Player Discussion Alex DeBrincat

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If you don’t accept that good young players can have down seasons, then you end up giving up on them too early and lose out.

I think DBC is a great player and we shouldn’t be looking to trade away the good players we have.

Makes me shudder seeing trade proposals for quantity over quality all of a sudden. Or people wanting to get more draft picks.

Glad we have pros at the helm while we shoot the shit in here, because we lack typically lack a cohesive vision, patience, and are tremendously reactive and short sighted.

Scary to run a team like that.
I agree; however, we need experienced successful pros at the helm.
Pinto needs a shooter
Pinto needs to skate faster, play more physical and be more aggressive in his play. Given that 2022-23 was his first full season, he has done very well, but we need more from him and I hope he performs better in 2023-24 as the 3rd line C (with Formenton and Joseph).
 
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The Sens don't need to re-sign DeBrincat for 7.5-8M on a long-term deal, and that may be the most value we'd be able to get back.

I'd take the 3-4M in savings from downgrading to Fabbri and allocate it towards a better goaltender. Hell I'd even take the NYI 1st and trade it if it means getting a legit #1. We need one of those far more than we need to keep DeBrincat.
No to Fabbri, 3 major knee surgeries, no idea if latest lower body injury is knee again, or if the February lower body was knee.
Not sure why he hasn’t played a lot of games this year, must of been injured earlier in year as well, or healthy scratch.

Stevie Y is rough on negotiations, so maybe tough to go there, unless agreed upon in advance.
 
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let’s remember his career numbers were great, when he played with Kane, and not so much now in Ottawa without a player close to the calibre of Kane, so if he drops his AAV to a level suitable to the team, then signing him for 4 or 5 seasons might be palatable….. but he has the Trump card of taking the QO, and know that he’ll be traded before the Deadline and cash in as an UFA…..
Yorkie brought up some good points on the pod today that have been voiced here for a while. It will be impossible or very hard to get 40 goals unless you playing with the top players which DBC doesn't. He also mentioned how you can't say you want to have two balanced PP units. It does not work. He also mentioned that it makes sense that playing with Kane worked because DBC was the go to guy which mean every time they needed a goal DBC and Kane were going on the ice. Ottawa has more depth which means that other guys also have that chance. Brady will always play with the best center on LW. Also said it takes a good coach to push the right buttons and to fit everyone in together. They started the conversation with how Timmy will play once Norris is back and how that will fit in

I think DBC did hint at this at the start of the season when he said there is a lot of talent here and he wants to see how it fits. Being stuck with Pinto does not help either. It really comes down to does he want to stay here and play for 8mill per or does he want to be the top dog elsewhere where he is the top option and plays with the best players.

I also don't trust that DJ will be able to figure out how to play everyone when Norris comes back as he has not shown to push the right buttons.
 
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Yorkie brought up some good points on the pod today that have been voiced here for a while. It will be impossible or very hard to get 40 goals unless you playing with the top players which DBC doesn't. He also mentioned how you can't say you want to have two balanced PP units. It does not work. He also mentioned that it makes sense that playing with Kane worked because DBC was the go to guy which mean every time they needed a goal DBC and Kane were going on the ice. Ottawa has more depth which means that other guys also have that chance. Brady will always play with the best center on LW. Also said it takes a good coach to push the right buttons and to fit everyone in together. They started the conversation with how Timmy will play once Norris is back and how that will fit in

I think DBC did hint at this at the start of the season when he said there is a lot of talent here and he wants to see how it fits. Being stuck with Pinto does not help either. It really comes down to does he want to stay here and play for 8mill per or does he want to be the top dog elsewhere where he is the top option and plays with the best players.

I also don't trust that DJ will be able to figure out how to play everyone when Norris comes back as he has not shown to push the right buttons.
Yorkie also said that the guys are where they should be as a team and that they are a young team that needs this valuable experience they are getting right now to continue to get better.

You’re right, he does make good points.
 
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I think the 2nd line has done okay without a legit center. I don't think people understand how bad that 2C spot has been.

At this point a rookie in Greig who doesn't even look ready is a breathe of fresh air on that line
I think Greig needs more development and maturation time in the AHL. Let him become a man with man strength and improve his skillset against pros before bringing him up to Ottawa. It might take half an AHL season or 1 1/2 AHL seasons, but now is too soon.
 
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Yorkie also said that the guys are where they should be as a team and that they are a young team that needs this valuable experience they are getting right now to continue to get better.

You’re right, he does make good points.
absolutely inexperience plays a large part in poor showings. Thats why an experienced coach would probably help this team out to take the next step
 
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Yorkie brought up some good points on the pod today that have been voiced here for a while. It will be impossible or very hard to get 40 goals unless you playing with the top players which DBC doesn't. He also mentioned how you can't say you want to have two balanced PP units. It does not work. He also mentioned that it makes sense that playing with Kane worked because DBC was the go to guy which mean every time they needed a goal DBC and Kane were going on the ice. Ottawa has more depth which means that other guys also have that chance. Brady will always play with the best center on LW. Also said it takes a good coach to push the right buttons and to fit everyone in together. They started the conversation with how Timmy will play once Norris is back and how that will fit in

I think DBC did hint at this at the start of the season when he said there is a lot of talent here and he wants to see how it fits. Being stuck with Pinto does not help either. It really comes down to does he want to stay here and play for 8mill per or does he want to be the top dog elsewhere where he is the top option and plays with the best players.

I also don't trust that DJ will be able to figure out how to play everyone when Norris comes back as he has not shown to push the right buttons.
Hmmmmm, hasn‘t pushed the right buttons for whom? Top PP and PK, career seasons from our star players forwards not named DBC, career year from Norris last time he played for DJ….

Yeah I can see the reason for distrust….
 
I think Greig needs more development and maturation time in the AHL. Let him become a man with man strength and improve his skillset against pros before bringing him up to Ottawa. It might take half an AHL season or 1 1/2 AHL seasons, but now is too soon.
agreed

I don't see him as ready yet and we can give him the time he needs
 
absolutely inexperience plays a large part in poor showings. Thats why an experienced coach would probably help this team out to take the next step
Lol, you missed the point.

Experinece is something that needs to be lived through by the players, it can’t be given to you from the coach. That was the whole point York and Ryan were both making.

You need to experience loss and hardship to learn from it.
 
Hmmmmm, hasn‘t pushed the right buttons for whom? Top PP and PK, career seasons from our star players forwards not named DBC, career year from Norris last time he played for DJ….

Yeah I can see the reason for distrust….
They were talking about how things would fit with Norris and Stuztle both here. Last year Norris was the top dog and got lots of touches. This year Stuztle is the top centre. That will be a coaching decision to get everyone in and get everyone touches.

Has DJ shown me that he knows how to balance the lineup? I dunno DBC Pinto and Bath have struggled a lot on the 2nd line. Chabot has really struggled on the back end while playing lots of mins.

Might be time for a different look on the coaching team

Lol, you missed the point.

Experinece is something that needs to be lived through by the players, it can’t be given to you from the coach. That was the whole point York and Ryan were both making.

You need to experience loss and hardship to learn from it.
I dont think anyone is denying this ?

The issues can both be inexperience by the players and also inexperience by the coaching staff.

The players will get experience as they play more but an experienced coach can help them get to the next level no doubt. It is absolutely worth a shot
 
I will wait to see him under a good coach who actually knows what he is doing and has proven he can win in this league.
 
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Ya you got to figure, no long term deals are getting done until new owner, they may be allowed to approve a signing , if officially team has to changed hands yet.
I think deals can be made if the Executive approve them. However, I also think the Executive are being cautious about major changes due to the pending sale of the team as they probably want to keep their jobs. So Dorion is probably operating on a short leash and any major changes are subject to Executive review and approval.

I also think that Debrincat could be signed to a long term deal if the AAV was about $8M or less as that would be in line with the AAV for other top players on the team.
 
I think deals can be made if the Executive approve them. However, I also think the Executive are being cautious about major changes due to the pending sale of the team as they probably want to keep their jobs. So Dorion is probably operating on a short leash and any major changes are subject to Executive review and approval.

I also think that Debrincat could be signed to a long term deal if the AAV was about $8M or less as that would be in line with the AAV for other top players on the team.
with UFA style deals DBC has a lot more pull in terms of signing bonues and structure of deals. I suspect signing bonues is not something Dorion could do let alone approve another long term deal. Chychrun was more money in and money out with Zaitsev

Also its in DBC best interest to wait this process out and see who the new owner is and potentially new coach and GM. If I was him I would want to know what the direction of the team is before signing longterm
 
I mean DeBrincat isn't going to get 9 million on the open market.
I don't think Meier gets 10 million and he's having a career year. He probably gets around 9 million.

I can see DeBrincat signing an 8 ish million by 8 years and I am very comfortable giving him that
 
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If he forces our hand and insists on his QO of $9M for 2023-24, then we should trade him asap, not wait until the TDL. If Debrincat is refusing to sign a longer term deal now at about $8M AAV, then trade him at the first opportunity, including now.

Then you are trading him at the point he has the lowest value. Likely looking at a second or so coming back.

50% retained at TDL has a lot more value.
 
Given what Dorion gave up to get DeBrincat in the first place tells me he isn't going to trade him & will sign him unless the ask is completely unreasonable & anything above $8 mil IMO is unreasonable based on his yr, although he is a former 40 goal player. He has had so many chances this season he should have 60 goals, but has been unable to finish on so many opportunities.
 
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This isn't a very fun position to be in. The guys got the track-record of someone who deserves to get absolutely paid, but when watching him with the Sens, he clearly doesn't deserve more then a handful of our other forwards.

Quite frankly, he very well could be our 6th best forward option next season if Batherson is fully healed, Giroux doesn't regress much, Norris is healthy, and Brady + Tim continue to do their thing.

It's just hard to fathom giving this guy a yearly salary that starts with an 8. He hasn't shown me that he can push the needle for that kind of payday despite was his past results may or may not say.

The Sens have a pretty tight core and have had a lot of success with signings lately. Do they dare give him a 1-year "prove it" contract before locking him up long-term? Do they trade him for far less then what we got? Do they just lock-him up for probably too much this off-season? I truly don't know.
 
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Given what Dorion gave up to get DeBrincat in the first place tells me he isn't going to trade him & will sign him unless the ask is completely unreasonable & anything above $8 mil IMO is unreasonable based on his yr, although he is a former 40 goal player. He has had so many chances this season he should have 60 goals, but has been unable to finish on so many opportunities.
New owners with Hockey Ops oversight to at least assist in this decision please
 
I am far more cautious when it comes this sentiment. I think change has just as good a likelihood of being disappointing.

Lots of Shite GMs out there, very few who have been successful. None have been successful without missteps along the way, and the current successful guys are employed.

If you operate from a perspective of hating the current management group, then any change must look good. Personally I love the team being built, love the squad on the ice, and that’s the deciding factor when it comes to evaluating the architect. I am concerned that a new outsider has just as much change of screwing up what has been clearly moving on the right direction as they are of making it better.

I also don’t see a team that has stagnated or taken steps backwards that needs a new direction from the top. When I perceive the team looking this way I will agree that change may be needed. For now it just looks like EM era hate still brewing underneath powering a drive for change when it’s not really needed.


Do like I do and get blocked by everyone so it’s just the two of us in here arguing back and forth. ;)
I don’t know if people block me or not. Is formentonforthefuture still around ? He use to always argue with me now I don’t see him anymore
 
Still feel like it's a complete no brainer for both sides to deal DeBrincat to Detroit for the NYI 1st and Fabbri/Kubalik. They'll sign him to a Fiala-type contract (7.5-8M for 7YRs).

Would be surprised if he went anywhere else to be honest.

You have to think with near certainty that Detroit kicked the tires on Debrincat when he was available last year, and were not willing to offer more than the Sens (especially as they picked 8th, Ottawa 7th). With what is likely noticable diminished value this year, what makes Detroit that much more interested this year? They are in the same boat as Ottawa, up and coming team with a chance to get Debrincat without giving up a prospect and turned it down.

The hard truth is Debrincat went to the highest bidder last year. Teams were leery of him not producing as well with out Kane, and that is not something to be leery of now, they are sure. Secondly, they were leery of the contract, but at least you had him for 1 year at a 6.5M cap hit and still had RFA rights. Now it is likely to be a 9M cap hit with no rights after this year.

I'm not sure what way this is going, but its very hard to see even getting close to our original outlay back with him having diminished value.
 

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