean look at Kravtsov so far. I think Zegras is a legit 1st liner in the making and Hughes is an elite center in the making. I'd love either/both on this team. The problem is people look at them and say why don't Laf and Kakko look like that? And then declaring them busts on that basis and on not having the numbers, discounting the fact that Hughes and Zegras have been given opportunities our kids have not.
I posted a comparison of Laf's and Hughes' rookie seasons earlier:
Hughes had 21 points and was a minus 26 in 61 games with about 16 mins a game.
Laf had 21 points and was a minus 7 in 56 games getting about 12 minutes a game if that.
At even strength Laf outscored Hughes 21 to 12. Some one else noted that through their first 163 games played Hughes got TWELVE HUNDRED minutes more TOI than Lafraniere... It's not crazy to say that if Laf had the opportunities/responsibility/PP time/1st line minutes Hughes was GIVEN (if he earned it then so did Laf) that we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.
I STILL think Laf will be a more valuable player than Hughes, with similar point totals, when all is said and done. I DO understand the impatience and disappointment, but in the end my bet is we are very happy we took him.

 

[Postulates]

I think what most of us are saying is that flashier doesn't EQUAL better. I mean look at Kravtsov so far. I think Zegras is a legit 1st liner in the making and Hughes is an elite center in the making. I'd love either/both on this team. The problem is people look at them and say why don't Laf and Kakko look like that? And then declaring them busts on that basis and on not having the numbers, discounting the fact that Hughes and Zegras have been given opportunities our kids have not.
I posted a comparison of Laf's and Hughes' rookie seasons earlier:
Hughes had 21 points and was a minus 26 in 61 games with about 16 mins a game.
Laf had 21 points and was a minus 7 in 56 games getting about 12 minutes a game if that.
At even strength Laf outscored Hughes 21 to 12. Some one else noted that through their first 163 games played Hughes got TWELVE HUNDRED minutes more TOI than Lafraniere... It's not crazy to say that if Laf had the opportunities/responsibility/PP time/1st line minutes Hughes was GIVEN (if he earned it then so did Laf) that we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.
I STILL think Laf will be a more valuable player than Hughes, with similar point totals, when all is said and done. I DO understand the impatience and disappointment, but in the end my bet is we are very happy we took him.

Hughes is only a few months older than Laf so where Hughes was 18 for majority of his rookie season Laf was 19 because he was a late birthday

 

[bhamill]

Hughes is only a few months older than Laf so where Hughes was 18 for majority of his rookie season Laf was 19 because he was a late birthday

They are 5 months apart It's not like they are each born just on the other side of the cutoff. I think it's fair to compare their rookie seasons in the NHL, as that is where they both took their step up from juniors, obviously. Hughes is also a small speedy player, the kind that tend to develop more quickly.
My point still stands. As rookies, D+1, Laf did MORE than Hughes with less opportunity. It's fair to say that with EQUAL opportunity, and an additional 1200 minutes of NHL playing time, Laf isn't far off of Hughes' numbers. And he will, again , IMO, be a more valuable player, especially post season, when all is said and done.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Who said anything about doing a Michigan? Let’s see the good plays. It can be as simple as something like a Fox head fake pass to draw away the defenders and set something up. Obviously my example was intentionally extreme. It can be something like zibanejads one timer. Why don’t you just write down the time he makes a good or special play for the next 3-5 games and we can go back and look after. Here, I’ll start. He made a very good play on 12/9 at 10:23 pm (I don’t remember the time on the game clock). Best play I saw him make all year

The best play he made all year was against Winnipeg when he made a self pass off the boards, skated down the wall and then cut in and got a quality shot off. That's the last time I recall him making a play that made me bricked up. They are so few and far between that it's kind of easy to pick out a play like that.

 

[PANARIN BREAD FAN]

in their rookie years laffy was playing with better players than did hughes and still did worse.

maybe a good idea to stop comparing laffy to hughes - hughes is a bonafide star who makes 10 mind blowing plays for every 1 decent laffy play.

question: would most people here be more than satisfied if laffy posts up these numbers onward starting next season?

23-24 79 GP 21 G 22 A 43 PTS
24-25 75 28 25 53
25-26 58 16 21 37
27-28 79 28 24 52

those numbers above belong to chris kreider from 2015-19.

 

[Psycho for Perreault]

I think what most of us are saying is that flashier doesn't EQUAL better. I mean look at Kravtsov so far. I think Zegras is a legit 1st liner in the making and Hughes is an elite center in the making. I'd love either/both on this team. The problem is people look at them and say why don't Laf and Kakko look like that? And then declaring them busts on that basis and on not having the numbers, discounting the fact that Hughes and Zegras have been given opportunities our kids have not.
I posted a comparison of Laf's and Hughes' rookie seasons earlier:
Hughes had 21 points and was a minus 26 in 61 games with about 16 mins a game.
Laf had 21 points and was a minus 7 in 56 games getting about 12 minutes a game if that.
At even strength Laf outscored Hughes 21 to 12. Some one else noted that through their first 163 games played Hughes got TWELVE HUNDRED minutes more TOI than Lafraniere... It's not crazy to say that if Laf had the opportunities/responsibility/PP time/1st line minutes Hughes was GIVEN (if he earned it then so did Laf) that we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.
I STILL think Laf will be a more valuable player than Hughes, with similar point totals, when all is said and done. I DO understand the impatience and disappointment, but in the end my bet is we are very happy we took him.

Well said. Common sense is hard for some posters here and definitely the coaching staff.

 

[bhamill]

in their rookie years laffy was playing with better players than did hughes and still did worse.

maybe a good idea to stop comparing laffy to hughes - hughes is a bonafide star who makes 10 mind blowing plays for every 1 decent laffy play.

question: would most people here be more than satisfied if laffy posts up these numbers onward starting next season?

23-24 79 GP 21 G 22 A 43 PTS
24-25 75 28 25 53
25-26 58 16 21 37
27-28 79 28 24 52

those numbers above belong to chris kreider from 2015-19.

Ummm.... Hughes played five games more, averaged 4 mins more per game and had the SAME point totals as Laf. D+1 Laf OUTSCORED D+1 Hughes 21 to 12 at even strength. How the hell did Laf do WORSE by any objective measure?
I don't care who they were playing with, we know Laf wasn't generally playing on the first two lines very much and no PP, but if you want to give a run down on all of their respective line mates that's cool.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Games aren't over with big leads. See the Edmonton game. And people on here are ridiculous with the PP ice time. The coach doesn't dictate when the change happens, the action on the ice does. Like last game when we were in the zone against a warn out PK, they clear it to the red line and we do a quick up to keep their PKers out there. Then our second PP we score. So all the donks scream that our PP1 ate up all the ice time. Agenda? hmm. When there is a faceoff in the middle of the PP then you can complain and Gallant keeps PP1 out then you can complain. I said you can. But you shouldn't. Because PP1 is the envy of the league and PP2 is an abomination.

PP1 routinely stars back behind their net well past the 1 min mark, has nothing to do with anything you're saying. The coach wants pp1 out there until they are tired because he doesn't like pp2.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Lol...Lacrosse goals

How about we start with a completed pass through some traffic/through the slot.

I had a pretty good seat at MSG for the game vs the Debs...we've talked about it in this thread before and once again, he had like 4-5 pass attempts that just got deflected away, hit off a shin pad or skate that he just couldn't get through to a teammate and killed the play/rush. it's not like they were crazy tight windows either, these are passes top6 players should be reaonably completing.

so fooking frustrating

 

[NickyFotiu]

Nothing wrong with flashy goals. They still count as goals and excite the fans.

 

[will1066]

Nothing wrong with flashy goals. They still count as goals and excite the fans.

It's just sour grapes.

 

[Daves a mess]

Might be the worst trade in Rangers history, and that's not an exaggeration

After Rick Middleton, I have Mike Ridley, Kelly Miller, and Bobby Crawford for washed up Bobby Carpenter and a 2nd Jason Prosofsky (Bust).

And Marc Savard went bananas after getting out from underneath icons like Mess and Wayne. I remember reading that Messier and Gretzky hated both Marc and Daniel Goneau.

 

[bhamill]

Nothing wrong with flashy goals. They still count as goals and excite the fans.

Yes and dont count any more than completely un flashy goals… It’s irrelevant to how GOOD a player is. But sure, I TOO, wish to be entertained.

 

[TGWL]

Because highlights don't equal actually playing hockey. This is the worst generation of hockey i swear. I've mentioned this before it's more soccer and lacrosse than hockey. Bunch of showboat actors.

Doing "the Michigan" isn't f***ing hockey.

Lafreniere isn't a flashy player. He's a throwback north-south player that picks up goals around the net and throws checks on the boards. He has hands and vision and all that. But none of that matters when you're castrated, benched, and punished every time his inexperience is visible.

You may hate it but those players produce. They skate and they make plays happen. The league is way too fast these days for players who don't want to be flashy and beat a handcuffed dman who is pokechecking because everything else will be a penalty against him. If you try to play a throwback game, you better have a lot more in your tank for when it doesn't work.

 

[bhamill]

You may hate it but those players produce. They skate and they make plays happen. The league is way too fast these days for players who don't want to be flashy and beat a handcuffed dman who is pokechecking because everything else will be a penalty against him. If you try to play a throwback game, you better have a lot more in your tank for when it doesn't work.

Most people don’t hate flashy players as long as they are effective. People hate merely being flashy being considered being better at hockey. Kreider is unflashy and scored 50+ last year. Flash is entertainment, it doesn’t make anyone a better hockey player. And people who fixate on flash are annoying. Hahah. Yes I’m old and grumpy!

 

[ReddestRum]

I think what most of us are saying is that flashier doesn't EQUAL better. I mean look at Kravtsov so far. I think Zegras is a legit 1st liner in the making and Hughes is an elite center in the making. I'd love either/both on this team. The problem is people look at them and say why don't Laf and Kakko look like that? And then declaring them busts on that basis and on not having the numbers, discounting the fact that Hughes and Zegras have been given opportunities our kids have not.
I posted a comparison of Laf's and Hughes' rookie seasons earlier:
Hughes had 21 points and was a minus 26 in 61 games with about 16 mins a game.
Laf had 21 points and was a minus 7 in 56 games getting about 12 minutes a game if that.
At even strength Laf outscored Hughes 21 to 12. Some one else noted that through their first 163 games played Hughes got TWELVE HUNDRED minutes more TOI than Lafraniere... It's not crazy to say that if Laf had the opportunities/responsibility/PP time/1st line minutes Hughes was GIVEN (if he earned it then so did Laf) that we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.
I STILL think Laf will be a more valuable player than Hughes, with similar point totals, when all is said and done. I DO understand the impatience and disappointment, but in the end my bet is we are very happy we took him.

I mean, I was responding to a poster that was saying flashy plays like the Michigan wasn't hockey, and calling flashy plays showboat hockey. Then they proceeded textually vomit why Laf was better and above all that. I mean, if that's the spouting shit "most of you" are saying, then please continue to die on that hill for my (and the rest of HF's) amusement. There's a difference between being a liability showboat and a superstar showboat, and the names associated with that particular posts are, right now, the NHL elite even in their young years. If the superstars are entertaining AND putting points on the board, who the f*** cares?

The lot of you can regurgitate over and over again that these players should have automatically jumped to Line 1 and PP1 in order for them to develop into the elite. I've said that these players don't have to put points on the board to make it there, but they have to show an aptitude to even play at that level, and to play opposite top lines around the NHL. Playing rudimentary hockey doesn't get you there. Not being able to back-check doesn't get you there. Not being able to finish doesn't get you there. Not being able to make a pass doesn't get you there. Most of you will follow this up by saying, "Well our top guys make mistakes.." I'll news flash, they're already top guys, have the most points, and can afford the mistakes that tenure (or scoring points) makes.

Do you honestly think that Laf deserves to continuously play on the top line, get top PP time, and log overall top times just so we, the fans, can scratch off some imaginary tick mark to say he's being developed? And if he isn't, we can just blame the staff? There's a lot f***ing more that goes into player development than the coaching staff and the first person in that developmental line is the player. 100% that the coaching staff plays a hand in development, but in the end the player is in control of their own. Superb junior hockey does not automatically equal NHL elite. I'm very patient in the development in our young players and I wouldn't be here bitching about their lack of production if their game had elevated (and you could see it) year after year.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

His goal against Detroit last season was the flashiest goal I’ve seen a Ranger score since Marek Malik lol. He definitely has it in him. He’s been neutered by coaching and stupid Rongoitis that has infested this organization for centuries.

 

[Irishguy42]

Dude probably should get a skating coach, IMO. Skates in mud a lot.

 

[bhamill]

I mean, I was responding to a poster that was saying flashy plays like the Michigan wasn't hockey, and calling flashy plays showboat hockey. Then they proceeded textually vomit why Laf was better and above all that. I mean, if that's the spouting shit "most of you" are saying, then please continue to die on that hill for my (and the rest of HF's) amusement. There's a difference between being a liability showboat and a superstar showboat, and the names associated with that particular posts are, right now, the NHL elite even in their young years. If the superstars are entertaining AND putting points on the board, who the f*** cares?

The lot of you can regurgitate over and over again that these players should have automatically jumped to Line 1 and PP1 in order for them to develop into the elite. I've said that these players don't have to put points on the board to make it there, but they have to show an aptitude to even play at that level, and to play opposite top lines around the NHL. Playing rudimentary hockey doesn't get you there. Not being able to back-check doesn't get you there. Not being able to finish doesn't get you there. Not being able to make a pass doesn't get you there. Most of you will follow this up by saying, "Well our top guys make mistakes.." I'll news flash, they're already top guys, have the most points, and can afford the mistakes that tenure (or scoring points) makes.

Do you honestly think that Laf deserves to continuously play on the top line, get top PP time, and log overall top times just so we, the fans, can scratch off some imaginary tick mark to say he's being developed? And if he isn't, we can just blame the staff? There's a lot f***ing more that goes into player development than the coaching staff and the first person in that developmental line is the player. 100% that the coaching staff plays a hand in development, but in the end the player is in control of their own. Superb junior hockey does not automatically equal NHL elite. I'm very patient in the development in our young players and I wouldn't be here bitching about their lack of production if their game had elevated (and you could see it) year after year.

All I implied about “deserving” was if Hughes deserved all that time, 16 mins a game his rookie year then more after, then so did Laf since he had a BETTER rookie year than Hughes. But of course Hughes wasn’t blocked by star vets.

Unlike a lot of posters, I’m not up in arms about Laf’s or Kakko’s numbers. I see them developing very nicely into COMPLETE players. And I maintain my belief that Laf will be a BETTER all around player than Hughes, with similar point production, when all is said and done. IMO if Laf got the first line time, the PP1 time, the 1200 extra minutes that Hughes got, deservedly or not in BOTH cases, we would not even be having this conversation. The difference in their development is opportunity and usage, not potential and talent.

 

[ReddestRum]

You may hate it but those players produce. They skate and they make plays happen. The league is way too fast these days for players who don't want to be flashy and beat a handcuffed dman who is pokechecking because everything else will be a penalty against him. If you try to play a throwback game, you better have a lot more in your tank for when it doesn't work.

Absolutely! Kreider is fast, but not flashy. I think he has a terrible pass with an alright shot. However, he makes up for it by having an insane hand-eye and strong net front presence. I agree that you can adapt in other ways to be successful.

 

[huerter]

Mason Mactavish is playing 3 less minutes per game than Ryan Strome. Someone should let them know about the Jack Hughes model.