Great theory. Where are you getting the money to improve goaltending, adding a couple experienced and effective bottom 6 players.
Player Discussion Alex DeBrincat
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Well we have Talbot coming off the books, potentially Hamonic as well, along with Watson so right away we have some extra to work with.
Add in Greig and JBD (At this point I might even say Kleven will be on the roster) all at ELC pricing and there is room to be had.
We disagree on the 4th line construction so you probably won't ever see my side of it but I think we have some good players ready to contribute in bottom 6.
Fill in the missing contracts and try to get under the cap with a 20 man roster.
| Stutzle | $ 8,350,000 |
| Tkachuk | $ 8,205,714 |
| Norris | $ 7,950,000 |
| Giroux | $ 6,500,000 |
| Batherson | $ 4,975,000 |
| Joseph | $ 2,950,000 |
| Grieg | $ 863,333 |
| Kastelic | $ 835,000 |
| Kelly | $ 762,500 |
| Debrincat | |
| Pinto | |
| 12th Forward | |
| Chabot | $ 8,000,000 |
| Zub | $ 4,600,000 |
| Chychrun | $ 4,600,000 |
| Sanderson | $ 925,000 |
| Brannstrom | |
| JBD | |
| Forsberg | $ 2,750,000 |
| Goalie | |
| Retention | $ 1,562,500 |
| Dead Cap | $ 3,458,000 |
| Total | $ 67,287,047 |
| Cap | $ 83,500,000 |
| Space | $ 16,212,953 |
Here is one attempt. The Cap Space does not provide enough to upgrade the open positions.
Debrincat $8,000,000
12th Fwd / Formenton $2,000,000
Gauthier / Greig
Pinto $2,000,000
Brannstrom $1,200,000
Hamonic $1,500,000
Sogaard $925,000
SUM $15,625,000
The Salary Retention and Dead Cap certainly is creating a troublesome issue for next year.
ReginKarlssonLehner
Let's Win It All
I mean this respectfully, but not sure you seen enough of Gudas. He can transition really well, skate really well. Contribute both sides of the puck well. He's closer to Methot than we've ever had. Hamonic not even close to comparable. Molasses in relation.
Yes. This is definitely my hopes as well.
The 8 million to DeBrincat goes to: 1.5 mil Formenton, 5 million Saros/Demko, 2-3 million someone like Barb/Rodriguez/Haula.
Move Forsberg or Joseph and get another added d-man.
I think you would need to attach a 1st to move Joseph and the 11M owing, don’t think that’s worth 2M max in cap space.
I don't think Joseph is that bad. He has speed and is still young enough to bounce back. I'm fine if he's on the roster next year (especially if he can find his game if we reunite Brady Norris Joseph). Loads of teams could use him to meet the cap floor or have a warm body.
Him being traded mid-season would mean the Sens are not in the playoff race at that point. It would be a Cat-astrophic outcome, meaning that his salary/cap hit will have prevented us from making moves that make us competitive, and another year of our competitive window wasted away.
At least let's hope he contributes enough in that one year that we're not in a position to trade him at the deadline, but rather keep him as our own rental for the playoffs. Sure, we'll lose him for nothing at the end of the season, so let's hope he will have been worth all the assets we gave up to get him.
But I agree, a QO for $9M is indeed the worst possible outcome either way.
Sens of Anarchy
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- Jul 9, 2013
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Joseph is not that bad is the biggest compliment he gets from the most appreciative Joseph Fans
.
Not that good ; just compare his per 60 numbers to Gauthier who would sign up for a 4th line job in a heart beat, If $ are tight ..moving Joseph is a no brainer if you have a taker
9m QO you bafoon your way there
Micklebot
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- Apr 27, 2010
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Our 3rd and 4th lines improve by Norris pushing Pinto down, and graduating Greig to be available all year,
I mean, we aren't losing any great contracts from the bottom 6, we can likely replace Watson pretty easily or re-sign him. Pushing down Kelly and Gambrell to 13th fwd status out is a positive,
There's always UFA in September in that 1-1.5 mil range available if you absolutely need an experienced guy, that's how we got Motte.
Everyone seems to assume Forsberg and Joseph are unmoveable. Idk if that's true, but even if it is, options do exist to give you a bit of flexibility, you can get 1.15 mil each by burying the contracts in the AHL or save about 2 mil each by buying them out.
We're also operating under the assumption the cap will be 83.5, there's been talk they could agree to go higher.
All that to say it's a bit too early to say how things will play out,
The PA pretty much shot down a cap increase over 1M as they are a hard no on raising escrow.
Unless you are acquiring a bona fide #1 goalie you are adding to play with Forsberg.
Sens of Anarchy
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Owners would have zero reason to artificially increase the cap without escrow being in place to ensure a 50/50 split.
It would help GMs, owners want to maintain 50/50. If you give an inch the PA will start demanding concessions.
Micklebot
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- Apr 27, 2010
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It's a weird ask. If projected revenue supports say a 4 mil increase, but because pandemic loses hasn't been fully been paid back yet they are hesitant, increasing the cap by half of what HRR projections would normally result in seems to satisfy the intent of escrow anyways, a bit of a safety net for ownership.
Now, if the PA was asking to just go straight to the old rules for setting the cap, I could see increased escrow as a safeguard, but it seems to me there's middle ground options that should benefit both sides, if they can't figure it out when there appears to be better options for both sides, that doesn't bode well for the next round of CBA negotiations.
He's not a defensive liability, or a bad player. Gauthier is producing more right now in a 4th line role and would be great for that going forward. I'm down to move Joseph as a cap casualty, but its not like he's a hole in the line up
How about you say how much this mystery starting goalie makes and how much you want to pay these mystery, experienced 4th liners.
JBD, Pinto and Branny won't be breaking the bank.
Neither would Formenton if he comes back.
If DBC isn't in the mix next season then I hope we get a very good return but I would have hoped GMPD would have a plan to keep him.
After next season things ease up, you just need to stretch things 1 more season.
I want to cycle back on this post where you commented on Dorion without leverage
Stuetzle didn't have to sign a contract last summer. Dorion has zero leverage to make that happen. But it did happen. 8 years at 8.35.
Suppose it didn't happen. Tim plays out his ELC as is pretty common. Like Tkachuk did. Timmy posts 90 points. Some guy tweets that the only players to post 90 points in their 21 year old season since the 06 lockout we're Crosby, Ovechkin, Stamkos and McDavid.
So, where are we right now if Tim is without contract? Certainly we're looking at a deal that is well north of 10 AAV. Possibly 11 AAV.
Marner has a 10.9 AAV deal and he had a 69 point 21 year old season. He's a winger. Timmy is a centre.
Not much of a stretch to think that Timmy could sign a 10.85 AAV deal if he hadn't signed last summer. What's the difference there? 20 million.
So without any leverage Dorion signed Stuetzle to an 8 year deal that probably saved the franchise 20 million and provided 2.5 in cap space for 8 years to be used elsewhere.
You don't win every deal you make nor do you lose every deal you make. This particular deal may well be viewed as the best contract in the league as early as next year. Without leverage
I figure a vet goalie will run at least 3.5, 4.5M for 3 depth forwards including Formenton at 1.5, 1.4 for Brannstrom, 950K for JBD, 2M for Pinto. Add in a 7th D at 950K. That’s 13.3M.
The current deal is not running out. There really is no negotiation. The cap is set based on the numbers, zero wiggle room. The players can add to it, buts its a shell game, they will increase escrow by the amount they raise it. Given that the expectation is the covid overhang on the cap will finish this year, its hard to see the cap increasing in any meaningful way. Hopefully revenues are up and it will move a bit more than anticipated. Given the parity in the league it may be a great playoff run for fans.
Micklebot
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- Apr 27, 2010
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DeBrincat and Pinto likely eat about 10 mil, so that only leaves 6-6.5 for a goalie, 12th and 13th forwards, Brannstrom, JBD and a 7th D.
That's a hair over 1 mil each, and that doesn't even account for leave room for injuries, so we aren't getting a starting Goalie unless we clear space elsewhere, or the cap goes up more than expected.
I'm personally good with that, like you said, this is the right year, so I'd rather not do something that hurts long term but helps for next year, no sacrificing DeBrincat to make room for one year of a bridge goalie. If there's a deal that makes us better now and in the future, great, otherwise I feel comfortable with Forsberg and Sogaard, maybe bring in a low cost vet goalie so that Sogaard can play in the minors. Someone like Stalock for example
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