Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[IDvsEGO]

True.

Its one of the reasons im not actually concerned about laf and kakko

 

[Crease]

"Welcome to the organization kid. I understand you want to become an all-star, but we will have to run that idea by the vets and the public relations team first."

 

[ReddestRum]

I'm just absolutely floored that this board continues to push the idea that Laf should get top line and top PP minutes... Just cause. In the real world, every player in the NHL (especially young ones) earn their place in the lineup. It's not just about putting points on the board, but you have to show a willingness to get better every season. Attitude helps as well. You just can't show up to play and show some inkling of brilliance every 5-10 games. I believe Laf is right where he deserves to be. Kakko and Chy, despite their own woes, appear to have at least shown they are committed to getting better. Laf has looked like Laf since he's been in the league. Also, spare me any advanced stats. That's been working out for us as a team the last few weeks, eh?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

True, except the Rangers are the only team in that list that exclusively has former players from their organization.

Harrold never played for Carolina. Horcoff never played for Detroit.

Is this an unwillingness to look outside the organization, or just a continuing fetish with people who played and therefore will promote Rangers Hockey (TM)?

That to me means more than who they were as players.

Yeah, the Rangers org is a web of nepotism. If someone works for the Rangers, 99% they are either related to, have played with, or f***ing someone in the org.

 

[McRanger92]

I understand your concern, but they also had not drafted any projected legitimate elite scoring forwards... guess we shall see.

80% of the good forwards the Rangers have developed are playing major roles on other teams

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

I'm just absolutely floored that this board continues to push the idea that Laf should get top line and top PP minutes... Just cause. In the real world, every player in the NHL (especially young ones) earn their place in the lineup. It's not just about putting points on the board, but you have to show a willingness to get better every season. Attitude helps as well. You just can't show up to play and show some inkling of brilliance every 5-10 games. I believe Laf is right where he deserves to be. Kakko and Chy, despite their own woes, appear to have at least shown they are committed to getting better. Laf has looked like Laf since he's been in the league. Also, spare me any advanced stats. That's been working out for us as a team the last few weeks, eh?

So you are suggesting that Laf hasnt been committed to developing his skillset?

Where are you getting that from? Are you with the team?

 

[UnSandvich]

That poster has been negative about Laf for as long as i can remember, and tbh at this point i just ignore them. Their act got tiresome a long time ago.

 

[ReddestRum]

So you are suggesting that Laf hasnt been committed to developing his skillset?

Where are you getting that from? Are you with the team?

I have two eyes. You can see improvement. It's not hard. And yes, keep ignoring me like a bunch of you ignore mediocracy and you'll keep coming back here every year screaming for more play time from a bonified 3rd liner and that he needs another year for his game to mature. Meanwhile, younger and similar-aged players passing him by.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I have two eyes. You can see improvement. It's not hard. And yes, keep ignoring me like a bunch of you ignore mediocracy and you'll keep coming back here every year screaming for more play time from a bonified 3rd liner and that he needs another year for his game to mature. Meanwhile, younger and similar-aged players passing him by.

You mean mediocrity?

 

[ReddestRum]

You mean mediocrity?

Damn. You owned me so hard.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Damn. You owned me so hard.

It's a simple question.

 

[xsniper11x]

Nothing needed to change, just give the kid line more 5v5 ice time and consider panarin a 3rd line pp specialist if he can't adjust to play with zib and Kreider. There are your top two lines and they should be deployed as such when it comes to 5v5 ice time based on the mess of forwards that are here

I think this is step 1, and my hope is it doesn’t fly well with Panarin and he eventually becomes open to being moved. We simply can’t afford to allocate $12mm to a 3L PP specialist. That’s not a reason to not do it, but it does just further highlight that we need to move on from Bread.

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

I'm just absolutely floored that this board continues to push the idea that Laf should get top line and top PP minutes... Just cause. In the real world, every player in the NHL (especially young ones) earn their place in the lineup. It's not just about putting points on the board, but you have to show a willingness to get better every season. Attitude helps as well. You just can't show up to play and show some inkling of brilliance every 5-10 games. I believe Laf is right where he deserves to be. Kakko and Chy, despite their own woes, appear to have at least shown they are committed to getting better. Laf has looked like Laf since he's been in the league. Also, spare me any advanced stats. That's been working out for us as a team the last few weeks, eh?

So why does Jimmy Vesey get top line minutes?

Why did we have to suffer through 3 full seasons of him in the top 6 when he hasn't earned anything, and hasn't improved his play at all?

Why are we now being made to suffer through a 4th?

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

I have two eyes. You can see improvement. It's not hard. And yes, keep ignoring me like a bunch of you ignore mediocracy and you'll keep coming back here every year screaming for more play time from a bonified 3rd liner and that he needs another year for his game to mature. Meanwhile, younger and similar-aged players passing him by.

Do all top young players improve based on their own merits/work ethic? Or do they just naturally grow into becoming a man and improve with experience?

Your point was hinting that Laf has a bad attitude and hasnt shown any commitment to get better. Thats a lot different than saying he was over hyped at the draft and the doubts then about his pace/skating were actually really important at the time. Because that kinda stuff doesn't necessarily improve itself easily, even with a tiresome work ethic.

The Rangers werent going to draft anyone else at #1, neither was any other team.

The point in all of this we are trying to discern is are Lafreniere's struggles based on the players' natural skillset and expectations, the result of how he's been treated in the organization or a little of both? I personally dont think its a case of his attitude or mailing it in effort-wise.

 

[bleedblue94]

I think this is step 1, and my hope is it doesn’t fly well with Panarin and he eventually becomes open to being moved. We simply can’t afford to allocate $12mm to a 3L PP specialist. That’s not a reason to not do it, but it does just further highlight that we need to move on from Bread.

Yeah, whether we want it to be or not the reality is trending that way. Panarin just is not a 5v5 player with his apprehension to the middle of the ice and from shooting. We can wish and will things to be different all we want but it's what is happening for 18 months now.

 

[CLW]

I'd love to see what this team would look like if the kids were given the keys...

Get rid of "the vets" and lets see how the kids handle being THE GO TO GUYS

If it were possible I'd guarantee we'd have more losses.

I want them to succeed but they've shown nothing to prove they can handle being THE GUYS

The point is to DEVELOP them to be able to being The Guys. This is not hard to understand. That's what the Devils did with Hughes and Hischier. They gave them time and minutes to figure it out and didn't put any vets in front of them or asked them to carry water on the third line.

Every time Laf or Kakko start to play well they get demoted. That's the recipe for screwing them over and keeping them in check, from not growing into The Guys but into The Dependable Sidekicks, which just so happens to be the comfort zone for the Rangers management. The Devils want to build a competitor. The Rangers want to make the playoffs. That's the difference.

 

[LORDE]

The point is to DEVELOP them to be able to being The Guys. This is not hard to understand. That's what the Devils did with Hughes and Hischier. They gave them time and minutes to figure it out and didn't put any vets in front of them or asked them to carry water on the third line.

Every time Laf or Kakko start to play well they get demoted. That's the recipe for screwing them over and keeping them in check, from not growing into The Guys but into The Dependable Sidekicks, which just so happens to be the comfort zone for the Rangers management. The Devils want to build a competitor. The Rangers want to make the playoffs. That's the difference.

This org doesn't do the "development" thing

Dolan wants wins...
Therefore Drury wants wins...
Therefore Gallant wants wins...

They're not going to take the keys away from Bread Kreider and Z and give them to the kids

The kids haven't been developed and as such have shown slow to zero improvement

 

[TriFF51]

Well if the season keeps trending this way, hopefully they at some point wave the white flag and start letting the young guys have big minutes for developments sake.

I'm not saying it's nearly time to be waving any flags but still.

 

[LORDE]

Well if the season keeps trending this way, hopefully they at some point wave the white flag and start letting the young guys have big minutes for developments sake.

I'm not saying it's nearly time to be waving any flags but still.

It is time to try something different tho...

I agree

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

This org doesn't do the "development" thing

Dolan wants wins...
Therefore Drury wants wins...
Therefore Gallant wants wins...

They're not going to take the keys away from Bread Kreider and Z and give them to the kids

The kids haven't been developed and as such have shown slow to zero improvement

is it asking too much to hire a good or maybe even excellent coaching staff in Hartford so that players actually get better and learn some hockey there instead of run away after 20 games?

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

I can't say how effective or ineffective Mark Ciaccio has been, but he was basically pulled from the Arizona Coyotes out of nowhere by Glen Sather in 2013. Prior to that was asked by Gretzky to be the Coyotes skill coach and worked with them for some time.

He does originate from the Laura Stamm program and the players seem to love him. He's been a tandem with Allaire and survived multiple coaching changes with Benny.

But when it comes to Lafreniere im wondering if he needs an additional 1 on 1, customized training program from someone outside the organization. To me, skating is his biggest weakness at this level.

I dont know how much it can improve, but we did see Brian Boyle improve his skating pretty dramatically in year 4 after his first year with the team.

The Rangers sent Boyle to work with Barbara Underhill in the offseason prior, when he was 26 years old. Maybe Laf would benefit from something like that and hes at a much younger age.

His overall game and offense noticeably improved and it pretty much saved his career. Boyle wasnt a 1OA, but he was a first rounder, selected 26th by the Kings, so it wasnt like he didnt have a good pedigree.

She estimates that Mr. Boyle was using about half the power in his legs, and that he needed better balance and explosiveness in his feet. Mr. Boyle said his biggest improvement is turning and operating on the edges of his skates—something that had held him back during his four-year career.

Mr. Boyle admits he was skeptical, since plenty of players have tried skating lessons and failed to show results. Ms. Underhill said Mr. Boyle bought in on the second day of instruction, when he was incredibly sore and realized that Ms. Underhill was teaching Mr. Boyle to use new muscles.

Figure Skater Barbara Underhill Refines Ranger Brian Boyle's Stride

Former Olympic figure skater Barbara Underhil diagnosed the issues with the Rangers' Brian Boyle's skating style and worked to address them.

www.wsj.com

From Suffern to MSG: Skills coach Mark Ciaccio has become a fixture for the NY Rangers

Mark Ciaccio was considered too small to play hockey beyond Suffern High School, but he found his way to the NHL as a skills coach.

www.lohud.com

 

[PlamsUnlimited]

I think this is step 1, and my hope is it doesn’t fly well with Panarin and he eventually becomes open to being moved. We simply can’t afford to allocate $12mm to a 3L PP specialist. That’s not a reason to not do it, but it does just further highlight that we need to move on from Bread.

I didn't think of the long game, but this would be cool. Try to get him out of here and we'd probably need to retain to get a better return.

 

[GENESISPuck94]

This org doesn't do the "development" thing

Dolan wants wins...
Therefore Drury wants wins...
Therefore Gallant wants wins...

They're not going to take the keys away from Bread Kreider and Z and give them to the kids

The kids haven't been developed and as such have shown slow to zero improvement

100%

And the organization is a clown show because of it. They always have been and apparently always will be.

 

[LORDE]

100%

And the organization is a clown show because of it. They always have been and apparently always will be.

Fully (sadly) believe this is true

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Nothing needed to change, just give the kid line more 5v5 ice time and consider panarin a 3rd line pp specialist if he can't adjust to play with zib and Kreider. There are your top two lines and they should be deployed as such when it comes to 5v5 ice time based on the mess of forwards that are here

The 3rd line PP specialist on this team is Chris Kreider