Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[bleedblue94]

I mean Laffy is like 5th on the team in hits, I do agree we saw even more competitiveness from him in the playoffs but it's not like its not there at all. Agreed he could be more consistent, but that is also a team wide issue right now so it's hard to pin that just on Laffy. I also do see the playmaking ability in there. We see flashes of it. I get that he had a bad game last night but it seems like some people just go full rock bottom with this kid any chance they get(not necessarily you, just in general on this forum). I do agree that he needs to be handed more responsibility and trust if we ever want to see what he's truly capable of.

I don't think hits translate to competitiveness, and two hits a game isn't Brandon tanev. It just highlights how aversive this roster is in general to physical hockey.

He isn't the same player he was even at 18 years old. He's been neutered emotionally if you look at his body language. It's hard to watch sometimes.

 

[bleedblue94]

Or....

He's just not very good.

Yeah, he suddenly turned to junk and the player we saw through the playoffs last year who has a major contributor wasnt actually laffy.

 

[OthmannOut]

Yeah, he suddenly turned to junk and the player we saw through the playoffs last year who has a major contributor wasnt actually laffy.

100% this. Anybody saying that Laf has been terrible the entire time he has been here is being a smooth brain. What we want is the epitome of the Kids line hype from the playoffs last year. That shift. That exhilarating domination that organically built over the course of the postseason that, for whatever reason, was constrained to third line minutes and given no other opportunities. It's just mind boggling and the longer it goes on the worse it looks on management.

 

[Deleted member 23124]

100% this. Anybody saying that Laf has been terrible the entire time he has been here is being a smooth brain. What we want is the epitome of the Kids line hype from the playoffs last year. That shift. That exhilarating domination that organically built over the course of the postseason that, for whatever reason, was constrained to third line minutes and given no other opportunities. It's just mind boggling and the longer it goes on the worse it looks on management.

At this point, one would think management couldn't look any worse.

 

[OthmannOut]

Consider the beginning of the season -- the kids were correctly spread around on the top lines and I remember hearing about how Kakko would be getting PK time. There was some hope that we were going to see maybe Laf or Chytil on the PP1 as well. What happened? A handful of losses, none of those aforementioned additional responsibilities, and now we are watching Jimmy Vesey taking away a top line spot from Laf/Kakko.

 

[bhamill]

Lucas Raymond has been on PP2 for most of the year with everyone healthy and is not on the top line. He has gotten less 5v5 time per game than Lafreniere.

Jarvis also lost his spot on the top PP for a while now and a bit on 5v5 to Stefan Noesen

Lundell produced in a third line role all of last year

And Raymond has fewer even strength points than Laf... You go through all of these examples on on an individual basis taking into account PP time and 1st/2nd line mins, etc, and there are very few players from his draft doing as well as Lafreniere. For what it is worth, which is subjective.
I'm pretty sure NO ONE is satisfied with Lafreniere's production, it's just a matter of perspective whether at just turned 21, with ABOUT 2 regular seasons worth of games, and restricted PP/top line time, you think that THIS is about all that Laf will be. I don't. I'm honestly not that worried. I get being frustrated, but outside of Hughes (1OA in his year who was NOT available to us), who from the last four draft classes is REALLY tearing it up yet?
I'm of the opinion that Laf is VERY FAR from a finished product. People are entitled to think otherwise, entitled to their disappointment given his draft position, but not entitled to expect everyone else to agree that a player so young in his development is topping out where he is right now.

 

[bleedblue94]

Consider the beginning of the season -- the kids were correctly spread around on the top lines and I remember hearing about how Kakko would be getting PK time. There was some hope that we were going to see maybe Laf or Chytil on the PP1 as well. What happened? A handful of losses, none of those aforementioned additional responsibilities, and now we are watching Jimmy Vesey taking away a top line spot from Laf/Kakko.

Again, this is what happens when a coaching staff feels the squeeze. They almost always fall back to their vets to save them or to cozie up to the vets more so they advocate for the coaches to remain.

 

[LORDE]

What you are saying is not true - you also changed the goal posts on your logic. You said because he has a lot of hits, he never has the puck and is a checking forward. My point was that hitting does not necessarily mean a player is a "checking forward" as you said.

Also his possession metrics are pretty good. He's 5th on the team in CF% and 9th in FF%. Both above 50% which is a positive indicator that he's contributing to possession and controlling the puck. There is no statistical merit to what you are saying.

Lastly, I couldnt disagree more that every pro in every sport has "high compete level". There are very obvious differences in compete level player to player. To pretend like the compete level is just the same across every player in every sport none the less, is inconceivable.

Never said the compete was "the same" I said high... every pro in every sport has a high compete level

SO giving props to Laff for having high compete is akin to saying "He breathes air"

I honestly don't care solely about metrics... some do which is fine.

I watch the games and if/when he does have the puck... it isn't for long... it takes him :01-:03 secs to lose it to the opposition or make a wayward pass or a braindead play

His hits are also meaningless since he never separates a player from the puck. Hell he doesn't even slow them down or disrupt them.

He's young and can get better at some things but he hasn't improved on one thing at all since last season and as you pointed out he's regressed significantly from his decent play in the post season last yr.

He's been a nothing-burger since we drafted him and he's still VERY MUCH that.

 

[OldBlueshirt]

100% this. Anybody saying that Laf has been terrible the entire time he has been here is being a smooth brain. What we want is the epitome of the Kids line hype from the playoffs last year. That shift. That exhilarating domination that organically built over the course of the postseason that, for whatever reason, was constrained to third line minutes and given no other opportunities. It's just mind boggling and the longer it goes on the worse it looks on management.

I don't think Laf has been terrible but he's definitely looking lost out there for various reasons. But I'm holding out hope for his potential in NY when I remember he actually had the 2nd most even-strength goals (19) last season. It seems unbelievable but it's true, and incredible considering he was mostly 3rd line.

 

[RangerBoy]

 

[LORDE]

I'd love to see what this team would look like if the kids were given the keys...

Get rid of "the vets" and lets see how the kids handle being THE GO TO GUYS

If it were possible I'd guarantee we'd have more losses.

I want them to succeed but they've shown nothing to prove they can handle being THE GUYS

 

[bleedblue94]

100% this. Anybody saying that Laf has been terrible the entire time he has been here is being a smooth brain. What we want is the epitome of the Kids line hype from the playoffs last year. That shift. That exhilarating domination that organically built over the course of the postseason that, for whatever reason, was constrained to third line minutes and given no other opportunities. It's just mind boggling and the longer it goes on the worse it looks on management.

Nothing needed to change, just give the kid line more 5v5 ice time and consider panarin a 3rd line pp specialist if he can't adjust to play with zib and Kreider. There are your top two lines and they should be deployed as such when it comes to 5v5 ice time based on the mess of forwards that are here

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Excellent analysis.

 

[Deleted member 23124]

Again, this is what happens when a coaching staff feels the squeeze. They almost always fall back to their vets to save them or to cozie up to the vets more so they advocate for the coaches to remain.

I don't think this staff has felt "the squeeze" yet.

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

Never said the compete was "the same" I said high... every pro in every sport has a high compete level

SO giving props to Laff for having high compete is akin to saying "He breathes air"

I honestly don't care solely about metrics... some do which is fine.

I watch the games and if/when he does have the puck... it isn't for long... it takes him :01-:03 secs to lose it to the opposition or make a wayward pass or a braindead play

His hits are also meaningless since he never separates a player from the puck. Hell he doesn't even slow them down or disrupt them.

He's young and can get better at some things but he hasn't improved on one thing at all since last season and as you pointed out he's regressed significantly from his decent play in the post season last yr.

He's been a nothing-burger since we drafted him and he's still VERY MUCH that.

I think the disagreement between us is that I am trying to use some objective metrics but you are using strictly subjective ones. That is fine, totally your prerogative to do so, but I do not think we will find common ground on this.

I continue to hold out hope that Laffy will come into his own when he is trusted to be a major part of this teams offense. I truly think he is stifled by his usage, and I think some of the stats support it.

For the sake of the team I hope I am right!

 

[Gordon Bombay]

And he has been neutered. You can see he has lost that swagger and tenacity. He had it in the playoffs. Part of it is the org usage, but the other part is him and that for 3 years we have been begging for more effort and consistency. Laffy looks like a kid that for years as he was trending to be the 1oa pick thought he would have an nhl team be HIS like virtually every other 1oa pick but at this point he isnt even one of a 6 biggest faces of this team.

zib
panarin
fox
kreider
trouba
igor

As Edge said, these guys are treated as assets. You can add Trocheck to that list with his 7 year contract.

When you have to wait your turn for 10 years, yeah I wouldn’t care either.

This team just has it so wrong

 

[UnSandvich]

Funny, i was actually about to link the exact same article.

 

[bleedblue94]

I don't think this staff has felt "the squeeze" yet.

I'm not sure that is true, they started the season with a plan for the lineup and when the results were not there reverted to vets leading the way and it's not working. I think the squeeze is there and with what happened to Turk in Vegas it would be crazy to not think he's aware of that history and how quick it can happen.

 

[Leonardo87]

Was at the game last night, didn't notice him till he took that penalty in the 3rd.

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

You should look up the names of the Lightning, Avs, Stars and Bruins developing coaches.

The Tampa Bay Lighting are a prime example of a team that develops players well, right?

I'd consider them the cream of the crop in that regard. Anyone want to guess who their director of player development is? Stacy Roest, who played less in the NHL than either Tanner Glass or Jed Ortmeyer.

Colorado Avalanche? Brian Wilshie

Carolina Hurricanes? Peter Harrold, Jason Muzzatti, Sergei Samsonov

Detroit Red Wings? Shawn Horcoff and Daniel Cleary

Dallas Stars? J.J. McQueen, Stephen Greely, Pär Johansson

Sergei Samsonov and Shawn Horcoff had decent seasons as a player in the NHL but hardly the stars some people want to be in charge of player development, yet they're among the most successful in the league. Some of the names here didn't e ven play in the NHL.

Tanner Glass and Jed Ortmeyer may not be good at their job but it's not that they aren't good because of who they were as players. There's no correlation at all between being a good player and being a good coach.

True, except the Rangers are the only team in that list that exclusively has former players from their organization.

Harrold never played for Carolina. Horcoff never played for Detroit.

Is this an unwillingness to look outside the organization, or just a continuing fetish with people who played and therefore will promote Rangers Hockey (TM)?

That to me means more than who they were as players.

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

And Raymond has fewer even strength points than Laf... You go through all of these examples on on an individual basis taking into account PP time and 1st/2nd line mins, etc, and there are very few players from his draft doing as well as Lafreniere. For what it is worth, which is subjective.
I'm pretty sure NO ONE is satisfied with Lafreniere's production, it's just a matter of perspective whether at just turned 21, with ABOUT 2 regular seasons worth of games, and restricted PP/top line time, you think that THIS is about all that Laf will be. I don't. I'm honestly not that worried. I get being frustrated, but outside of Hughes (1OA in his year who was NOT available to us), who from the last four draft classes is REALLY tearing it up yet?
I'm of the opinion that Laf is VERY FAR from a finished product. People are entitled to think otherwise, entitled to their disappointment given his draft position, but not entitled to expect everyone else to agree that a player so young in his development is topping out where he is right now.

I am worried not because of anything from or about Laf.

I am worried because this organization has not developed a legitimate elite scoring forward in under 8 NHL seasons in a generation.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Good article.

I think a Lafreniere-Trocheck tandem is one that can develop chemistry and I hope Gallant keeps them together.

 

[bhamill]

I am worried not because of anything from or about Laf.

I am worried because this organization has not developed a legitimate elite scoring forward in under 8 NHL seasons in a generation.

I understand your concern, but they also had not drafted any projected legitimate elite scoring forwards... guess we shall see.

 

[IDvsEGO]

I understand your concern, but they also had not drafted any projected legitimate elite scoring forwards... guess we shall see.

While he wasnt drafted by us, Mika went from a .5 ppg player to a 1.0 ppg player on the rangers. Thats a significant development.

He was .5 ppg in his d+5 (please note that includes about 1/4 his production at PP/SH),
Laf and Kakko both are around .5 ppg at even strength, at d+3

 

[bhamill]

While he wasnt drafted by us, Mika went from a .5 ppg player to a 1.0 ppg player on the rangers. Thats a significant development.

He was .5 ppg in his d+5 (please note that includes about 1/4 his production at PP/SH),
Laf and Kakko both are around .5 ppg at even strength, at d+3

True.