Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[The Crypto Guy]

3pts in 13 games is not good

He’s played great. I could care less about the points right now, they will come.

 

[JHS]

Laf has all the tools to be incredible in this league. He can skate, has good balance, seems to have a good shot and has shown brief flashes of ability to cycle down low but the obvious flaw in his game is terrible bad habits. He coasts with the puck way too often, he glided around the defensive zone all the time, he seems to be unwilling to compete hard on lose pucks and seems generally convinced that his superior talent will carry him at the NHL level. My hunch is hockey has been so easy for him for so long that he’s just now realizing that the NHL requires players to be well rounded and good at all attributes of the game. He’s simply not learned that lesson yet.

Now the real concern is the absolute disaster the team has behind the bench strikes me as the type of guy who will point out all these flaws without offering any constructive ways to improve Laf’s game. It’s one thing to notice these mistakes and take away ice time, it’s another entirely to offer solutions to improve these flaws. Quinn’s lack of skill building and development through structure is why Laf currently has one more NHL point than all of us do posting on this board. Structure allows players to develop and actually promotes skill building because they know where to be on the ice which frees them up to be more creative with the puck. Right now, Laf is lost because the coaching is embarrassingly bad.

If it was just him who was struggling I’d be worried but the whole team is and this guy clearly has skills that are far superior to most of our other prospects.

 

[TheDirtyH]

The he's only 18 excuse (He's actually 19 and a few months and was one of the oldest players in his draftclass) has become tiresome. Every other #1 pick forward outside of Jack Hughes since the land before time has produced at a top-6 rate at the very least in their rookie seasons and some of them actually were 18. Is he a bust? No. Is this a legitimate excuse for his lack of production and overall ineffectiveness? No.

It's an exact replica of Kakko last year. At the start "he's playing well," putting up some points (in Kakko's case). Then as the season progresses, the fans turn on him.

I find it hard to believe, especially with the exponential rise in Kakko's play this year, that this is an issue of simply not being ready or capable of being an offensive contributor. TBH, Kakko still is not an offensive contributor. It's obviously something else. It's why it's tiring to hear the 'what about Fox, Lindgren, K'Andre, DeAngelo, Chytil, and especially Buchnevich' lines in regards to these two. Fox is an outstanding player who comes in as a 22 year old and is a phenom. Those 3/4 years make a difference too. The rest? DeAngelo is seemingly out of the league. Lindgren and Miller have been steady defensive defensemen--not much to write home about offensively. And Chytil and Buchnevich? Chytil looked good, but still 3pts in 5gp is not like 'the finish line.' His career highs last year are 14g and 23pts. Buchnevich--good player. Breakout year this year? Hardly. He's about the same he's been for the last three seasons. Except now he's also a phenomenal penalty killer. 9pts in 15gp.

 

[Synergy27]

Laf just isn't a dog on loose pucks or a guy who'll work his ass off to get in and throw himself into the fire on the puck. He also doesn't keep his stick down enough, and throws dumb hits when he should keep his stick down and block a lane or poke at the puck in advantageous spots. He doesn't have that dogged determination to just hound defenders. Kakko has that trait and that work effort and he just hunts pucks down this season and doesn't give defenders time to breathe. He suffocates them.

Laf just glides in, glides in, slowly... looks like he doesn't even give two shits half the time. It's a bit sad.

Which is insane because he very much was that player in juniors. He was a special 1OA worthy prospect because he combined elite puck skills with very high level compete and a little bit of nastiness. None of that has translated to the NHL yet.

Do I think he’s forgotten how to be this player? No. Is it worrisome that he doesn’t look anything like the player they drafted? Yes. The question is why is that the case. I’ll continue to assume that Quinn is the answer until something gives.

 

[CupSeeker]

Laf has all the tools to be incredible in this league. He can skate, has good balance, seems to have a good shot and has shown brief flashes of ability to cycle down low but the obvious flaw in his game is terrible bad habits. He coasts with the puck way too often, he glided around the defensive zone all the time, he seems to be unwilling to compete hard on lose pucks and seems generally convinced that his superior talent will carry him at the NHL level. My hunch is hockey has been so easy for him for so long that he’s just now realizing that the NHL requires players to be well rounded and good at all attributes of the game. He’s simply not learned that lesson yet.

Now the real concern is the absolute disaster the team has behind the bench strikes me as the type of guy who will point out all these flaws without offering any constructive ways to improve Laf’s game. It’s one thing to notice these mistakes and take away ice time, it’s another entirely to offer solutions to improve these flaws. Quinn’s lack of skill building and development through structure is why Laf currently has one more NHL point than all of us do posting on this board. Structure allows players to develop and actually promotes skill building because they know where to be on the ice which frees them up to be more creative with the puck. Right now, Laf is lost because the coaching is embarrassingly bad.

If it was just him who was struggling I’d be worried but the whole team is and this guy clearly has skills that are far superior to most of our other prospects.

It appears Quinn scares these young guys to play hyper careful out there. He is defense first unless he is involved in a 2 on 1. You can see when he's carrying the puck, he is thinking about getting back after it gets turned over. Kakko played that way last year; one foot in one foot out in the offensive zone. Not gonna get scoring chances that way. You can see the skills, the edgework, puck control in tight spaces. He just needs to trust himself out there and that hasn't happened yet.

 

[aufheben]

I’m not saying he’s been good but bad luck is a part of it; How much of a part is open for discussion.

This is Laf’s 5v5 on-ice shooting %. Not his, on-ice.

He’s played half the season with Zibanejad and Zibanejad couldn’t hit the ocean with a shot at the moment.

 

[True Blue]

It appears Quinn scares these young guys to play hyper careful out there. He is defense first unless he is involved in a 2 on 1. You can see when he's carrying the puck, he is thinking about getting back after it gets turned over. Kakko played that way last year; one foot in one foot out in the offensive zone. Not gonna get scoring chances that way. You can see the skills, the edgework, puck control in tight spaces. He just needs to trust himself out there and that hasn't happened yet.

There is absolutely no truth to this. The young players have largely prospered.

This cannot be understated. Lafreniere has entered the league under ridiculous circumstances that no other 19 year old had to face. That WILL have an effect. Being a 19 year old rookie WILL have an effect. Of course his game will be different than when he was in the Q. That is juniors. This is the best league in the world. He built up bad habits in the Q that he could mask when there, but not in the NHL Part of coaching is getting him to progress his game and break him of bad habits.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

It appears Quinn scares these young guys to play hyper careful out there. He is defense first unless he is involved in a 2 on 1. You can see when he's carrying the puck, he is thinking about getting back after it gets turned over. Kakko played that way last year; one foot in one foot out in the offensive zone. Not gonna get scoring chances that way. You can see the skills, the edgework, puck control in tight spaces. He just needs to trust himself out there and that hasn't happened yet.

Based on what?

He's trying to get the younger players to acclimate to the NHL game and become more-complete players at the higher level.

A ton of conjecture in your post.

 

[JHS]

It appears Quinn scares these young guys to play hyper careful out there. He is defense first unless he is involved in a 2 on 1. You can see when he's carrying the puck, he is thinking about getting back after it gets turned over. Kakko played that way last year; one foot in one foot out in the offensive zone. Not gonna get scoring chances that way. You can see the skills, the edgework, puck control in tight spaces. He just needs to trust himself out there and that hasn't happened yet.

This times 1000. What you describe is exactly why this coach has been a nightmare for these guys to develop under. He makes it impossible to make a mistake which of course any new player will.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

I get people are on edge because the Rangers haven't drafted a player like this in forever and he's not putting up numbers, but try and relax a little. The kid's not even 15 games into his pro career.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

This times 1000. What you describe is exactly why this coach has been a nightmare for these guys to develop under. He makes it impossible to make a mistake which of course any new player will.

My man, Laff is making mistakes up and down the ice. Drop passes to no one, missing defensive assignments, not driving to the net, passing up shots... I've yet to see him sit for an extended period of time, not start the game on at least the top 9, or not get PP time.

 

[Edge]

I get people are on edge because the Rangers haven't drafted a player like this in forever and he's not putting up numbers, but try and relax a little. The kid's not even 15 games into his pro career.

You know all those jokes/videos people make about telling your wife/GF to relax?

We can swap the board into those jokes/videos.

Same concept. Same pushback.

 

[CLW]

The irony is that the only guys producing right now are the ones doing that. Another is that posters are fed up with the team trying to make creative plays.

The Ranger's cycle game is ineffective, the transition game weak, the PP is stagnant and the coaching is outdated.

The lack of creativity IS the problem. Kakko is adjusting, but it's not surprising to see LAF going through the same Kakko did last season.

 

[JHS]

Based on what?

He's trying to get the younger players to acclimate to the NHL game and become more-complete players at the higher level.

A ton of conjecture in your post.

No he's not-- Quinn is trying to force these guys to play like seasoned NHL players when last year they were riding busses across Canada. Acclimating players to the league would include allowing structure to carry these guys through their development, giving reasonable leeway for screw ups, fostering an accountable culture but one that shows players how to improve not just consequence them to death.

It's beyond absurd to expect an 18 year old to play like a 27 year old and somehow hold the 18 year old to tighter standards and, at the same time, expect the 18 year old to develop.

Laf has shown obvious flaws in his game but clearly is not receiving adequate coaching on how to improve. I'd, just once, love to see him skate through a guy at the point and lay him out, just once, instead of taking the puck on his backhand and coasting when he receives a pass take a quick first stride, just once when in a puck battle at the point in the defending zone attempt to skate the puck out rather than flip it off the glass. These are all things that an NHL player, who is actually developing will start to do when they have confidence. Right now, Laf does none of this because he's either never had to play an NHL style before or is not being told this is what the coaching staff wants to see.

 

[JHS]

My man, Laff is making mistakes up and down the ice. Drop passes to no one, missing defensive assignments, not driving to the net, passing up shots... I've yet to see him sit for an extended period of time, not start the game on at least the top 9, or not get PP time.

But how does this show the coach is developing the guy? Putting him out there in spots does not equal developing him. I understand he's making mistakes and those mistakes are obvious even to us who post on the internet. What's not as obvious is what exactly is the coach doing for him to develop--this is 3 years into this coaches reign mind you and he has an abysmal track record developing young talent because he decided to take a negative reinforcement strategy.). My hunch is a lot of posters think players develop only through negative reinforcement ( take away ice time and they won't screw up again.) That's simply not true That just makes them scared to make mistakes. If you want to actually develop them they need to have a structured system and skill build.

Let's also not discount that if Quinn benched the number one overall pick it would be embarrassing and something the organization likely would not even allow!

 

[aufheben]

No he's not-- Quinn is trying to force these guys to play like seasoned NHL players when last year they were riding busses across Canada. Acclimating players to the league would include allowing structure to carry these guys through their development, giving reasonable leeway for screw ups, fostering an accountable culture but one that shows players how to improve not just consequence them to death.

It's beyond absurd to expect an 18 year old to play like a 27 year old and somehow hold the 18 year old to tighter standards and, at the same time, expect the 18 year old to develop.

Laf has shown obvious flaws in his game but clearly is not receiving adequate coaching on how to improve. I'd, just once, love to see him skate through a guy at the point and lay him out, just once, instead of taking the puck on his backhand and coasting when he receives a pass take a quick first stride, just once when in a puck battle at the point in the defending zone attempt to skate the puck out rather than flip it off the glass. These are all things that an NHL player, who is actually developing will start to do when they have confidence. Right now, Laf does none of this because he's either never had to play an NHL style before or is not being told this is what the coaching staff wants to see.

Structure takes 5 players.

Also I don’t see how Kakko and Lafreniere have been given anything but leeway.

 

[True Blue]

Based on what?

Him being the man on the grassy knoll.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

But how does this show the coach is developing the guy? Putting him out there in spots does not equal developing him. I understand he's making mistakes and those mistakes are obvious even to us who post on the internet. What's not as obvious is what exactly is the coach doing for him to develop--this is 3 years into this coaches reign mind you and he has an abysmal track record developing young talent because he decided to take a negative reinforcement strategy.). My hunch is a lot of posters think players develop only through negative reinforcement ( take away ice time and they won't screw up again.) That's simply not true That just makes them scared to make mistakes. If you want to actually develop them they need to have a structured system and skill build.

Let's also not discount that if Quinn benched the number one overall pick it would be embarrassing and something the organization likely would not even allow!

Do you know what they say to him, work with him on in practice? Cause I don't. Asking him to develop a 200 foot game isn't going to hurt his development, it's going to speed it up. You just don't step into the league and start dangling around an entire team. You don't just gift a 19 year old kid top assignments and PP time, that's how you ruin someone if they aren't ready for the responsibility. All Laff needs to do is skate hard, go to the net, and keep it simple.

What's obvious to me is whatever this staff has done with Kakko has worked, and there's no reason to believe it won't work with Laff. But what players haven 't developed under Quinn? Who are these mystical beasts?

 

[True Blue]

This times 1000. What you describe is exactly why this coach has been a nightmare for these guys to develop under. He makes it impossible to make a mistake which of course any new player will.

Kakko. Fox. Miller. Lindgren. Buchnevich. Chytil. Even DeAngelo. ALL trapped in a nightmare. Oh, the sheer HORROR!. Have to rescue them from Quinn as soon as possible. Their young careers are in taters. Can you imagine if other prospects have to be trapped in this nightmare? We simply cannot allow for other prospects to become the epitome of developmental failure like they did.

 

[True Blue]

Let's also not discount that if Quinn benched the number one overall pick it would be embarrassing and something the organization likely would not even allow!

I seriously need to ask this. But are you on crack?

 

[JHS]

Do you know what they say to him, work with him on in practice? Cause I don't. Asking him to develop a 200 foot game isn't going to hurt his development, it's going to speed it up. You just don't step into the league and start dangling around an entire team. You don't just gift a 19 year old kid top assignments and PP time, that's how you ruin someone if they aren't ready for the responsibility. All Laff needs to do is skate hard, go to the net, and keep it simple.

What's obvious to me is whatever this staff has done with Kakko has worked, and there's no reason to believe it won't work with Laff. But what players haven 't developed under Quinn? Who are these mystical beasts?

Worked??? You can't be serious-- if you think Kappo is a product of this coaching staff than I'm not even sure what to say. Anyone could have told him he needed to work on his skating, bulk up and be more involved in the play to make a transition into an effective player. Sorry, not going to give Quinn an ounce of credit for that. A 3rd year peewee rec coach could have given Kappo the same advice.

Also, I never said he should be gifted top line minutes. I believe the exact opposite. That's a totally different argument than saying that having unrealistic expectations for a developing player and then holding him to those unrealistic expectations can't also harm the guy. Maybe an analogy will help-- when you were in kindergarten, the teacher did not ask you to write multi-paragraph essays and then take away recess when you failed to write them successfully. It's obvious that Quinn has created an atmosphere where young players don't even want to make any mistakes at all and that's just a toxic atmosphere to develop in.

Not developed under Quinn-
Fox
Miller-- you know the two prospects people are most excited about--
Buch
Lias
Howden

Any of the forwards taken in the past 3 drafts since we still have a bottom 6 made up entirely of guys brought in from outside the organization...

 

[True Blue]

Also I don’t see how Kakko and Lafreniere have been given anything but leeway.

If only Trotz was the coach. Then he would properly develop them by allowing them to do whatever they felt like.

 

[JHS]

Structure takes 5 players.

Also I don’t see how Kakko and Lafreniere have been given anything but leeway.

Exactly-- all 5 players-- which if you look at the collective team, there is 0 structure on a consistent basis. As far as giving them a leash-- again, playing guys does not equal developing guys. Plenty of NHL players have been ruined by coaches who just keep playing them. Quinn has no choice but to play these guys. Why give him any credit. I guess my point is too subtle so I'll be blunt-- if we want these guys to actually develop we need an NHL coach whose been successful in the league and knows how to cultivate the skills required to make the transition into the NHL. Quinn is not that guy. This is not the coaching thread though so I'll lay off this argument since it's one I've had far too often on this board.

 

[True Blue]

What's obvious to me is whatever this staff has done with Kakko has worked, and there's no reason to believe it won't work with Laff. But what players haven 't developed under Quinn? Who are these mystical beasts?

Kakko was developed in Liga.
Fox was developed in Harvard.
Lindgren was developed in Minnesota and Boston.
Buchnevich just woke up and decided to become the player that he is.
Miller was developed in Wisconsin.
And Chytil was developed by his dad.

 

[True Blue]

Worked??? You can't be serious-- if you think Kappo is a product of this coaching staff than I'm not even sure what to say. Anyone could have told him he needed to work on his skating, bulk up and be more involved in the play to make a transition into an effective player. Sorry, not going to give Quinn an ounce of credit for that. A 3rd year peewee rec coach could have given Kappo the same advice.

The more I read, the better this gets. Ok, it is not crack. But it is clearly something.

Now, Kakko developed himself!