Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[NickyFotiu]

100%.

While Trocheck does have a role on the team and is useful for his puck carries, he is a fifth wheel on that powerplay and it shows. He serves no purpose from that spot which I will derisively call the "half point" at the very high slot. He's not going to score from there, he doesn't take checking pressure off anyone, and the team would be a hell of a lot stronger with someone left handed who can shoot off the pass from the RW half boards instead.

If Laffy got Tro's PP time and Trocheck moved to center the 2nd PP (with Chytil moving to RW, Kakko moving to the slot/LW, and Trouba being the one-time option from the left point), both units would be stronger IMO.

Doesn't GG prefer to have 2 centers on the PP?

 

[Rangers in 7]

Doesn't GG prefer to have 2 centers on the PP?

GG also prefers goodrow in the top 6 so who knows

 

[NickyFotiu]

GG also prefers goodrow in the top 6 so who knows

Doesn't Trocheck usually take the faceoffs?

 

[huerter]

Good idea, move the 11.5 mil player who thrives with time and space into the middle of the ice where he's neutered.

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

Here's a question. Some of you are saying put Laf in Trocheck's spot on #1, however, do you see anything in Laf's physical play that warrants him in that spot? Laf doesn't really fight for lose pucks, and the half-boards are kind of his enemy. If you put him in Trocheck's spot, he's going to get bullied to death. Honestly, I think Kakko is eons stronger than Laf. Anyone see KK take that hit in the middle of the ice in the O-zone and a Vegas player bounce right off of him?

I'd take Kakko there in a heartbeat, too. I just want to see the kids get chances to pick up points and add to their confidence.

When PP1 is moving around the ice and moving the puck, they could probably find a way to get even Blais some looks (note: I am certainly NOT advocating for this), and I think Trocheck's production on PP1 has been as much his ability to win faceoffs and just generally be on the ice when good things are happening, as much as anything else.

I just don't think having a 4th right handed shot on the ice who is almost never open for an uncontested one timer, who hangs far away from the net, isn't used as a bumper, and who is not frequently a viable passing option, adds much.

 

[SA16]

I'd take Kakko there in a heartbeat, too. I just want to see the kids get chances to pick up points and add to their confidence.

When PP1 is moving around the ice and moving the puck, they could probably find a way to get even Blais some looks (note: I am certainly NOT advocating for this), and I think Trocheck's production on PP1 has been as much his ability to win faceoffs and just generally be on the ice when good things are happening, as much as anything else.

I just don't think having a 4th right handed shot on the ice who is almost never open for an uncontested one timer, who hangs far away from the net, isn't used as a bumper, and who is not frequently a viable passing option, adds much.

Just wondering how the player who is 12th in the league in PP shot attempts and 6th in PP high danger chances is not frequently a viable passing option?

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

Just wondering how the player who is 12th in the league in PP shot attempts and 6th in PP high danger chances is not frequently a viable passing option?

Since both of those are counting stats, have to consider he's 8th in the league in PP ice time.

PP HDCF I don't really think captures value on the PP because of how it underestimates the viability of longer shots on the PP through screens. Kreider leads the world in in it right now. Zibanejad has 8 with 10 goals. Stamkos has 6. Cale Makar has 0.

While Trocheck is near useless setting up where he does, and rarely generates offense (or shots for that matter) from there, he is capable of collapsing to the net after a shot and getting rebounds, which pad that particular stat. If anything, if there's an insistence on keeping him in that role cuz faceoffs, then I'd rather see him closer to the net than hanging at the high slot almost at the point where he hasn't scored a goal all year. But given the importance of the kids to our future, I'd rather see a lefty shot along the RW half wall who can be an option to shoot off the pass to create an alternative to Zibanejad to prevent teams from cheating towards coverage on the left side of the ice.

 

[SA16]

Since both of those are counting stats, have to consider he's 8th in the league in PP ice time.

PP HDCF I don't really think captures value on the PP because of how it underestimates the viability of longer shots on the PP through screens. Kreider leads the world in in it right now. Zibanejad has 8 with 10 goals. Stamkos has 6. Cale Makar has 0.

While Trocheck is near useless setting up where he does, and rarely generates offense (or shots for that matter) from there, he is capable of collapsing to the net after a shot and getting rebounds, which pad that particular stat. If anything, if there's an insistence on keeping him in that role cuz faceoffs, then I'd rather see him closer to the net than hanging at the high slot almost at the point where he hasn't scored a goal all year. But given the importance of the kids to our future, I'd rather see a lefty shot along the RW half wall who can be an option to shoot off the pass to create an alternative to Zibanejad to prevent teams from cheating towards coverage on the left side of the ice.

So you want to put a lefty on the right wall and then ruin the cross ice pass to Zibanejad who is close to, if not the, best pp scorer in the league from that spot. And then Panarin is going where exactly? This “chest coverage” thing is a totally made up phenomenon. He has 10 PPG mostly from that spot. If they’re cheating coverage it’s not working. It’s just something people to say as a made up argument as a reason why someone younger should have a role on the pp

 

[huerter]

If people want to talk about the changes they would make to the PP, let them. It just exposes the fact that they have an agenda. DA YOUTH!

 

[ReddestRum]

Some people would play the kids on all lines and only the kids if they could.

 

[huerter]

They lie to themselves and say "if we play the youth, I'll live with the growing pains". They'll be the most miserable amidst the growing pains. Don't be fooled.

 

[Rangers in 7]

Doesn't Trocheck usually take the faceoffs?

Yes because zib couldn’t win a face off if his life depended on it

 

[QJL]

I don’t think people advocating for Lafreniere replacing Trocheck on PP1 really understand the dynamics of our power play.

Zibanejad is a shooter on the left side. Fox is primarily a feeder and sometimes a shooter. Panarin is the primary feeder. Trocheck is a righty shooter.

If our playmaker is on the right side of the ice, you want players with a righty shot in shooting positions. As Panarin looks across, Trocheck is a threat to score. A lefty is not.

If Zibanejad didn’t exist and Panarin was feeding from his natural side on the left, it would be advantageous to have Lafeniere or Kakko in the bumper positions.
Putting Lafreniere in that bumper spot with the dynamics of our power play is a bad hockey move and will make us less effective. It has nothing to do with the quality of the player, it’s just our strategy playing to the strengths of Zibanejad and Panarin.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

I don’t think people advocating for Lafreniere replacing Trocheck on PP1 really understand the dynamics of our power play.

Zibanejad is a shooter on the left side. Fox is primarily a feeder and sometimes a shooter. Panarin is the primary feeder. Trocheck is a righty shooter.

If our playmaker is on the right side of the ice, you want players with a righty shot in shooting positions. As Panarin looks across, Trocheck is a threat to score. A lefty is not.

If Zibanejad didn’t exist and Panarin was feeding from his natural side on the left, it would be advantageous to have Lafeniere or Kakko in the bumper positions.
Putting Lafreniere in that bumper spot with the dynamics of our power play is a bad hockey move and will make us less effective. It has nothing to do with the quality of the player, it’s just our strategy playing to the strengths of Zibanejad and Panarin.

Panarin -> Trochek never works though. And Panarin shouldn't be on the right where he's only a passer and not a shooting option. Aside from faceoffs Trochek does nothing on the PP. Panarin has like 2 options, accross to Zib (which teams are taking away now bc they're not stupid) or back up to Fox.

Kreider actually has been pretty useless on the PP this season but they won't remove him in a million years.

 

[QJL]

Panarin -> Trochek never works though. And Panarin shouldn't be on the right where he's only a passer and not a shooting option. Aside from faceoffs Trochek does nothing on the PP. Panarin has like 2 options, accross to Zib (which teams are taking away now bc they're not stupid) or back up to Fox.

Kreider actually has been pretty useless on the PP this season but they won't remove him in a million years.

It’s not about Panarin > Trocheck working it’s about Trocheck being a potential shooter vs not. His primary job is to shift up and down from bumper to net front to create space for the 3 perimeter players. He can create space when the cycle starts at Panarin because he’s a threat to shoot if he’s left open. A lefty wouldn’t be played as tight when the puck is on the right side because they aren’t able to shoot quickly away from that spot.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

It’s not about Panarin > Trocheck working it’s about Trocheck being a potential shooter vs not. His primary job is to shift up and down from bumper to net front to create space for the 3 perimeter players. He can create space when the cycle starts at Panarin because he’s a threat to shoot if he’s left open. A lefty wouldn’t be played as tight when the puck is on the right side because they aren’t able to shoot quickly away from that spot.

tbh Zib should be in the bumper, Panarin on the left and a lhs on the right wall.

 

[ReddestRum]

They won't change the PP1 because that's the business of hockey. No coach survives benching a 5-11 million dollar vet on the PP that makes up the 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 point ranking on this team for an unproven young player. Something like this only happens when you're 21 or under currently is if your last name is the likes of a Zegras, Hughes, Stutzle, or Raymond, to name a few. Those players have proven that they can be star players, leaders, and can score both on and off the PP.

 

[QJL]

tbh Zib should be in the bumper, Panarin on the left and a lhs on the right wall.

The only player in the league who has scored more PP goals than Zibanejad since since 2019 is Leon Draisaitl. I can’t fathom moving one of the the best PP goal scorers in the league away from the spot he scores all his goals from. That’s definitely not the solution.

You may recall we actually tried Panarin on the left and Zibanejad in the bumper to start last season. It did not work so they flipped things back.

The only players with more PP assists than Panarin since 2019 are McDavid, Draisaitl, and Huberdeau. He’s doing just fine over there.

We had a bit of a rough stretch but I wouldn’t blow up years worth of consistent success.

The PP units are as they should be (minus Trouba on PP2). The time allotment is a big problem. All our PP1 guys are top 10 in the league in PP minutes. We need better balance there and more opportunity for Lafreniere, Kakko, and Chytil that way.

 

[GENESISPuck94]

They won't change the PP1 because that's the business of hockey. No coach survives benching a 5-11 million dollar vet on the PP that makes up the 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 point ranking on this team for an unproven young player. Something like this only happens when you're 21 or under currently is if your last name is the likes of a Zegras, Hughes, Stutzle, or Raymond, to name a few. Those players have proven that they can be star players, leaders, and can score both on and off the PP.

"Proven to be stars" by being spoonfed, or more accurately having ice time rammed down their throats, in every situation.

Lafreniere (and Kakko) haven't had half the opportunities these other guys had.

Hughes was being force-fed 19+ minutes as a 19 year old. As a 20 year old Hughes scored 26 goals... 6 on the PP. Lafreniere scored 19 goals all at EV while getting f***ing 13 minutes. Hughes with 6 more minutes per game only scored 1 more EV goal than Laf.

The huge difference here between all these guys and ours is a dumbshit coach refusing to give our guys the ice time and PP time.

 

[SA16]

The only player in the league who has scored more PP goals than Zibanejad since since 2019 is Leon Draisaitl. I can’t fathom moving one of the the best PP goal scorers in the league away from the spot he scores all his goals from. That’s definitely not the solution.

You may recall we actually tried Panarin on the left and Zibanejad in the bumper to start last season. It did not work so they flipped things back.

The only players with more PP assists than Panarin since 2019 are McDavid, Draisaitl, and Huberdeau. He’s doing just fine over there.

We had a bit of a rough stretch but I wouldn’t blow up years worth of consistent success.

The PP units are as they should be (minus Trouba on PP2). The time allotment is a big problem. All our PP1 guys are top 10 in the league in PP minutes. We need better balance there and more opportunity for Lafreniere, Kakko, and Chytil that way.

I don’t think it’s the time allotment in general. The allotment is good. It’s a good unit with some of the best pp scorers in the league and should get almost the full two minutes.

However, in situations where the game is out of hand it would be nice to see Laf/Kakko/Chytil actually be used as the top unit, ideally with Fox since Trouba will just shoot. 3 goal games in the third period and such.

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

I don’t think people advocating for Lafreniere replacing Trocheck on PP1 really understand the dynamics of our power play.

Zibanejad is a shooter on the left side. Fox is primarily a feeder and sometimes a shooter. Panarin is the primary feeder. Trocheck is a righty shooter.

If our playmaker is on the right side of the ice, you want players with a righty shot in shooting positions. As Panarin looks across, Trocheck is a threat to score. A lefty is not.

If Zibanejad didn’t exist and Panarin was feeding from his natural side on the left, it would be advantageous to have Lafeniere or Kakko in the bumper positions.
Putting Lafreniere in that bumper spot with the dynamics of our power play is a bad hockey move and will make us less effective. It has nothing to do with the quality of the player, it’s just our strategy playing to the strengths of Zibanejad and Panarin.

If Panarin goes to the left point, he is a shooting option, a passing option to Zibanejad, and a passing option to the lefty on the RW half wall. Fox remains a shooting option from the RW on the half wall, and also retains passing lanes to Zibanejad and Panarin. It also gives Zibanejad and Fox a passing option to the lefty RW on the half wall.

IMO it gives all of our players more options and retains Zibanejad as a threat from his favorite spot. If you look at how Tampa's PP is built, this is basically it. Stamkos is the primary shooter from the LW top of circle but if teams start cheating on that, Kucherov can do the same thing from the right side.

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

Some people would play the kids on all lines and only the kids if they could.

Disagree, but the kids are a key part of this team's future, and need to be integrated with the talent the team has, not quarantined to their own lines where they have to produce and figure it out themselves.

The most encouraging part of 13-93-24 is watching Zibanejad talk to them between whistles and the kids eating it up like a sponge. That's going to do more for their development than throwing them out for 30 seconds at the end of a PP where they have to "figure it out" themselves and there's a 50% chance that only two of the kids are on the ice and have to play with Sammy Blais.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

The obvious miss on the pp is Trochek and he's there because it justifies Drury's signing. If he was a lifelong Ranger he wouldn't be near the pp. Lafreniere should be given a stretch on that pp in Strome's old spot, not like one or 2 pp's like leave him there til the deadline and see how it works. Trochek in the Zib spot on pp2 makes more sense, no trouba, add Miller.

 

[DanielBrassard]

If Panarin goes to the left point, he is a shooting option, a passing option to Zibanejad, and a passing option to the lefty on the RW half wall. Fox remains a shooting option from the RW on the half wall, and also retains passing lanes to Zibanejad and Panarin. It also gives Zibanejad and Fox a passing option to the lefty RW on the half wall.

IMO it gives all of our players more options and retains Zibanejad as a threat from his favorite spot. If you look at how Tampa's PP is built, this is basically it. Stamkos is the primary shooter from the LW top of circle but if teams start cheating on that, Kucherov can do the same thing from the right side.

Unfortunately we don't have a LH shooter who is particularly effective at making plays and shooting off the pass like Kucherov so things wouldnt work out so well with that setup at the moment.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Unfortunately we don't have a LH shooter who is particularly effective at making plays and shooting off the pass like Kucherov so things wouldnt work out so well with that setup at the moment.

I can think of someone