Player Discussion Alex DeBrincat

[bicboi64]

Serviceable, cheap player for the bottom 6, young, low potential NHLer, and a pick or prospect.

Reason I'm okay with that type of return, the flexibility it gives us to shore up goaltending and further cement our depth probably makes us stronger overall than relying on Greig Pinto Joseph to just be "better"

 

[Hale The Villain]

If Debrincat isn't re-signed, that's bad news for the future top 6 of this team.

• Giroux is going to be 35 next year. At some point, he'll take a step back.
• After this year, Batherson looks much more like a PP specialist who needs to be sheltered at ES than a top-end guy (aka Mike Hoffman).
• Pinto and Greig are more likely to be 3rd liners
• We didn't have a 1st round pick last year, don't have one this year, and none of Boucher, Ostapchuk, etc project to be offensive players.

We have Stützle and Tkachuk. Norris I think is a safe bet. But after that? A whole lot of question marks.

We have to keep him and not trade him for 50 cents on the dollar.

We don't necessarily need 6 legit top 6 players to have a good top 6.

Stutzle is a superstar, Tkachuk is a star, Norris and Batherson are top line talents, and I'm optimistic that Giroux will be able to provide top 6 quality play throughout his late 30s like Alfie did. That's 5/6 spots filled with players more than able to meet expectations.

Taking half of DeBrincat's 8-9M salary and allocating it towards a decent 2nd liner and using the rest to add a good goalie is probably the smarter move.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I want to cycle back on this post where you commented on Dorion without leverage

Stuetzle didn't have to sign a contract last summer. Dorion has zero leverage to make that happen. But it did happen. 8 years at 8.35.

Suppose it didn't happen. Tim plays out his ELC as is pretty common. Like Tkachuk did. Timmy posts 90 points. Some guy tweets that the only players to post 90 points in their 21 year old season since the 06 lockout we're Crosby, Ovechkin, Stamkos and McDavid.

So, where are we right now if Tim is without contract? Certainly we're looking at a deal that is well north of 10 AAV. Possibly 11 AAV.

Marner has a 10.9 AAV deal and he had a 69 point 21 year old season. He's a winger. Timmy is a centre.

Not much of a stretch to think that Timmy could sign a 10.85 AAV deal if he hadn't signed last summer. What's the difference there? 20 million.

So without any leverage Dorion signed Stuetzle to an 8 year deal that probably saved the franchise 20 million and provided 2.5 in cap space for 8 years to be used elsewhere.

You don't win every deal you make nor do you lose every deal you make. This particular deal may well be viewed as the best contract in the league as early as next year. Without leverage

Add Baths deal and we have a savings of a full player, or an increase for a guy like DBC, good player to star player. Great signing.

Brady‘S deal is also already looking like a cash savings on AAV.

 

[WORLDSTARHIPHOP]

he gawn

 

[Hale The Villain]

I want to cycle back on this post where you commented on Dorion without leverage

Stuetzle didn't have to sign a contract last summer. Dorion has zero leverage to make that happen. But it did happen. 8 years at 8.35.

Suppose it didn't happen. Tim plays out his ELC as is pretty common. Like Tkachuk did. Timmy posts 90 points. Some guy tweets that the only players to post 90 points in their 21 year old season since the 06 lockout we're Crosby, Ovechkin, Stamkos and McDavid.

So, where are we right now if Tim is without contract? Certainly we're looking at a deal that is well north of 10 AAV. Possibly 11 AAV.

Marner has a 10.9 AAV deal and he had a 69 point 21 year old season. He's a winger. Timmy is a centre.

Not much of a stretch to think that Timmy could sign a 10.85 AAV deal if he hadn't signed last summer. What's the difference there? 20 million.

So without any leverage Dorion signed Stuetzle to an 8 year deal that probably saved the franchise 20 million and provided 2.5 in cap space for 8 years to be used elsewhere.

You don't win every deal you make nor do you lose every deal you make. This particular deal may well be viewed as the best contract in the league as early as next year. Without leverage

No one besides you is under the impression Dorion talked Stutzle into signing a contract that guarantees him 67M over the next 8 years.

Had nothing to do with leverage. Stutzle wanted to secure his future and the Sens wanted to lock him up long-term

These kind of deals with first time RFAs are very common. Instances like Marner or Matthews are not, and pretending that they are to insist it was some kind of great accomplishment to get Stutzle locked up on a long-term contract is silly.

 

[OD99]

No one besides you is under the impression Dorion talked Stutzle into signing a contract that guarantees him 67M over the next 8 years.

Had nothing to do with leverage. Stutzle wanted to secure his future and the Sens wanted to lock him up long-term

These kind of deals with first time RFAs are very common. Instances like Marner or Matthews are not, and pretending that they are to insist it was some kind of great accomplishment to get Stutzle locked up on a long-term contract is silly.

I think that is a little harsh. There was lots of reasons for Timmy to think he could bet on himself and have a break-out year, thus setting himself up for a much bigger pay day.

He was PPG for pretty much the last half of last season, the writing was on the wall that he was going to amp up his production. The fact that everyone seemed to love it and believe it was incredible value right away is a good indication it favoured the Senators.

Anyway, not trying to make too much out of it, but to dismiss it out of hand isn't right either.

One of my largest concerns is IF we do get rid of DBC, we won't get enough value back and more importantly, I don't have faith in our pro scouting to allocate the new funds appropriately.

To me, this is an easy, "bird in the hand scenario".

 

[SpezDispenser]

I don't think his quotes mean anything. I think it's all part of the process.

That said, as much as I think it's a mistake to let a bonafide top 30 goalscorer in the league (since he entered it) go, I'd take a wicked 2 way, big winger who can score 30 please.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

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I would have preferred he said... I love this team and would love to be a part of the future. I'll leave the rest up to my agent.
He was so no committal in which way he is leaning.. I have heard it before and it did not end with the player staying.

I think statements that we will qualify him are premature. This is all Dorion trying to be OPTIMISTIC and not willing to accept he gave up a lot for a player here short term much like he did with Duchene.

 

[JD1]

No one besides you is under the impression Dorion talked Stutzle into signing a contract that guarantees him 67M over the next 8 years.

Had nothing to do with leverage. Stutzle wanted to secure his future and the Sens wanted to lock him up long-term

These kind of deals with first time RFAs are very common. Instances like Marner or Matthews are not, and pretending that they are to insist it was some kind of great accomplishment to get Stutzle locked up on a long-term contract is silly.

Well then, given the trend of locking up young stars coming off ELCs is relatively new, and you being an expert, why don't you run down the list of young star players that signed a team friendly long term deal a year early

Look at his draft year
Lafreniere no
Byfield no
Stuetzle yes
Raymond no, only played two years
Sanderson no, hopefully this summer
Drysdale no

It was a steal of a deal that may end up the league's most team friendly deal and it's not that common that the player signs a year early

 

[BondraTime]

I don't think his quotes mean anything. I think it's all part of the process.

That said, as much as I think it's a mistake to let a bonafide top 30 goalscorer in the league (since he entered it) go, I'd take a wicked 2 way, big winger who can score 30 please.

Will get closer to a 15-15 guy in return for DBC, should he be traded

 

[JD1]

I think that is a little harsh. There was lots of reasons for Timmy to think he could bet on himself and have a break-out year, thus setting himself up for a much bigger pay day.

He was PPG for pretty much the last half of last season, the writing was on the wall that he was going to amp up his production. The fact that everyone seemed to love it and believe it was incredible value right away is a good indication it favoured the Senators.

Anyway, not trying to make too much out of it, but to dismiss it out of hand isn't right either.

One of my largest concerns is IF we do get rid of DBC, we won't get enough value back and more importantly, I don't have faith in our pro scouting to allocate the new funds appropriately.

To me, this is an easy, "bird in the hand scenario".

It's not a little harsh, it's Hale being Hale, part of the internet angry mob I referred to earlier today

 

[GCK]

If Debrincat isn't re-signed, that's bad news for the future top 6 of this team.

• Giroux is going to be 35 next year. At some point, he'll take a step back.
• After this year, Batherson looks much more like a PP specialist who needs to be sheltered at ES than a top-end guy (aka Mike Hoffman).
• Pinto and Greig are more likely to be 3rd liners
• We didn't have a 1st round pick last year, don't have one this year, and none of Boucher, Ostapchuk, etc project to be offensive players.

We have Stützle and Tkachuk. Norris I think is a safe bet. But after that? A whole lot of question marks.

We have to keep him and not trade him for 50 cents on the dollar.

Your description of Batherson is exactly how I would describe Debrincat.

 

[SpezDispenser]

Will get closer to a 15-15 guy in return for DBC, should he be traded

In return? Fine. As long as we sign someone or trade for someone.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Your description of Batherson is exactly how I would describe Debrincat.

Based on this year, sure. But at least Debrincat has a 4-year track record to fall back on. Batherson has ~50 games.

And even with the offensive struggles, Debrincat gave an effort in his own end. Batherson struggled offensively and played pond hockey all season.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

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I would have preferred he said... I love this team and would love to be a part of the future. I'll leave the rest up to my agent.
He was so no committal in which way he is leaning.. I have heard it before and it did not end with the player staying.

I think statements that we will qualify him are premature. This is all Dorion trying to be OPTIMISTIC and not willing to accept he gave up a lot for a player here short term much like he did with Duchene.

I agree with this. Nothing egregious there, but leaves me with no hope he's staying. Going to be an interesting offseason.

 

[GCK]

Based on this year, sure. But at least Debrincat has a 4-year track record to fall back on. Batherson has ~50 games worth.

I’ll say if both bounce back Batherson is the better player not to mention a much better contract.

 

[BondraTime]

In return? Fine. As long as we sign someone or trade for someone.

Yeah, I'd think we'd be getting a warm body to play, 2ndish pick/young bottom 6 ceiling player, and a B type prospect.

We'd get the most "value" in a futures package, probably late 1st + 2nd + prospect, but will be looking for NHL bodies

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Will get closer to a 15-15 guy in return for DBC, should he be traded

If thats what we'd get I'd prefer futures. A late 1st and a prospect... We no way recover what we gave up. Sens could bring Formenton back ( guessing he'd be cleared to play) .. Forward UFAs 4m and under ; 2022-23 Active NHL Players - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps
Several on that list to look at

 

[SpezDispenser]

Yeah, I'd think we'd be getting a warm body to play, 2ndish pick/young bottom 6 ceiling player, and a B type prospect.

We'd get the most "value" in a futures package, probably late 1st + 2nd + prospect, but will be looking for NHL bodies

I'm nervous then, because it means Dorion has to pick the best package - and if it's a 1st + 2nd etc, he needs to turn that around for a semi-impact 2nd line player presumably.

 

[Adele Dazeem]

Let him go...big deal.

With the money saved, they can bring in a 2nd line winger who make 4-5-6M/year and we wouldn't notice a substantial difference; hell we might even get lucky and pickup a guy who has more potential...

Buh-Bye

 

[dmarc]

If he isn't looking to stay long term, which preferred teams would be able to trade for him and what would they be looking to send back? The biggest needs for the Sens are in goal and on the wing.

Assen na yo!

Hard to say, his value is diminished from what we traded him for, and I would rather get a young player vs picks, a three way trade with Det to get Cat, Phi picks and prospects and Ottawa Konecny would be something to look at

 

[Adele Dazeem]

A DBC trade is incredibly awkward for the Sens.

When trading a guy like him, there’s usually 2 set in stone principals.

The team looking to trade him is looking for futures (Hawks last year) the team looking to add him is trying to contend and trade futures (Sens last year).

Moving him now, after giving a big futures laden package less than a year ago including 7th overall, the Sens can’t get a futures based deal. That just doesn’t work, and would be utter incompetence.

A trade of DBC is going to be a stinky, stinky pile. Will be a much lesser player to step in now and some pretty paltry secondary pieces.

The teams looking to trade for him aren’t going to want to trade immediate NHL value, or good young value. It will be trams looking at future based deals.

The value in trading him would be almost entirely in the open cap and salary space, which has a lot of value.

Getting a ~3 million dollar 2nd/3rd liner tweener, late 1st/2nd round pick and a B prospect would be my guess.

Well, why are you dismissing the fact that it might be possible to "steal" some hidden gems from the team trading for him.
I know we don't have a decent pro scouting department, but it's possible.

 

[Ouroboros]

The vibes were off from day 1.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Let him go...big deal.

With the money saved, they can bring in a 2nd line winger who make 4-5-6M/year and we wouldn't notice a substantial difference; hell we might even get lucky and pickup a guy who has more potential...

Buh-Bye

Sure .. as long as he isn't qualified at 9m.
Move him and move on. Another mistake made; assets lost. We get it. Its Pierre Dorion.
I said it weeks ago. Mistake to trade for him with no clue of an extension. Mistake not to trade him at this TDL to recover assets and lay the 9m QO off. We can go for the trifecta and qualify him.

 

[StoicSensFan]

You guys are nuts. Played with a rookie centre, has the heart of a lion, had a significantly down year shooting percentage wise. I hope we keep him, even if it's for 9mil.