Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[xsniper11x]

Laffy is just bad. There isnt any particular thing he is good at. His shot is the only thing that isnt awful. His passing a terrible. His skating is slow. Zero IQ. Doesnt win any board battles. Doesnt do anything with the puck. He looks like he should be the one being scratched many nights. Gauthier is playing way better than him and hes the one that gets scratched at times this season? For Laffys sake, he needs to go to a bottom dweller team and play or go to the AHL. Hes a boy playing amongst men. I feel bad for the kid but its not helping his case to just be in the NHL due to his draft status.

That’s what it looks like when a player used to taking risks and being a game breaker views himself as a support player trying not to not screw up. You can tell he wants to make plays. He still makes a few nice poised passing plays each game, but the confidence in his own game, and more importantly, place on the team isn’t firm enough to make those plays consistently. That combined w/ lacking the strength to play a “mans” style game to compensate for lackluster speed gets you a whole lot of nothing.

Contrast those concerns with a struggling vet like Panarin. No matter how many backhand passes thru the slot don’t work, he will continue to force them. Cause he knows his game and he knows there aren’t repercussions for playing it. That’s the difference bt a player who has skill but his discomfort taking risk results in little of note, and a player who is perfectly comfortable taking risks that 80% of the time fail, but occasionally lead to something impressive.

 

[ReddestRum]

That’s what it looks like when a player used to taking risks and being a game breaker views himself as a support player trying not to not screw up. You can tell he wants to make plays. He still makes a few nice poised passing plays each game, but the confidence in his own game, and more importantly, place on the team isn’t firm enough to make those plays consistently. That combined w/ lacking the strength to play a “mans” style game to compensate for lackluster speed gets you a whole lot of nothing.

Contrast those concerns with a struggling vet like Panarin. No matter how many backhand passes thru the slot don’t work, he will continue to force them. Cause he knows his game and he knows there aren’t repercussions for playing it. That’s the difference bt a player who has skill but his discomfort taking risk results in little of note, and a player who is perfectly comfortable taking risks that 80% of the time fail, but occasionally lead to something impressive.

Why is everyone else allowed to hold onto the puck to try and make plays, but some of you guys have it in your head that if Laf makes a mistake that he's going to be benched. He made a few mistakes tonight and still played his minutes. There are other players out there with supposedly worse skill than Laf out there trying to make plays, but it's okay for them to do it but not Laf?

Like I said, management has their part to play in his inevitable demise if he stays on this course, but to say that he's not allowed to take risks, be creative, and make plays because the coaching staff is holding benching him over his head is a bit much. I don't know why it's only Laf that's somehow not able to take risks but Kakko is out there trying to dance his way to a play.

The reason why I think he doesn't take risks is because he just seems like he doesn't know what to do. Once in awhile his IQ is fine, but most of the time he's late to the play, fails to win board plays (yet smaller Kakko seems to), and he's rarely in the right place on the ice to make a play or contribute.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Honestly he looks defeated, like the team has finally taken the energy out of him.

 

[ajdj10]

I’ve said it before but it’s worth repeating after tonight. It looks like he skipped his entire prime and went straight to late stage Brad Richards.

It looks like he just started playing hockey.

 

[mas0764]

Honestly he looks defeated, like the team has finally taken the energy out of him.

He looks like he’s getting zero support from the coaching staff. Which is probably true.

He looked better last year. Now he looks defeated and out of ideas.

A 21 year old kid doesn’t decline in skills. He’s lost in whatever it is we are doing, and no one is around to fix it.

The administration has failed the rebuild if it can’t figure out how to turn Laf into a star because it’s too busy focusing on how it’s going to keep Kreider and Trouba happy.

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

Laf looks afraid to try to make scorer's moves. When's the last time you saw him dip the shoulder and drive the net, or wind up for a big one timer? He's playing like a grinder.

Same thing with Kakko. Ever since he got moved off the line with 20/93, he's not ragging the puck around the ice anymore...he's playing timid along the wall and allowing defenders to get body position while reaching for the puck during board battles again.

That to me indicates no confidence.

 

[GENESISPuck94]

I just don’t know what it’s gonna take to get this kid and Kakko going.

I think they never should have signed Trochek and Laf-Chytil-Kakko should have been the second line.

It'll take more than 12 minutes per game to get them going.

How are players supposed to develop into stars while playing 12 minutes and no PP1 time.

What's more is how the f*** is the front office OK with how they're being handled? Complete joke of a hockey franchise.

 

[haohmaru]

That just highlights how bad the team is.

Or how bad your "3rd line PP specialist" take is. Maybe both.

 

[xsniper11x]

Why is everyone else allowed to hold onto the puck to try and make plays, but some of you guys have it in your head that if Laf makes a mistake that he's going to be benched. He made a few mistakes tonight and still played his minutes. There are other players out there with supposedly worse skill than Laf out there trying to make plays, but it's okay for them to do it but not Laf?

Like I said, management has their part to play in his inevitable demise if he stays on this course, but to say that he's not allowed to take risks, be creative, and make plays because the coaching staff is holding benching him over his head is a bit much. I don't know why it's only Laf that's somehow not able to take risks but Kakko is out there trying to dance his way to a play.

The reason why I think he doesn't take risks is because he just seems like he doesn't know what to do. Once in awhile his IQ is fine, but most of the time he's late to the play, fails to win board plays (yet smaller Kakko seems to), and he's rarely in the right place on the ice to make a play or contribute.

To be clear, I wasn’t talking about ice time, I’m talking about their place on the team. Laf is not “the guy” and nothing about the current roster says he will be anytime soon. He’s in a support role, probably for the first time in his life. The offense isn’t going to live or die based on his play. That will affect how you approach the game and will alter your confidence. Play a simpler game, don’t take major risks, don’t let the team down. Kind of how you see most support style players play.

This isn’t new, we’ve see this dynamic occur with star players and veterans, never mind 20y olds. We’ve literally done it with our defenseman for years. Sometimes players rise to the occasion and hit the next level, and other times they end up over their head. I just want to start doing what every other team in history has down with lottery level talent. Put them in positions to succeed vs asking them to do play roles they never have.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Or how bad your "3rd line PP specialist" take is. Maybe both.

Looking at just goals is a pretty flawed approach to compare offensive output. Assists exist

 

[haohmaru]

Looking at just goals is a pretty flawed approach to compare offensive output. Assists exist

He leads all forwards in CF%. That exists too. 3rd in shots. 3rd in OPS. 2nd in even strength Fenwick. 1st in E +/-.

But, yeah, 3rd liner. PP specialist. Got it.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I’m just tired of the goal posts being moved.

I was one of a few people here that voiced concern from the outset. There were many here who were trying to gas light their way out of the consensus pre-draft opinion that he would be a 60 point scorer immediately, going so far as to ignore video evidence of multiple pundits and scouts saying just that.

Then it became preaching patience, and the fact that he doesn’t get PP time.

Now he’s just on a long development curve.

It’s ok for late picks to be on long curves. It’s ok for top picks to be on long curves too, as long as their curve starts at a pretty high level (see Hischier).

I’ve repeatedly asked the people who are not concerned about Laf to pick a point in the future when they expect him to start making an impact. In 202X, I expect Laf will be an XX point player.

202X keeps getting higher while XX keeps getting lower.

I was concerned during his first 1.5 seasons. I'm not now. He does have to produce but skills wise I'm seeing more.

 

[mike14]

It'll take more than 12 minutes per game to get them going.

How are players supposed to develop into stars while playing 12 minutes and no PP1 time.

What's more is how the f*** is the front office OK with how they're being handled? Complete joke of a hockey franchise.

But he's regularly getting more than 12 mins (as in 15+), and his slight drop in ice-time from game 15 onwards was due to him doing SFA on the ice with the time he had.
Even wit that drop he's 3rd among fwds for EV ice time and 6th (KK has just overtaken him) for overall among fwds.

I don't think we've been great with his handling, but the opportunity, especially this season has been there, he just hasn't seized it

 

[Crease]

But he's regularly getting more than 12 mins (as in 15+), and his slight drop in ice-time from game 15 onwards was due to him doing SFA on the ice with the time he had.
Even wit that drop he's 3rd among fwds for EV ice time and 6th (KK has just overtaken him) for overall among fwds.

I don't think we've been great with his handling, but the opportunity, especially this season has been there, he just hasn't seized it

Agreed. It’s not one or the other. Both sides of the equation (team and player) are at fault here.

 

[CLW]

But he's regularly getting more than 12 mins (as in 15+), and his slight drop in ice-time from game 15 onwards was due to him doing SFA on the ice with the time he had.
Even wit that drop he's 3rd among fwds for EV ice time and 6th (KK has just overtaken him) for overall among fwds.

I don't think we've been great with his handling, but the opportunity, especially this season has been there, he just hasn't seized it

Opportunity does not exist in a vacuum. What does it even mean? The point is to DEVELOP the players, not jam them into roles as 3rd line wingers or puck support for a single player (like Panarin). Actual "opportunity" means to give them time to fail and adapt and learn to succeed, not have them on a chain to yank whenever the coach feels like.

 

[Gordon Bombay]

Opportunity does not exist in a vacuum. What does it even mean? The point is to DEVELOP the players, not jam them into roles as 3rd line wingers or puck support for a single player (like Panarin). Actual "opportunity" means to give them time to fail and adapt and learn to succeed, not have them on a chain to yank whenever the coach feels like.

I mean what important minutes do they get? No PP basically. Kakko gets a little PK. Every time they do get to play with the PP1 guys 5v5 they're always demoted or switched after 2 games.

It's gotta be a little demoralizing to have yourself moved and not the other guys when they don't produce. Or to know you're never going to start a PP. Good chance you're not going to play OT. Not going to be out for an extra skater. Not going to be out for anything.

They haven't been great but you need to give them a crumble of the cookie if you want them to be great.

 

[CLW]

I mean what important minutes do they get? No PP basically. Kakko gets a little PK. Every time they do get to play with the PP1 guys 5v5 they're always demoted or switched after 2 games.

It's gotta be a little demoralizing to have yourself moved and not the other guys when they don't produce. Or to know you're never going to start a PP. Good chance you're not going to play OT. Not going to be out for an extra skater. Not going to be out for anything.

They haven't been great but you need to give them a crumble of the cookie if you want them to be great.

I think so. You sit down and design a game that suits their game and coach them and help them grow, like what MSL is doing with Caufield and Dach. You don't tell them to pass the puck to Trouba, Zib or Panarin the first chance you get or yank their chain if they make a mistake. You don't even put a chain on them in the first place. You give them the equivalent to puck support from the coaching staff and you coach them, don't motivate them by punishment like dogs. That's stone age nonsense designed for morons that lack brains.

 

[huerter]

Laf loves Gallant. He gets cised.

 

[Gordon Bombay]

I think so. You sit down and design a game that suits their game and coach them and help them grow, like what MSL is doing with Caufield and Dach. You don't tell them to pass the puck to Trouba, Zib or Panarin the first chance you get or yank their chain if they make a mistake. You don't even put a chain on them in the first place. You give them the equivalent to puck support from the coaching staff and you coach them, don't motivate them by punishment like dogs. That's stone age nonsense designed for morons that lack brains.

Yeah, I don't really get why this team thinks tough love is the route to go. Maybe if there was team wide accountability but there's obviously not.

This whole debacle got me thinking how Jagr took Dubinsky under his wing that one year and really made him an NHL player instead of a possibility. Our veterans want nothing to do with playing with these guys, and when they do it's play this way or we're gonna suck. Why can't Krieder shift to RW for Laf?, but its okay for Panarin. Why can't Panarin try to play the game that fits Kakko best?

Once I heard the "wait your turn" BS I felt like I was reliving AV and the "kick at the can" BS. I probably haven't been this frustrated with this team since AV's last year

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Either give him minutes or kiss this rebuild goodbye. This isn't working, it started to last year then the trade deadline came and they took him out of the top 6 again

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

 

[Whoot Whoot]

It’s the unlimited money rangers can’t they hire someone to mentor him 24-7
Like Nash or Gaborik

 

[Peltz]

The kid can finish, for sure. Just need to be patient.

 

[Kords]

It’s the unlimited money rangers can’t they hire someone to mentor him 24-7
Like Nash or Gaborik

They can't even seem to communicate on the most basic level. At this point I just give up on this front office.

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

This is exactly why I'd love to see him with Trocheck and Gauthier. A crash the net line, and he'd fit in well with them following plays or hanging weakside waiting for a crossice pass off the rush (since both of those guys favor driving the net from the right side of the ice).