Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[Crease]

Well, being on the top line lasted all of 2 1/2 games. Saw this coming a mile away.

To Gallants defense, Laf did not have a strong game last night. Giveaways, hesitation, passing when he should shoot.

Had he provided more they probably would've kept him and Kakko up with Mika.

But I still didn't like the line juggling, again.

Gallant is on the hot seat, which makes for a bad development coach.

 

[GENESISPuck94]

Posted this in the post-game...

14 minutes for Laf and Kakko. 0 PP1 minutes.

22 minutes for Hughes. 20 minutes for Bratt.

Gallant is the issue. Not Laf. Not Kakko. It's Gallant. Gallant had the 4th line out on the ice twice before the kids. He had the 4th line out after a fking commercial break.

Rangers managed to squeak a couple of wins together. Gallant is still a major MAJOR problem.

 

[McRanger92]

Posted this in the post-game...

14 minutes for Laf and Kakko. 0 PP1 minutes.

22 minutes for Hughes. 20 minutes for Bratt.

Gallant is the issue. Not Laf. Not Kakko. It's Gallant. Gallant had the 4th line out on the ice twice before the kids. He had the 4th line out after a fking commercial break.

Rangers managed to squeak a couple of wins together. Gallant is still a major MAJOR problem.

Gallant is definitely a problem but to be fair, Laf was terrible yesterday. Also Bratt did a whole lot of nothing with his 20 minutes. Hughes is just a freak, not looking forward to dealing with him for the next decade

 

[RUNYR]

Posted this in the post-game...

14 minutes for Laf and Kakko. 0 PP1 minutes.

22 minutes for Hughes. 20 minutes for Bratt.

Gallant is the issue. Not Laf. Not Kakko. It's Gallant. Gallant had the 4th line out on the ice twice before the kids. He had the 4th line out after a fking commercial break.

Rangers managed to squeak a couple of wins together. Gallant is still a major MAJOR problem.

Laf was horrible in his allocated ice time. I don’t get some of the comments here. It’s like Laf is performing so well in the opportunities he’s given that he deserves more ice time…which he’s not.

He’s not playing well in the time his coach is giving him so why should he deserve more?

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Laf was horrible in his allocated ice time. I don’t get some of the comments here. It’s like Laf is performing so well in the opportunities he’s given that he deserves more ice time…which he’s not.

He’s not playing well in the time his coach is giving him so why should he deserve more?

If players like Goodrow, Blais, Hunt or Vesey are in the top 6 for weeks on end and not really providing anything either whats worse for the future of this team? Do they deserve more?

I get it. He wasnt great.

But a week ago he went 2-1-3 +4 with some big goals for this team. This is what you deal with when you want to cultivate a young talent. Its apparent that this isnt a priority and that is the issue.

My hope is they go back to the lines against the Leafs that started against the Devils, Vegas and Colorado - to show some trust and confidence. Very doubtful that happens

 

[duhmetreE]

Hughes looked better because of what he was able to do on the PP. His production at even strength is lower than Lafrenière through their first 163 games.







Is this breakdown relevant? I'd say so considering the lack of PP time Lafrenière gets. The only fair comparison is 5v5 numbers.

Here's their PP-time per game in that same span:

Nugent-Hopkins: 3:05
McDavid: 3:02
Hughes: 2:57
Hall: 2:56
MacKinnon: 2:30
Hischier: 2:25
Matthews: 2:22
Lafrenière: 1:13

Also consider linemates. I feel it's a safe assumption if he was stapled to the top6, the numbers would be higher as well.

Has Jack Hughes ever been on his teams 3rd line?

 

[ReddestRum]

Posted this in the post-game...

14 minutes for Laf and Kakko. 0 PP1 minutes.

22 minutes for Hughes. 20 minutes for Bratt.

Gallant is the issue. Not Laf. Not Kakko. It's Gallant. Gallant had the 4th line out on the ice twice before the kids. He had the 4th line out after a fking commercial break.

Rangers managed to squeak a couple of wins together. Gallant is still a major MAJOR problem.

Kakko had a goal, Laf had nothing, and our PP scored. We didn't have one after that goal. Our PP looked great last night, and Laf looked nothing close to being noticeable.

22 minutes for a dude that basically skated circles around us last night, where the only one that could handle him was Shesty. 20 minutes for a guy that almost put up 80 points last season and is scoring more than a point per game this one. This is not the flex you thought it would be.

The coach has to match lines and sometimes play this game of chess. Sometimes that means putting the 4th line out there to get the next up some rest or to stall when he knows he needs to wait to match the next line the opponent puts out there. I know GG is shit out there, but if you have four lines and the other team has four lines, you have to play four lines and try to out-match the other guy.

If you put Hughes on a 3rd line, who is going to be the focus of that line? Who is going to be the leader out there on the ice? This is why those kinds of guys can play anywhere. They are the leaders.

 

[Machinehead]

Posted this in the post-game...

14 minutes for Laf and Kakko. 0 PP1 minutes.

22 minutes for Hughes. 20 minutes for Bratt.

Gallant is the issue. Not Laf. Not Kakko. It's Gallant. Gallant had the 4th line out on the ice twice before the kids. He had the 4th line out after a fking commercial break.

Rangers managed to squeak a couple of wins together. Gallant is still a major MAJOR problem.

We said the same thing verbatim about Quinn. At what point is it the organization?

 

[Psycho for Perreault]

Kakko had a goal, Laf had nothing, and our PP scored. We didn't have one after that goal. Our PP looked great last night, and Laf looked nothing close to being noticeable.

22 minutes for a dude that basically skated circles around us last night, where the only one that could handle him was Shesty. 20 minutes for a guy that almost put up 80 points last season and is scoring more than a point per game this one. This is not the flex you thought it would be.

The coach has to match lines and sometimes play this game of chess. Sometimes that means putting the 4th line out there to get the next up some rest or to stall when he knows he needs to wait to match the next line the opponent puts out there. I know GG is shit out there, but if you have four lines and the other team has four lines, you have to play four lines and try to out-match the other guy.

If you put Hughes on a 3rd line, who is going to be the focus of that line? Who is going to be the leader out there on the ice? This is why those kinds of guys can play anywhere. They are the leaders.

Hughes has always got minutes. He was allowed to grow and improve. Take his lumps. We haven't allowed our kids to do that. Even today we demote them in the middle of a 3 game winning streak because Trouba was bad. This is not the flex you thought it would be.

 

[Psycho for Perreault]

We said the same thing verbatim about Quinn. At what point is it the organization?

It is 100% an organization problem. The Rangers remind me of the Giants of the last decade. They need an entire change in the way they think. This is a top down problem.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Kakko had a goal, Laf had nothing, and our PP scored. We didn't have one after that goal. Our PP looked great last night, and Laf looked nothing close to being noticeable.

22 minutes for a dude that basically skated circles around us last night, where the only one that could handle him was Shesty. 20 minutes for a guy that almost put up 80 points last season and is scoring more than a point per game this one. This is not the flex you thought it would be.

The coach has to match lines and sometimes play this game of chess. Sometimes that means putting the 4th line out there to get the next up some rest or to stall when he knows he needs to wait to match the next line the opponent puts out there. I know GG is shit out there, but if you have four lines and the other team has four lines, you have to play four lines and try to out-match the other guy.

If you put Hughes on a 3rd line, who is going to be the focus of that line? Who is going to be the leader out there on the ice? This is why those kinds of guys can play anywhere. They are the leaders.

Tbh as someone who watches quite a few devils games, that was one of Hughes’s worst games of the season. He usually looks way better, he caused a few turnovers and was more sloppy than usual. Fell down more than usual too. He normally looks more like McDavid-lite

 

[ReddestRum]

Hughes has always got minutes. He was allowed to grow and improve. Take his lumps. We haven't allowed our kids to do that. Even today we demote them in the middle of a 3 game winning streak because Trouba was bad. This is not the flex you thought it would be.

This is because Hughes got drafted onto a shit team, but as a young player he still had to stand out out to push for being elite with a shit team around him. THAT'S the difference between a Hughes and a Laf. Some players can make it work with whatever they're given. They take the opportunity and shine with it. Meanwhile, in order for Laf to elevate his game we have to put him with the best players, give him the most minutes, and force-feed him PP1 minutes. This is why it's difficult for me to push the bulk of the blame for a player's development onto people who aren't that player. These are adult hockey players and the most that can be done sans actually playing for them is to guide them in the right direction, but ultimately it's up to the player to do the rest with whatever time he has on the ice. When Panarin or Zibs is having an off several games, we (and I) blame them for having bad games, but somehow when Laf is utterly shit out there, people want to coddle him... blame the organization... get mad because he sits an extra shift for a terrible backcheck or passing when he should be shooting if he's in the slot... and then whine, cry, and carry on to feed him undeserving minutes. My flex is that I'm not a hypocrite.

We have strung some wins together for a streak, but we are still in disarray as a team. The lines seem to switch every, single night. In the last three games or so, Kakko and Fil have stood out the most.

 

[Ruggs225]

We said the same thing verbatim about Quinn. At what point is it the organization?

It is the organization. But the org doesnt tell gallant who to play each shift. That is coaching staff.

There is a reason why gallant was let go quickly from Vegas and Fla… we are seeing it now.

I have no faith in him to win or to develop our talent.

none.

Quinn was a micro manager, gallant lets the players un amok. U need someone in the middle.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Gallant is definitely a problem but to be fair, Laf was terrible yesterday. Also Bratt did a whole lot of nothing with his 20 minutes. Hughes is just a freak, not looking forward to dealing with him for the next decade

So what, the reason Hughes is good now is because he wasnt demoted after a bad game, it's called development, something this franchise refuses to do with Laf Kakko, and especially Kravtsov and Jones.

 

[ReddestRum]

Tbh as someone who watches quite a few devils games, that was one of Hughes’s worst games of the season. He usually looks way better, he caused a few turnovers and was more sloppy than usual. Fell down more than usual too. He normally looks more like McDavid-lite

Hockey gods were with us last night making Shesty look like Stretch Armstrong. Hughes could have buried us after scoring to make it 3-1. Could have made it 4-1, but we got a little lucky. At least we didn't quit. He's got 8 points in his last 5 and on his way to 40. I would mind having our 21 year olds with those numbers.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

This is because Hughes got drafted onto a shit team, but as a young player he still had to stand out out to push for being elite with a shit team around him. THAT'S the difference between a Hughes and a Laf. Some players can make it work with whatever they're given. They take the opportunity and shine with it. Meanwhile, in order for Laf to elevate his game we have to put him with the best players, give him the most minutes, and force-feed him PP1 minutes. This is why it's difficult for me to push the bulk of the blame for a player's development onto people who aren't that player. These are adult hockey players and the most that can be done sans actually playing for them is to guide them in the right direction, but ultimately it's up to the player to do the rest with whatever time he has on the ice. When Panarin or Zibs is having an off several games, we (and I) blame them for having bad games, but somehow when Laf is utterly shit out there, people want to coddle him... blame the organization... get mad because he sits an extra shift for a terrible backcheck or passing when he should be shooting if he's in the slot... and then whine, cry, and carry on to feed him undeserving minutes. My flex is that I'm not a hypocrite.

We have strung some wins together for a streak, but we are still in disarray as a team. The lines seem to switch every, single night. In the last three games or so, Kakko and Fil have stood out the most.

When Panarin and Zibs have off games or weeks they don't get demoted they are given time to figure things out, see the difference? The team refuses to do whats best for the kids and whats best for the team and get the kids developed quickly. This team will never win a cup without Lafreniere, Chytil, Kakko all being real contributers to it.

 

[Crease]

The kids are clearly being held to a different standard than journeymen vets like Goodrow, Vesey, and Blais. Weeks on end in the top six without production is fine for the latter. Two games without production for the kids and its back to the bottom six for them. It's a problem.

 

[EdJovanovski]

The kids are clearly being held to a different standard than journeymen vets like Goodrow, Vesey, and Blais. Weeks on end in the top six without production is fine for the latter. Two games without production for the kids and its back to the bottom six for them. It's a problem.

Is Blais really a vet if he’s been injured 75% of his career? Man what a terrible trade that was. Buch having more goals since the trade than Blais has SHOTS is f***ing ridiculous

 

[ReddestRum]

When Panarin and Zibs have off games or weeks they don't get demoted they are given time to figure things out, see the difference? The team refuses to do whats best for the kids and whats best for the team and get the kids developed quickly. This team will never win a cup without Lafreniere, Chytil, Kakko all being real contributers to it.

Have you ever played organizational hockey??? Of course they're not going to get demoted. Tenure means something in hockey. Vet status is a thing, especially when those vets are #1 and #2 in points on the team. Any coach that benchers their top scorers, top paid players, in lieu of unproven young players no matter how the damn season is going is going to have a very long talk with that team's owner before being thrown out the door.

 

[McRanger92]

So what, the reason Hughes is good now is because he wasnt demoted after a bad game, it's called development, something this franchise refuses to do with Laf Kakko, and especially Kravtsov and Jones.

I'm not giving Gallant a pass (I still want him fired) but I also could not care less about how other teams develop their players. The Devils, or whoever else, situation was entirely different from the one our guys were drafted into.

This isnt directed at you, but its not lost on me that the perpetual rebuild/development folks are the most impatient when it comes to how our kids are progressing. Everyone wants to crown the Devils (who are already showing their warts) and its not even Christmas. Whereas over here with the Rangers, wins only count if the analytics back it up for some reason, and every loss means we should rebuild. It's tiresome.

Our kids look pretty damn good so my opinion is to enjoy that and not be jealous of one of the most unsuccessful franchises of the last decade

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

The kids are clearly being held to a different standard than journeymen vets like Goodrow, Vesey, and Blais. Weeks on end in the top six without production is fine for the latter. Two games without production for the kids and its back to the bottom six for them. It's a problem.

And this is essentially what the "whiners" are talking about.

The coaching staff will live with Goodrow being horrible with Bread, giving away pucks, getting outskated, making dumb decisions with the puck. And then he makes one good pass for an assist or gets gifted a goal and he sticks on the line for 2 weeks.

Personally I'd rather live with the growing pains of a homegrown 19-20-21 year old who we waited 90+ years to draft in that position, to see him grow in a better position to succeed in a consistent manner, but that's just me.

 

[mas0764]

We said the same thing verbatim about Quinn. At what point is it the organization?

Think it's both. And to a degree "the coach" refers to all the coaches and staff in the org who are in charge of development. I agree, though, clean house.

 

[ReddestRum]

I'm not giving Gallant a pass (I still want him fired) but I also could not care less about how other teams develop their players. The Devils, or whoever else, situation was entirely different from the one our guys were drafted into.

This isnt directed at you, but its not lost on me that the perpetual rebuild/development folks are the most impatient when it comes to how our kids are progressing. Everyone wants to crown the Devils (who are already showing their warts) and its not even Christmas. Whereas over here with the Rangers, wins only count if the analytics back it up for some reason, and every loss means we should rebuild. It's tiresome.

Our kids look pretty damn good so my opinion is to enjoy that and not be jealous of one of the most unsuccessful franchises of the last decade

This is what it boils down to. Our young talent getting drafted onto a good, top-heavy team in their starter years. Making the SCF was possibly, IMO, one of the worst things that could've happened in terms of "development", because GG is now expected to push for that again. We didn't pay top dollar for some of these players for the team to be in a rebuild for 5-10 years. Other teams have the luxury of sucking and being able to rebuild how they want and play who they want. We're in a very tough spot and the next three years for us is going to be interesting in terms of the roster.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Development is on the player too. Be noticeable, play like you give a shit, attempt to make a play every once in a while and you'll get more ice time. Kakko kills penalties, he's out there in OT. As was Chytil. Laff doesn't get that ice time because he doesn't deserve it at the moment.

 

[SA16]

Hughes has always got minutes. He was allowed to grow and improve. Take his lumps. We haven't allowed our kids to do that. Even today we demote them in the middle of a 3 game winning streak because Trouba was bad. This is not the flex you thought it would be.

Not true at all. Hughes played 15:52 his rookie year. 9th on the team among forwards in 5v5 TOI. He was a third liner with PP time. He started getting minutes the next year.

You guys make it sound like it's impossible to produce in lesser roles. Plenty of guys do it. Besides the production isn't even the issue. It's the play on the ice. If Laf got 3 mins more per game he'd suddenly be stealing the puck like Hughes and getting breakaways that lead to penalty shots? Hughes may not have produced early but he generated chances and you could see ability. What does Laf do on the ice that is impressive? He makes the occasional good pass and half the board acts like it was some amazing. He gets an assist a few games back by getting a puck on the boards and passing it back to the point and we're told it's a great play and signs of the future. The only real great play I can even remember him making was the goal against Detroit last year.