Value of: Alexis Lafrenière in a trade

[TGWL]

I mean that sort of feeling is consistent with basically every 2nd unit in the League, bit 276.4 "tick down" minutes is basically impossible.

How many pp points does Trouba have?
How many powerplay points does Chytil have?
How many powerplay points does Kakko have?

I get what you're saying. Could they all just blow on the powerplay? Sure. Absolutely. But it could also be the deployed is pretty bad.

 

[HuGort]

What would Rangers want?

 

[hawksrule]

It must be unbelievably disappointing to have your #1OA fall light years short of expectations, but there’s some massive mental gymnastic copium in this thread trying to portray him as a much better player than he plainly is.

 

[smoneil]

I do agree that he would likely be able to find more consistency on the Powerplay and thus produce at a better rate, with a more steady spoonfeeding of minutes. I just disagree that a player that played 111.4 minutes on the powerplay last season was "only" getting the time where the puck left the zone and there's only like 10 seconds left (the time it takes to re-establish). That's just not really possible with that much time. The Rangers had 245 Powerplay Opportunities on the season, on the whole their PP% was 7th best in the League. If the 2nd Unit was very UNPRODUCTIVE as a whole, that means the 1st unit was likely very productive. Lafreniere didn't seem to have the ability to boost the 2nd Unit up to a more productive level (can't blame him entirely, but it doesn't appear he was helping given his low rate) and that combined with a productive 1st Unit suggests he didn't do anything to really earn a greater Powerplay role.

A broken Patrick Kane joined the Rangers at the deadline and produced 1 more Powerplay for the Rangers in less than half the total Powerplay ice time than Lafreniere did. To be a top player, Lafreniere is going to need to figure out how to produce on the powerplay more.

I think a lot of it is mental. There were some games where Laf would get 2-3 minutes of PP time. But those games would be few and far between, as most nights he would get 20 second or no time at all. At one point the second unit wasn't even treated AS a PP unit. Gallant sent out the Kid line with two defensemen to cover the last 15-20 seconds.

It's about consistency and being able to get into a groove and build that confidence. That's why top draft picks are spoon-fed minutes early in their careers even when they look like crap at first. They are used to being "the guy" on their team. They are used to having those expectations. On the Rangers, other players had those expectations, and Laf's role has too often been undefined. You can tell when he's in his own head, too, because when he gets in a funk, he stops shooting almost entirely.

Bottom line--the Rangers have screwed up his development. They had one of the best LW's in the league in Panarin, and another, in Kreider, who recently put up a 50 goal season. It's understandable to decide not to supplant one of them with a kid who hadn't proven anything and looked like crap to start his rookie year. But they should have sent him to Hartford to get those minutes and continue to develop as a top-line threat. Laf still shows flashes, and his even-strength production actually isn't far off from where you want it to be. But if they want to have any chance of seeing Laf develop into what he was supposed to be, they need to create space for him on the top line and in the PP and make it clear that winning games is his job and he's not going to be demoted to the bottom six every time he makes a bad play. Players like that NEED that pressure and that freedom. Thus far in NY, Laf has had neither.

 

[smoneil]

What would Rangers want?

The only thing that would make sense to me is a RW version of Laf, and no such player exists. (and before anyone starts tossing out their RW busts, I mean a player under 22, drafted in the top 3, who has actually had success similar to Laf's .5ppg and excellent ES production, who has mitigating factors for not yet blowing up ala being buried behind two top players).

Barring that, why bother taking a pittance? Might as well keep what we have and take the gamble ourselves.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I say keep him on the Rags while we wait for him to develop into a 3rd liner. These 40 point even-strength analystics darlings are extremely valuable.

 

[WarriorofTime]

I think a lot of it is mental. There were some games where Laf would get 2-3 minutes of PP time. But those games would be few and far between, as most nights he would get 20 second or no time at all. At one point the second unit wasn't even treated AS a PP unit. Gallant sent out the Kid line with two defensemen to cover the last 15-20 seconds.

It's about consistency and being able to get into a groove and build that confidence. That's why top draft picks are spoon-fed minutes early in their careers even when they look like crap at first. They are used to being "the guy" on their team. They are used to having those expectations. On the Rangers, other players had those expectations, and Laf's role has too often been undefined. You can tell when he's in his own head, too, because when he gets in a funk, he stops shooting almost entirely.

Bottom line--the Rangers have screwed up his development. They had one of the best LW's in the league in Panarin, and another, in Kreider, who recently put up a 50 goal season. It's understandable to decide not to supplant one of them with a kid who hadn't proven anything and looked like crap to start his rookie year. But they should have sent him to Hartford to get those minutes and continue to develop as a top-line threat. Laf still shows flashes, and his even-strength production actually isn't far off from where you want it to be. But if they want to have any chance of seeing Laf develop into what he was supposed to be, they need to create space for him on the top line and in the PP and make it clear that winning games is his job and he's not going to be demoted to the bottom six every time he makes a bad play. Players like that NEED that pressure and that freedom. Thus far in NY, Laf has had neither.

These high draft picks get caught in No Man's Land sometimes because they can't get sent down to the AHL while they are still in Junior-aged seasons due to the NHL's agreement with the CHL. They'd have to go back to their Junior teams. So once a kid makes the team and passes the games threshold (and it's sort of the expectation for a number 1 pick), they tend to be stuck. And once they've played a season or two under their belt, sending them down once they've aged out of Junior eligibility would probably be an even bigger blow to their confidence.

 

[bernmeister]

Weird how he didn’t really do that after he got top 6 time last season.

I’m not saying he can’t/won’t breakout, just going off the evidence so far.

Out of context attempt to change narrative will not succeed.
I did not say LaF in top 6 by himself, where chemistry may/may not be something better or worse than kid line

I said the whole kid line at 2nd line at worst, consider even 1st line mins

So the dif is LaF WITH proven linemates
for many mo mins

 

[One Winged Angel]

They don't have the $ to do so.

If they match they can't extend KAM

That’s factually incorrect and they can move cap.

Then again, your entire existence on HF is to bash the Rangers, so I shouldn’t expect you to try to look at anything logically that requires more than surface level analysis.

 

[One Winged Angel]

I find your assertion ridiculous, so I guess we can call it even. Lafreniere does nothing well. He can’t skate, he doesn’t see the ice, his shot is average, his motor is average. Two seasons ago he scored 19 goals on a bunch of tap ins, and those count, but there’s no facet of the game in which he stands out. Based on his scouting reports you’d think it’s a different person. Dach may not put it all together, but he’s made big strides, and one can easily see it happening. Lafreniere is tracking to be no better than an average middle sixer. You can cherry-pick stats all you want, Dach is obviously the better player with higher upside.

You claim he Cherry picks stats, while you clearly don’t watch him if you think he “can’t see the ice” and “has an average shot.”

Your assertion is completely invalid if that’s what you “see”. How about you sign up for center ice and watch some games on the boards with us this year.

And trust me, I’m not gonna hold my breath.

 

[WarriorofTime]

That’s factually incorrect and they can move cap.

Then again, your entire existence on HF is to bash the Rangers, so I shouldn’t expect you to try to look at anything logically that requires more than surface level analysis.

The Rangers are in a cap crunch, so that is why a trade is on the table. They are going to have a bit of awkward negotiation where they basically have to tell Lafreniere that they think he's kind of a bust in the hopes of getting him to sign for a lower number. Their other options will likely involving cap dumping, which could be hard because a lot of the big contracts have no trade lists.

 

[One Winged Angel]

The Rangers are in a cap crunch, so that is why a trade is on the table. They are going to have a bit of awkward negotiation where they basically have to tell Lafreniere that they think he's kind of a bust in the hopes of getting him to sign for a lower number. Their other options will likely involving cap dumping, which could be hard because a lot of the big contracts have no trade lists.

Who says a Lafrenière trade is on the table?

The same people who have flip-flopped several times over on the coaching search?

Keep taking their word as gospel. I’ll stick to the guys connected to the organization.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Who says a Lafrenière trade is on the table?

The same people who have flip-flopped several times over on the coaching search?

Keep taking their word as gospel. I’ll stick to the guys connected to the organization.

Well this is a discussion board, so this is for discussion. But if you already know what's going to happen, what do you think he signs for and who do you think gets moved and for what in order to sign him?

 

[Mersss]

That’s factually incorrect and they can move cap.

Then again, your entire existence on HF is to bash the Rangers, so I shouldn’t expect you to try to look at anything logically that requires more than surface level analysis.

Yah sure.

Just depends on many 1st picks Rags are willing yo cough up to trade their overpaid 4th lines like Goodrow...

 

[hawksrule]

You claim he Cherry picks stats, while you clearly don’t watch him if you think he “can’t see the ice” and “has an average shot.”

Your assertion is completely invalid if that’s what you “see”. How about you sign up for center ice and watch some games on the boards with us this year.

And trust me, I’m not gonna hold my breath.

Don’t need center ice, I watch him on MSG. He’s at best an average middle sixer who processes slowly and has an average shot. Also can’t skate. If you think higher of his abilities, that’s your prerogative.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Well this is a discussion board, so this is for discussion. But if you already know what's going to happen, what do you think he signs for and who do you think gets moved and for what in order to sign him?

Now you’re moving the goalposts. Originally, you said a trade is on the table.

Now that I’ve debunked your sources, you’re moving toward discussion and prognostication?

Go figure.

Don’t need center ice, I watch him on MSG. He’s at best an average middle sixer who processes slowly and has an average shot. Also can’t skate. If you think higher of his abilities, that’s your prerogative.

No, you clearly don’t. Because you have very little clue of what you’re talking about.

That’s not my prerogative, that’s your incorrect perspective. I’ve watched every shift in his career. If you think “he processes slowly” and “has an average shot,” then you should stop talking about him for your own sake, because you couldn’t be more wrong.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Yah sure.

Just depends on many 1st picks Rags are willing yo cough up to trade their overpaid 4th lines like Goodrow...

Right.

That’s why you’re going on block. Nothing a but troll.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Now you’re moving the goalposts. Originally, you said a trade is on the table.

Now that I’ve debunked your sources, you’re moving toward discussion and prognostication?

Go figure.

Lol, you've debunked nothing. You just seem to be sticking your fingers in your ears and pretending the Rangers aren't in a cap crunch. Again, if a trade is not happening, what do you think is likely? Something has gotta give one way or the other, that's just a fact. This is not moving goal posts, it is directly relevant for the thread.

 

[hawksrule]

Now you’re moving the goalposts. Originally, you said a trade is on the table.

Now that I’ve debunked your sources, you’re moving toward discussion and prognostication?

Go figure.


No, you clearly don’t. Because you have very little clue of what you’re talking about.

That’s not my prerogative, that’s your incorrect perspective. I’ve watched every shift in his career. If you think “he processes slowly” and “has an average shot,” then you should stop talking about him for your own sake, because you couldn’t be more wrong.

Your emphatic assertion doesn’t change anything. He is what he is, which is basically very average with no plus skills. Attacking me might make you feel good, but it’s empty rhetoric.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

No, you clearly don’t. Because you have very little clue of what you’re talking about.

That’s not my prerogative, that’s your incorrect perspective. I’ve watched every shift in his career. If you think “he processes slowly” and “has an average shot,” then you should stop talking about him for your own sake, because you couldn’t be more wrong.

He definitely struggles with processing quick enough at times, and while he has a good shot when he has time and space to get it off, it takes him a while to get it off. Additionally, it often takes him too long to realize it's time to shoot, and he ends up skating/stickhandling himself out of a scoring position.

 

[GAGLine]

What would Rangers want?

More than you'd be willing to pay.