Value of: Alexis Lafrenière in a trade

[Fatass]

Laffy worth a mid 2nd LOL. Some people are really out of their minds here. Said it once and ill say it again, hfboards is the only place on earth where the majority of people would prefer 3 1st’s rather than a cup

Would the Rangers match a 4.2 mil offer sheet or take the second round pick as compensation?

 

[ole ole]

I think the best option for the Rangers is to give him another shot and then if they don't see any improvement than consider a trade.

What is the proportion of 2nd round picks than even get one 40 pts season in the NHL? And who between Lafrenière or a 2nd round pick has the higher probability of breaking out?

Trading him for a 2nd would be nonsense.

If he moves he moves in a bigger deal as an add on.

 

[ole ole]

I acknowledge this and agree.

To be fair, my proposal was a clear upgrade on what Yakupov returned. 2nd (potentially high if coming from a bad team) + B prospect (likely recentish 2nd round pick) >>> 3rd (from a playoff team) + a busting 4th round prospect.

I am not saying NYR should do this. But it’s a gamble (for both sides entertaining such a trade) as Laf could easily be diminishing returns and his value will drop exponentially over the next couple seasons. I think my Garland trade above made more sense for NYR from a competitive standpoint.

The 2nd is only a throw-in. It all depends on the B prospect. They want someone that has a shot at playing in the NHL. If not the easily keep Laf.
While being a bust so far he can still contribute.
If the Rangers runs out of space for him than they can dump him.

TML
Nylander with 8x8.5 extension

NYR
LaFreniere
2024 1st that drops to a second if he scores more than 55 points in is first year with TML

If the Rangers can fit Nylander under the cap i would be all over that deal.

 

[smoneil]

Dach is a far better skater, far better passer, and has the much higher hockey iq. As the poster you responded to said, he’s shown flashes from the very beginning. His value is so much higher than Lafreniere, it’s not close.

To paraphrase Colonel Potter, that is 100%, grade A, bull cookies. Dach is a better skater. That's it. Laf has made some absurdly good passes and has shown plenty of flashes of his draft status. This issue isn't his IQ--it's how he's being used. For most of his NHL career, Laf has been put on the 3rd line and told not to screw up (when screw ups happened, he'd get stapled to the bench or dropped to the 4th line). His job was not to lose the game (while hoping that Bread, ZIb, Kreider, etc would win the game). Any offense he contributed was great, but it was his primary role not to make any mistakes. Laf doesn't have low hockey IQ. The problem is that the Rangers have (stupidly) been developing him to have the mind-set of a 3rd liner. There's a reason top picks get top time even when they look horrible in the beginning. You need to develop that mindset that they need to be "the guy" and take chances.

Contrast that with Dach--put into a top six role from just about day one. Force fed PP time. His role was to do what he could to win the game. And even then, when you evaluate the two based solely on the things they have in common (ES usage), Laf's production is significantly better. Dach is a good player getting better opportunities. At best, they are a wash in value. Realistically? I don't think you'd find too many GMs who would take Dach over Laf given the choice. And that's not a knock on Dach.

To be fair, if Dach keeps getting the opportunities he has, and Laf keeps getting relegated to the 3rd line, I DO think Dach will go on to have the better career. What the Rangers are doing to Laf is an absolute shit way to develop a highly drafted player. Hence my preference for moving (retained) Panarin to open up cap space, top 6 and PP time for Laf, and maybe address some of the other issues in the roster/prospect pool.

Only on HF will anyone compare Laff to Dach.

NHL2000 in some is strong...

I broke down usage, the sizeable gap in ES production, regular line-mates, and trends in the shooting % between the two players.

You got anything besides sarcasm, or can we chalk your opinion up to pure homerism?

 

[smoneil]

Would the Rangers match a 4.2 mil offer sheet or take the second round pick as compensation?

They'd be pissed off at having to do it, but I think they would.

 

[smoneil]

Raw number output doesn’t tell the whole story.

Yakupov peaked in his rookie season and went downhill from there, never being able to recreate the success he found in his freshman campaign.

If you haven’t noticed, Lafreniere‘s numbers have steadily increased year over year showing progression in his game over his 3 years in the league - the situations are completely different re: Yakupov and Lafreniere.

If Ridly Greig came into next year and scored 39 points in 80 games, Senators fans would be esctatic about that. He was in the same draft class as Lafreniere, has only played a few NHL games and I doubt you’d find any Sens fans that would trade him for a 2nd and ”B” Prospect.

I feel like you’re getting caught up on a narrative here - Lafreniere is a dissapointing selection at this point in time, but he is absolutuey Worth more than Yakupov at this point in their respective careers.

I‘d like to see what Laffy can do under a new coach this season, I think it will be great for his game. Okay

Added to this, Yakupov was horrendous defensively (career -89), and was always a threat to bounce back to Russia. He was always a top-six or bust player. If things go horrendously for Laf and he remains exactly the player he is today, he's still a great player to have on the 3rd line. That couldn't be said for Yakupov.

 

[hawksrule]

To paraphrase Colonel Potter, that is 100%, grade A, bull cookies. Dach is a better skater. That's it. Laf has made some absurdly good passes and has shown plenty of flashes of his draft status. This issue isn't his IQ--it's how he's being used. For most of his NHL career, Laf has been put on the 3rd line and told not to screw up (when screw ups happened, he'd get stapled to the bench or dropped to the 4th line). His job was not to lose the game (while hoping that Bread, ZIb, Kreider, etc would win the game). Any offense he contributed was great, but it was his primary role not to make any mistakes. Laf doesn't have low hockey IQ. The problem is that the Rangers have (stupidly) been developing him to have the mind-set of a 3rd liner. There's a reason top picks get top time even when they look horrible in the beginning. You need to develop that mindset that they need to be "the guy" and take chances.

Contrast that with Dach--put into a top six role from just about day one. Force fed PP time. His role was to do what he could to win the game. And even then, when you evaluate the two based solely on the things they have in common (ES usage), Laf's production is significantly better. Dach is a good player getting better opportunities. At best, they are a wash in value. Realistically? I don't think you'd find too many GMs who would take Dach over Laf given the choice. And that's not a knock on Dach.

To be fair, if Dach keeps getting the opportunities he has, and Laf keeps getting relegated to the 3rd line, I DO think Dach will go on to have the better career. What the Rangers are doing to Laf is an absolute shit way to develop a highly drafted player. Hence my preference for moving (retained) Panarin to open up cap space, top 6 and PP time for Laf, and maybe address some of the other issues in the roster/prospect pool.


I broke down usage, the sizeable gap in ES production, regular line-mates, and trends in the shooting % between the two players.

You got anything besides sarcasm, or can we chalk your opinion up to pure homerism?

I don’t think you would find a single gm who today would take Lafreniere over Dach. Not one.

 

[smoneil]

I don’t think you would find a single gm who today would take Lafreniere over Dach. Not one.

And I think that's a ridiculous assertion. When you compare the two at ES (which is the only way they CAN be compared when you consider usage), Laf has been significantly better despite being a year younger. NHL GMs recognize context and aren't as quick to dismiss a player for being buried behind Bread and Kreider on a depth chart.

Again--Dach has been given the opportunities and minutes you expect to see a top pick get, while Laf has never had those minutes/opportunities, and Laf has still been better despite being a year younger. Do I think some GMs would still take Dach? Sure--some might value centers more, some might be looking for more of a sure thing on the PP, and some might just be morons. But I think the vast majority would go for Laf.

 

[One Winged Angel]

TML
Nylander with 8x8.5 extension

NYR
LaFreniere
2024 1st that drops to a second if he scores more than 55 points in is first year with TML

Rangers couldn’t do this with the cap.

 

[cheech70]

Logan Cooley

 

[One Winged Angel]

Would the Rangers match a 4.2 mil offer sheet or take the second round pick as compensation?

They would easily match the offer sheet.

 

[KevinRedkey]

Laf is one of those players where the team acquiring him would have to give up more than they’d like, but to the Rangers he’s still a good player with untapped potential and cheap during a cap crunchy.

He wouldn't be cheap if a team offer-sheeted him for 4.200 for 1-2yrs.

Comp is only a 2nd round pick, and would put the Rangers in a tough spot IMO.

 

[Fatass]

They would easily match the offer sheet.

I think the question isn’t about if they could afford him at that cost but more so whether they would want to. 4.2 is a big number for Lafrenière. But the compensation is only a second rounder, which seems light for him if he was traded.

 

[Mersss]

They would easily match the offer sheet.

They don't have the $ to do so.

If they match they can't extend KAM

 

[hawksrule]

And I think that's a ridiculous assertion. When you compare the two at ES (which is the only way they CAN be compared when you consider usage), Laf has been significantly better despite being a year younger. NHL GMs recognize context and aren't as quick to dismiss a player for being buried behind Bread and Kreider on a depth chart.

Again--Dach has been given the opportunities and minutes you expect to see a top pick get, while Laf has never had those minutes/opportunities, and Laf has still been better despite being a year younger. Do I think some GMs would still take Dach? Sure--some might value centers more, some might be looking for more of a sure thing on the PP, and some might just be morons. But I think the vast majority would go for Laf.

I find your assertion ridiculous, so I guess we can call it even. Lafreniere does nothing well. He can’t skate, he doesn’t see the ice, his shot is average, his motor is average. Two seasons ago he scored 19 goals on a bunch of tap ins, and those count, but there’s no facet of the game in which he stands out. Based on his scouting reports you’d think it’s a different person. Dach may not put it all together, but he’s made big strides, and one can easily see it happening. Lafreniere is tracking to be no better than an average middle sixer. You can cherry-pick stats all you want, Dach is obviously the better player with higher upside.

 

[ole ole]

To paraphrase Colonel Potter, that is 100%, grade A, bull cookies. Dach is a better skater. That's it. Laf has made some absurdly good passes and has shown plenty of flashes of his draft status. This issue isn't his IQ--it's how he's being used. For most of his NHL career, Laf has been put on the 3rd line and told not to screw up (when screw ups happened, he'd get stapled to the bench or dropped to the 4th line). His job was not to lose the game (while hoping that Bread, ZIb, Kreider, etc would win the game). Any offense he contributed was great, but it was his primary role not to make any mistakes. Laf doesn't have low hockey IQ. The problem is that the Rangers have (stupidly) been developing him to have the mind-set of a 3rd liner. There's a reason top picks get top time even when they look horrible in the beginning. You need to develop that mindset that they need to be "the guy" and take chances.

Contrast that with Dach--put into a top six role from just about day one. Force fed PP time. His role was to do what he could to win the game. And even then, when you evaluate the two based solely on the things they have in common (ES usage), Laf's production is significantly better. Dach is a good player getting better opportunities. At best, they are a wash in value. Realistically? I don't think you'd find too many GMs who would take Dach over Laf given the choice. And that's not a knock on Dach.

To be fair, if Dach keeps getting the opportunities he has, and Laf keeps getting relegated to the 3rd line, I DO think Dach will go on to have the better career. What the Rangers are doing to Laf is an absolute shit way to develop a highly drafted player. Hence my preference for moving (retained) Panarin to open up cap space, top 6 and PP time for Laf, and maybe address some of the other issues in the roster/prospect pool.


I broke down usage, the sizeable gap in ES production, regular line-mates, and trends in the shooting % between the two players.

You got anything besides sarcasm, or can we chalk your opinion up to pure homerism?

Bottom line. Laf will never get you Dach this yr.

 

[HabsAddict]

.

You got anything besides sarcasm, or can we chalk your opinion up to pure homerism?

You have no idea how little I care what "you broke down". The two are not comparable and nobody is going to trade one for the other.

Move along...

 

[LaffyTaffy13]

Would the Rangers match a 4.2 mil offer sheet or take the second round pick as compensation?

Lol match in a nanosecond

 

[smoneil]

You have no idea how little I care what "you broke down". The two are not comparable and nobody is going to trade one for the other.

Move along...

So just sarcasm, huh?

 

[smoneil]

Bottom line. Laf will never get you Dach this yr.

Hey look, there's a line below that. It reads: "We aren't the ones proposing Laf trades." Whether or not what you say is true (and even if Laf were on the market, I doubt they would target a C at all, as Dach wouldn't play over Zib, Trocheck, or Chytil), the bottom line is that--as the inquiring team in this scenario--Dach wouldn't get you Laf. Pieces worth less than Dach won't get you Laf. It's perfectly fine for you to think that this isn't fair value, but those are the prices. If you don't like them, shop at a different store.

I'm tired of the biweekly threads where fans of other teams offer peanuts for our player and then get pissed off when we don't agree. If Laf is as shit as you all seem to think he is, then STOP TRYING TO TRADE FOR HIM.

 

[TGWL]

I wouldn't even waste a conditional 7th on the verified bust.

You're that guy at the high school lunch table that says things like "I'd let you punch me in the face for $10 bucks".

 

[TGWL]

I don’t think you would find a single gm who today would take Lafreniere over Dach. Not one.

Why today? When people compare value and say similar trade to Dach (whether that happens or not), they're comparing it at the time he was traded. Not for what he's done since. That's a little unfair, no?

 

[ole ole]

Hey look, there's a line below that. It reads: "We aren't the ones proposing Laf trades." Whether or not what you say is true (and even if Laf were on the market, I doubt they would target a C at all, as Dach wouldn't play over Zib, Trocheck, or Chytil), the bottom line is that--as the inquiring team in this scenario--Dach wouldn't get you Laf. Pieces worth less than Dach won't get you Laf. It's perfectly fine for you to think that this isn't fair value, but those are the prices. If you don't like them, shop at a different store.

I'm tired of the biweekly threads where fans of other teams offer peanuts for our player and then get pissed off when we don't agree. If Laf is as shit as you all seem to think he is, then STOP TRYING TO TRADE FOR HIM.

I'M NOT TRYING TO TRADE FOR HIM.
BOTTOM LINE NO CHANCE IN HELL lAF WOULD NET YOU DACH.

 

[LionsHeart]

He wouldn't be cheap if a team offer-sheeted him for 4.200 for 1-2yrs.

Comp is only a 2nd round pick, and would put the Rangers in a tough spot IMO.

I’d imagine the Rangers would match that.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

I’d imagine the Rangers would match that.

They would match it, but it would really tank Laf’s value if he continues to be a 30-40 point player. Particularly because it would create an inflated qualifying offer on his next contract, which would impact his value for any new team looking to trade for him.