Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[Pawnee Rangers]

Worked??? You can't be serious-- if you think Kappo is a product of this coaching staff than I'm not even sure what to say. Anyone could have told him he needed to work on his skating, bulk up and be more involved in the play to make a transition into an effective player. Sorry, not going to give Quinn an ounce of credit for that. A 3rd year peewee rec coach could have given Kappo the same advice.

Also, I never said he should be gifted top line minutes. I believe the exact opposite. That's a totally different argument than saying that having unrealistic expectations for a developing player and then holding him to those unrealistic expectations can't also harm the guy. Maybe an analogy will help-- when you were in kindergarten, the teacher did not ask you to write multi-paragraph essays and then take away recess when you failed to write them successfully. It's obvious that Quinn has created an atmosphere where young players don't even want to make any mistakes at all and that's just a toxic atmosphere to develop in.

Kakko developed in spite of Quinn. Laff is not developing because of Quinn. Do I have that right?

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Kakko was developed in Liga.
Fox was developed in Harvard.
Lindgren was developed in Minnesota and Boston.
Buchnevich just woke up and decided to become the player that he is.
Miller was developed in Wisconsin.
And Chytil was developed by his dad.

Sheer lunacy.

 

[CupSeeker]

There is absolutely no truth to this. The young players have largely prospered.

This cannot be understated. Lafreniere has entered the league under ridiculous circumstances that no other 19 year old had to face. That WILL have an effect. Being a 19 year old rookie WILL have an effect. Of course his game will be different than when he was in the Q. That is juniors. This is the best league in the world. He built up bad habits in the Q that he could mask when there, but not in the NHL Part of coaching is getting him to progress his game and break him of bad habits.

you have alot of strong feelings. It doesn't appear you watch much hockey though. These two hyper talented kids are experiencing the same lack of success under a system and coach that clearly has them moving around the ice scared. I'm not even hitting Quinn here. This approach may be what's best for them long term. But I don't see any way to deny that Kakko was tentative and slow to react last year as he adjusted to what Quinn insisted he do each shift and Laf is in the same boat. They will both be fine is the bottom line. Neither of them has prospered to date. Chytil also experienced a similar curve although he had significant time in Hartford to gain confidence and learn the system.

 

[JHS]

Kakko developed in spite of Quinn. Laff is not developing because of Quinn. Do I have that right?

You talk about Kappo like he's this world beater. The guys has 3 points in over 10 games. You really want to rest your argument on that point- If you think Kappo is a " Quinn product" than you've basically fallen on your own sword here.

Never have I said Laf is not developing. He of course will-- what I've said is Quinn's system and development approach is not well suited for development. Your boy Kappo proves that-- during last season when Quinn was in his ear he did nothing well. He left when the season came off break and looked much better. He left again for the summer and now looks even better. You think Quinn was giving him personal house visits during those times or is it more likely that his lack of development while directly connected to the coach can be more attributed to what message he was getting or overall team culture? I mean it's all conjecture because no one knows but the dots connect themselves!

 

[True Blue]

Sheer lunacy.

The sheer stupidity of claiming that Kakko simply went back to Finland and decided to develop himself is astounding. Makes me wonder if one really looks at what they are typing.

 

[True Blue]

you have alot of strong feelings. It doesn't appear you watch much hockey though. These two hyper talented kids are experiencing the same lack of success under a system and coach that clearly has them moving around the ice scared. I'm not even hitting Quinn here. This approach may be what's best for them long term. But I don't see any way to deny that Kakko was tentative and slow to react last year as he adjusted to what Quinn insisted he do each shift and Laf is in the same boat. They will both be fine is the bottom line. Neither of them has prospered to date. Chytil also experienced a similar curve although he had significant time in Hartford to gain confidence and learn the system.

Wait. I am not watching hockey? If Strome or other vets bury some of Laf's chances, he has more points. If Kakko is not robbed, he has more points. But in all cases, it does not actually change how they are playing.

If you do not see mass improvements in Kakko's game and confidence, you are clearly not watching hockey and are just trying to piece things together from reading this board.

Wait an 18 year old was tentative after moving across continents, beginning to learn the NHL game and being in general an 18 year old in the NHL? A 19 year old who spent 10 months skating in a backyard ring looks tentative at times in the NHL? Shocker. Color me surprised.

 

[CupSeeker]

Wait. I am not watching hockey? If Strome or other vets bury some of Laf's chances, he has more points. If Kakko is not robbed, he has more points. But in all cases, it does not actually change how they are playing.

If you do not see mass improvements in Kakko's game and confidence, you are clearly not watching hockey and are just trying to piece things together from reading this board.

Wait an 18 year old was tentative after moving across continents, beginning to learn the NHL game and being in general an 18 year old in the NHL? A 19 year old who spent 10 months skating in a backyard ring looks tentative at times in the NHL? Shocker. Color me surprised.

I see improvement in Kakko's game and again, I'm not necessarily knocking Quinn. What I am saying is people need to give these two space to develop as they are in a system and under a coach who is forcing them to focus on 200 feet and not trying to win a Calder. No need for me to piece anything.

 

[True Blue]

I see improvement in Kakko's game and again, I'm not necessarily knocking Quinn. What I am saying is people need to give these two space to develop as they are in a system and under a coach who is forcing them to focus on 200 feet and not trying to win a Calder. No need for me to piece anything.

So they should just be allowed to do whatever they feel like? What coach is going to let an 18 year old and a 19 year old rookie do whatever they feel comfortable with on the ice? The answer is now one because the play that made them comfortable in Liga and Canadian juniors does not work when playing against the best players in the world in the best league in the world.

 

[CupSeeker]

So they should just be allowed to do whatever they feel like? What coach is going to let an 18 year old and a 19 year old rookie do whatever they feel comfortable with on the ice? The answer is now one because the play that made them comfortable in Liga and Canadian juniors does not work when playing against the best players in the world in the best league in the world.

You are an argumentative fella. Did i say any of this? I believe that part of the reason they are not flourishing offensively is Quinn and what he expects of them. Will that ultimately be bad for them long term? Don't know. btw, these aren't your run of the mill 18 and 19 year olds. Kakko dominated men at 18 in the World Championships and Laf was presented to us as having mental and physical skills beyond his years. Quinn may be unnecessarily holding them back due to his lack of experience as an NHL coach; that is what I am saying.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

You talk about Kappo like he's this world beater. The guys has 3 points in over 10 games. You really want to rest your argument on that point- If you think Kappo is a " Quinn product" than you've basically fallen on your own sword here.

Never have I said Laf is not developing. He of course will-- what I've said is Quinn's system and development approach is not well suited for development. Your boy Kappo proves that-- during last season when Quinn was in his ear he did nothing well. He left when the season came off break and looked much better. He left again for the summer and now looks even better. You think Quinn was giving him personal house visits during those times or is it more likely that his lack of development while directly connected to the coach can be more attributed to what message he was getting or overall team culture? I mean it's all conjecture because no one knows but the dots connect themselves!

I think you hate Quinn and are tying yourself in knots trying to blame him for Laff while not giving him any credit for Kakko. And I'm not stat surfing, solely judging Kakko by points. It's not that hard to see the massive difference in his play from last season to this one. I think there's a lot Quinn can be blamed for, developing the youngins is not one of them.

 

[True Blue]

Did i say any of this? I believe that part of the reason they are not flourishing offensively is Quinn and what he expects of them. Will that ultimately be bad for them long term? Don't know.

Yes, and I am pointing out that judging by what you are actually seeing on the ice, it is not the demands that Quinn is making on them but rather a) poor play of veterans and b)ridiculously poor puck luck.

btw, these aren't your run of the mill 18 and 19 year olds. Kakko dominated men at 18 in the World Championships and Laf was presented to us as having mental and physical skills beyond his years. Quinn may be unnecessarily holding them back due to his lack of experience as an NHL coach; that is what I am saying.

World Championships are a poor example to try to strengthen your argument. Half of the NHL players mail it in and are uninterested. And the top players on the top teams are away in the playoffs.

And name one single 19 year old rookie that came into the league under the same circumstances that Lafreniere did? No hockey for 10 months. The only skating was in a backyard rink. All of 2 weeks for a training camp. And zero exhibition games. Can you name one other 19 year old that came in under these circumstances in the entire history of the NHL?

 

[JHS]

I think you hate Quinn and are tying yourself in knots trying to blame him for Laff while not giving him any credit for Kakko. And I'm not stat surfing, solely judging Kakko by points. It's not that hard to see the massive difference in his play from last season to this one. I think there's a lot Quinn can be blamed for, developing the youngins is not one of them.

I think this is more about you winning an argument than actually acknowledging what is painfully obvious to anyone who watches hockey. I guess you can have it that way.

 

[CupSeeker]

Yes, and I am pointing out that judging by what you are actually seeing on the ice, it is not the demands that Quinn is making on them but rather a) poor play of veterans and b)ridiculously poor puck luck.

World Championships are a poor example to try to strengthen your argument. Half of the NHL players mail it in and are uninterested. And the top players on the top teams are away in the playoffs.

And name one single 19 year old rookie that came into the league under the same circumstances that Lafreniere did? No hockey for 10 months. The only skating was in a backyard rink. All of 2 weeks for a training camp. And zero exhibition games. Can you name one other 19 year old that came in under these circumstances in the entire history of the NHL?

The World Championship; I said men, not NHL players. The competition should be extremely difficult for a kid who just turned 18 and he flourished largely by winning puck battles and making smart plays all over the ice. It was impressive no matter how you want to characterize it. Are you suggesting the Rangers should have let Laf play in the WJC? Because Tim Steutzle is having an impact on many nights for OTT. I see both of them in their rookie years playing tentative and a little scared to make mistakes; you don't see that. We can move on.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

I think this is more about you winning an argument than actually acknowledging what is painfully obvious to anyone who watches hockey. I guess you can have it that way.

I thought it was all conjecture and you were just connecting the dots? Is it painfully obvious or your super sleuthing skills? Which one?

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

And this is why I was so disgusted yesterday. This structure was completely MIA. One of the few times it just seems like the opposition wanted it more.

They're focused on what each respectively does to somehow finish a cycle, and do very little... you're right, the communication is better, the execution is just worse.. I think it's already been a long season, like the groundhog said... but this is the PRO-cess.

It's a big-boys' game.

 

[True Blue]

The World Championship; I said men, not NHL players.

Yes. Which is what makes it a poor comparison.

Are you suggesting the Rangers should have let Laf play in the WJC? Because Tim Steutzle is having an impact on many nights for OTT.

I am not suggesting that at all. See Dach, Kirby. Steutzle's shooting perentage is as absurdly high as Laf's is low. And in less shoots no less.

I see both of them in their rookie years playing tentative and a little scared to make mistakes; you don't see that.

Being tentative at times is fairly common among teenagers in their first year in the NHL.

 

[Harbour Dog]

Kakko was one of the absolute worst players in the league last year. Now he is one of the best players on the team. Next year he will be much better.

Lafreniere already looks like he belongs in an NHL top9 this year. Next year he will be much better.

The ONLY reason we have to listen to complaints about either of them right now is because they haven't had more puck luck and got a few more ticks next to their name in the boxscore.

 

[JHS]

I thought it was all conjecture and you were just connecting the dots? Is it painfully obvious or your super sleuthing skills? Which one?

Do you get enjoyment out of being incredibly obstinate or is it just a personality trait? If you want to engage in actual hockey talk I’ll try but if you just want to be rude please stop. I’m not interested in the little snarky comments that don’t move the conversation along.

Conjecture in the sense that of course we don’t know what is said during practice,team meetings, pre and postgame meetings. Painfully obvious because I was fortunate and was born with two eyes that can see a hockey game and know what I’m watching. Hopefully that clears up any confusion you may have.

So in an effort to move the conversation along, are you willing to see the bigger picture here by acknowledging the list of players I’ve mentioned did not develop under Quinn? Hopefully we won’t add Laf to the list.

 

[McD37]

Not sure if this name was mentioned here, because I did not read all the recent pages, but one of the current greats in hockey, Leon Draisaitl, also had a terrible first year in NHL and he was even sent back to WHL. Next season he returned to Edmonton being a completely different player. Is a return to QMJHL out of question for Lafreniere? I actually think it could help him working on his game and getting some much needed confidence back.

 

[romba]

Very happy with Kakko’s game this year and Laf is miles ahead of where he was in his rookie year. So our young guns will be defensively sound instead of ROTY candidates, it’s an ok trade off. I’m confident Laf will become a consistent driver of the play by his 30th game or so.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Not sure if this name was mentioned here, because I did not read all the recent pages, but one of the current greats in hockey, Leon Draisaitl, also had a terrible first year in NHL and he was even sent back to WHL. Next season he returned to Edmonton being a completely different player. Is a return to QMJHL out of question for Lafreniere? I actually think it could help him working on his game and getting some much needed confidence back.

Yes because he isn't struggling to keep up at this level. His teammates are shooting 0% when he sets them up with an opportunity and he hasn't gotten phantom points to beef up his totals.

 

[Synergy27]

Kid was nowhere to be found tonight. Crazy thing is, the Rooney-Blackwell line looked less dangerous tonight with Laf than it has with PDG. This kid needs to do something to get himself involved.

 

[UnSandvich]

At some point, I'd like to see him with Chytil/Zibanejad & Buchnevich for a bit of time. I'd worry what Quinn would do with their ice-time, but i could see that line complementing each other nicely

 

[Machinehead]

I can't pinpoint the exact problem but I just found myself yelling "f***ing do something!" at Kakko last year.

I'm going through the same thing with Lafreniere right now. He just doesn't do anything.

Coincidence? Pattern with the coaching staff?

 

[Anthony5967]

I can't pinpoint the exact problem but I just found myself yelling "f***ing do something!" at Kakko last year.

I'm going through the same thing with Lafreniere right now. He just doesn't do anything.

Coincidence? Pattern with the coaching staff?

It is coaching, 100%.