Player Discussion Alex DeBrincat

[HSF]

Out of our top 6 forwards and top 4 D, Debrincat and Chabot stand out as softer players. I wouldn’t be opposed to moving them and replacing with grittier cheaper players. Obviously finding another top 4 RD is tough, but we just need steady not flashy. Replacing Debrincat could be as easy as signing Formenton.

good luck finding replacement players

Formenton is def not replacing DBC. Dude hasn't even played in the nhl for over a year when he returns.

People keep throwing out these magic players that are going to step in and save the day. Pinto was supposed to be our 2C last year according to some. Greig could step into an nhl centre role on the 2nd line .

Lets not even get started on the development that Norris has missed

 

[GCK]

good luck finding replacement players

Formenton is def not replacing DBC. Dude hasn't even played in the nhl for over a year when he returns.

People keep throwing out these magic players that are going to step in and save the day. Pinto was supposed to be our 2C last year according to some. Greig could step into an nhl centre role on the 2nd line .

Lets not even get started on the development that Norris has missed

Formenton can easily replace Debrincat. He won’t generate the overall numbers but he could be close at even strength. Norris replaces Debrincat’s PP production. All that free cap space gets used for bottom 6 depth and goaltending.

As for Chabot, I definitely keep him until another RD is acquired.

 

[HSF]

Formenton can easily replace Debrincat. He won’t generate the overall numbers but he could be close at even strength. Norris replaces Debrincat’s PP production. All that free cap space gets used for bottom 6 depth and goaltending.

As for Chabot, I definitely keep him until another RD is acquired.

after missing a year of development? Formenton isn't coming here and saving the day lmao

If the Senators are serious about depth then they need to keep him on the 3rd line and see how it goes. Moving formenton up means we have another Motte situation

Why are people here allergic to depth? If you have the money and cap space then spend it.

Norris 'replacing' DBC production does not help us. We don't have enough production as is. We need Norris + DBC + Formenton

Its like people saying now we should look into trading Chabot cause we have Chychrun....no the whole reason was to give us depth. Formenton and Norris are largly also unknown with both missing significant time at a young age.

Perhaps some of you aren't used to having quality players throughout the lineup but thats what cup teams have until they can't afford them. What a waste it would be to not use Sanderson and Pinto being on cheaper deals to our advantage

 

[bert]

Some people here thinks are window is the next 8 years
It’s not
Playoffs with and without Giroux would 2 very very different PO runs for these kids

But we are not there yet

It absolutely is. Its the length of Stutzle's deal. He's the best player on the team, as long as he is here its their window. He is probably the 2nd most talented player the organization has ever had. That along with the fact that Sanderson is 20, Grieg is 20, Pinto is 22, Tkachuk 23, Norris 23, Chychrun 24, Chabot 26, Batherson 25. Giroux is an amazing player but he is not the core age of this team. There is a really strange narrative that players arent going to improve going around here. While we have literally seen it with almost every young player currently on the roster. Not only that but through the test of time the majority of players dont hit their actual primes until their mid to late 20's. I get it people want it now but its not a realistic way to look at it and never has been. When they went scorched earth rebuild this was always the time line. Dorion jumped the gun this summer when he shouldnt have. You make those deals when the team is already pushing not a lottery team.

I predict that The Cat is paid $9 mil for next year. It's not the end of the world to overpay a guy $2 million for 1 year.

Then traded at the deadline for a 1st and 3rd round pick, as I expect his production to be higher next season being a pre-UFA year and all.

There is no way they are trading him unless its a disaster of a season. They need to do it now. They should have done it at the TDL if there was no extension in place.

 

[bert]

after missing a year of development? Formenton isn't coming here and saving the day lmao

If the Senators are serious about depth then they need to keep him on the 3rd line and see how it goes. Moving formenton up means we have another Motte situation

Why are people here allergic to depth? If you have the money and cap space then spend it.

Norris 'replacing' DBC production does not help us. We don't have enough production as is. We need Norris + DBC + Formenton

Its like people saying now we should look into trading Chabot cause we have Chychrun....no the whole reason was to give us depth. Formenton and Norris are largly also unknown with both missing significant time at a young age.

Perhaps some of you aren't used to having quality players throughout the lineup but thats what cup teams have until they can't afford them. What a waste it would be to not use Sanderson and Pinto being on cheaper deals to our advantage

He had 18 goals as basically a rookie. Motte has never sniffed 18 goals. With next to no pp time.

Formenton is a better fit for this team in every way over Debrincat. Stylistically, what they are missing, salary, speed.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Out of our top 6 forwards and top 4 D, Debrincat and Chabot stand out as softer players. I wouldn’t be opposed to moving them and replacing with grittier cheaper players. Obviously finding another top 4 RD is tough, but we just need steady not flashy. Replacing Debrincat could be as easy as signing Formenton.

What makes DBC soft,
hit wise , he’s behind 3 fourth liners and Brady. So he’s not afraid to give or take a hit.

 

[HSF]

He had 18 goals as basically a rookie. Motte has never sniffed 18 goals. With next to no pp time.

Formenton is a better fit for this team in every way over Debrincat. Stylistically, what they are missing, salary, speed.

thats exactly my point

you don't want Motte on your 3rd line. you want Formenton on your 3rd line

THere is no reason for it to be Formenton vs DBC

The Sens need both. You move Formenton to the 2nd line then we end up with a Motte type player on the 3rd line.


What you want is Pinto and Formenton to both be on the 3rd line. Its a good thing

Not everything needs to be this or that. It does not have to be Chychrun vs Chabot. We can keep both for now and actually try to win the cup.

 

[Hale The Villain]

I'll just re-iterate that spending 8M on a long-term deal for DeBrincat to play on the 2nd line and on our #2 PP once Norris is healthy isn't a great use of our limited cap space.

Replace him with a decent 2nd liner that costs half as much and invest the rest of the savings into a good goalie.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

after missing a year of development? Formenton isn't coming here and saving the day lmao

If the Senators are serious about depth then they need to keep him on the 3rd line and see how it goes. Moving formenton up means we have another Motte situation

Why are people here allergic to depth? If you have the money and cap space then spend it.

Norris 'replacing' DBC production does not help us. We don't have enough production as is. We need Norris + DBC + Formenton

Its like people saying now we should look into trading Chabot cause we have Chychrun....no the whole reason was to give us depth. Formenton and Norris are largly also unknown with both missing significant time at a young age.

Perhaps some of you aren't used to having quality players throughout the lineup but thats what cup teams have until they can't afford them. What a waste it would be to not use Sanderson and Pinto being on cheaper deals to our advantage

With or without Formenton the problem remains .
We can use DCat $ to improve the depth.
A 2LW and a 3W .. Not an insurmountable problem. We should upgrade Joseph on the 3rd line as well.
Unfortunate we had 2 good 3rd line players we moved
This is a Dorion issue... but Debrincat hasn't made a great case to stay at the $ he'll command.

 

[HSF]

With or without Formenton the problem remains .
We can use DCat $ to improve the depth.
A 2LW and a 3W .. Not an insurmountable problem. We should upgrade Joseph on the 3rd line as well.
Unfortunate we had 2 good 3rd line players we moved
This is a Dorion issue... but Debrincat hasn't made a great case to stay at the $ he'll command.

Agreed with Joseph. He might be a problem on that line with that kind of money.

Cap might be going up higher though.



Sens are well aligned with a cap explosion. we might be able to keep a very deep and strong team together for a couple of years

 

[GCK]

What makes DBC soft,
hit wise , he’s behind 3 fourth liners and Brady. So he’s not afraid to give or take a hit.

Sorry soft was the wrong word. He is challenged in board battles and fighting through hooks, holds, etc. I like Debrincat but he and Batherson are 5/6 in our top 6 depth chart and should not make more than 5-6M which is ridiculously low and unreasonable for a guy like Debrincat, he’s a luxury on a team that has other needs.

 

[Hale The Villain]

It's obvious at this point that we should have just re-signed Paul and Brown instead of trading for DeBrincat and Joseph.

Would have still gotten to pick 7th OVR and would have had another 3M or so in cap space we could have used to improve the D.

Dorion was too clever by half making those moves.

 

[OD99]

after missing a year of development? Formenton isn't coming here and saving the day lmao

He is playing pro hockey and was at the Spengler Cup, he hasn't missed a year of development.

Nobody is suggesting he is coming to save the day but certainly you can see that we have missed what he brings? I am not advocating for him to replace DBC as they offer very different talents but if I was pressed as to current value, I am taking Formenton at $3M or whatever over DBC at $8M+ and will sort out getting a different 2LW and adding more depth.

Its like people saying now we should look into trading Chabot cause we have Chychrun....no the whole reason was to give us depth. Formenton and Norris are largly also unknown with both missing significant time at a young age.

I agree we need depth and thinking of replacing Chabot/DBC with those 2 won't get us where we need to be but DBC isn't the only option for LW in the league and if he won't sign for a reasonable price, we have to move him.

Where is the last part coming from? Norris is one of the top snipers in the league, there is no debate or uncertainty about that and Formenton had a great AHL season and then found his groove at the NHL level being a dominant PKer while ramping up his offence. Neither of those guys are in any way, "unknown".

 

[HSF]

Sorry soft was the wrong word. He is challenged in board battles and fighting through hooks, holds, etc. I like Debrincat but he and Batherson are 5/6 in our top 6 depth chart and should not make more than 5-6M which is ridiculously low and unreasonable for a guy like Debrincat, he’s a luxury on a team that has other needs.

They have done okay without playing with a capable center all season. Pinto just aint it.

Giroux won't be here long term so there is space. It doesn't make sense to move him only to spend 7-8mill on finding another 2nd line wingers. You aren't getting anyone for 5-6 mill anymore. Those are strictly going to be for RFA contracts not for high end goal scorers in free agency.

He is playing pro hockey and was at the Spengler Cup, he hasn't missed a year of development.

Nobody is suggesting he is coming to save the day but certainly you can see that we have missed what he brings? I am not advocating for him to replace DBC as they offer very different talents but if I was pressed as to current value, I am taking Formenton at $3M or whatever over DBC at $8M+ and will sort out getting a different 2LW and adding more depth.

I agree we need depth and thinking of replacing Chabot/DBC with those 2 won't get us where we need to be but DBC isn't the only option for LW in the league and if he won't sign for a reasonable price, we have to move him.

Where is the last part coming from? Norris is one of the top snipers in the league, there is no debate or uncertainty about that and Formenton had a great AHL season and then found his groove at the NHL level being a dominant PKer while ramping up his offence. Neither of those guys are in any way, "unknown".

Hes played 22 games in the swiss league at age 23. I would say that is a significant developmental year that is being missed in the NHL. To think he will come in a play a top 6 role which he has never done consistently in the NHL is just an odd solution to come up with imo

 

[Alex1234]

It absolutely is. Its the length of Stutzle's deal. He's the best player on the team, as long as he is here its their window. He is probably the 2nd most talented player the organization has ever had. That along with the fact that Sanderson is 20, Grieg is 20, Pinto is 22, Tkachuk 23, Norris 23, Chychrun 24, Chabot 26, Batherson 25. Giroux is an amazing player but he is not the core age of this team. There is a really strange narrative that players arent going to improve going around here. While we have literally seen it with almost every young player currently on the roster. Not only that but through the test of time the majority of players dont hit their actual primes until their mid to late 20's. I get it people want it now but its not a realistic way to look at it and never has been. When they went scorched earth rebuild this was always the time line. Dorion jumped the gun this summer when he shouldnt have. You make those deals when the team is already pushing not a lottery team.


There is no way they are trading him unless its a disaster of a season. They need to do it now. They should have done it at the TDL if there was no extension in place.

When do you see us ready to really contend for a Cup? 3 years? 4?

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

When do you see us ready to really contend for a Cup? 3 years? 4?

I think that is hard to say with any meaning. A lot of variables.
Lets make the playoffs for a couple of years in a row and see how things are shaping up.
Contend for a cup meaning be one of the top 4-5 teams in the league I presume.

We have to be rid of Dorion and his emo over optimistic modus operandi.

 

[OD99]

They have done okay without playing with a capable center all season. Pinto just aint it.

Giroux won't be here long term so there is space. It doesn't make sense to move him only to spend 7-8mill on finding another 2nd line wingers. You aren't getting anyone for 5-6 mill anymore. Those are strictly going to be for RFA contracts not for high end goal scorers in free agency.


Hes played 22 games in the swiss league at age 23. I would say that is a significant developmental year that is being missed in the NHL. To think he will come in a play a top 6 role which he has never done consistently in the NHL is just an odd solution to come up with imo

Well his isn't a fresh faced rookie and they do practice over there as well.

As I said, I am not advocating for him to replace DBC and don't really see others suggesting it either? 1 poster perhaps? He did fill in for a bit last season and put up points so it isn't out of the question but IMO our best bet at winning is him as 3LW and Pinto as 3C with an upgrade at 3RW (and across the board upgrades on 4th line if possible).

 

[GCK]

They have done okay without playing with a capable center all season. Pinto just aint it.

Giroux won't be here long term so there is space. It doesn't make sense to move him only to spend 7-8mill on finding another 2nd line wingers. You aren't getting anyone for 5-6 mill anymore. Those are strictly going to be for RFA contracts not for high end goal scorers in free agency.


Hes played 22 games in the swiss league at age 23. I would say that is a significant developmental year that is being missed in the NHL. To think he will come in a play a top 6 role which he has never done consistently in the NHL is just an odd solution to come up with imo

We need roster balance and depth more than a 2nd line winger at close to 8M. We have different views on roster construction which is good for debate. I personally like the thought of a bottom 6 containing speed, size, defensive awareness and some scoring.

The following needs a little more experience IMO

Pinto
Kastelic
Greig
Joseph
Gauthier
Vet FA

 

[bert]

When do you see us ready to really contend for a Cup? 3 years? 4?

2 years is when Pinto, Grieg, Kastelic, Brannstrom, Sanderson and Stutzle are in their prime. Tkachuk, Chabot, Norris, Batherson, Joseph, Chychrun and Zub will still be in their primes too. If Formenton comes back he will be in his prime. 2025-2030 is when this age group is in its cup years. I am not sure if you were a fan of this team in the 90's and 2000's but they were a contender for almost a decade and made the playoffs for 11 straight seasons. But they didnt burn picks like this group, they had a consistent pipeline and drafted really well.

 

[bert]

thats exactly my point

you don't want Motte on your 3rd line. you want Formenton on your 3rd line

THere is no reason for it to be Formenton vs DBC

The Sens need both. You move Formenton to the 2nd line then we end up with a Motte type player on the 3rd line.


What you want is Pinto and Formenton to both be on the 3rd line. Its a good thing

Not everything needs to be this or that. It does not have to be Chychrun vs Chabot. We can keep both for now and actually try to win the cup.

I dont mind Formenton in the top 6. Not every player has to be a skill guy his speed pulls D men out of position, his puck retrieval is great for skill guys. Thats the problem with Debrincat Pinto Batherson none of them are a puck hound. Look at Hyman, not the most skilled but is a great complimentary player. His skills have developed through reps.

Lets say they cant get Formenton. Id be targeting a player like Crouse to replace Debrincat, this is under the assumption Norris is back of course.

A third line of

Grieg Pinto Joseph is fine by me.

 

[Masked]

2 years is when Pinto, Grieg, Kastelic, Brannstrom, Sanderson and Stutzle are in their prime. Tkachuk, Chabot, Norris, Batherson, Joseph, Chychrun and Zub will still be in their primes too. If Formenton comes back he will be in his prime. 2025-2030 is when this age group is in its cup years. I am not sure if you were a fan of this team in the 90's and 2000's but they were a contender for almost a decade and made the playoffs for 11 straight seasons. But they didnt burn picks like this group, they had a consistent pipeline and drafted really well.

We're just going to forget the Muckler years?

Assen na yo!

 

[HSF]

I dont mind Formenton in the top 6. Not every player has to be a skill guy his speed pulls D men out of position, his puck retrieval is great for skill guys. Thats the problem with Debrincat Pinto Batherson none of them are a puck hound. Look at Hyman, not the most skilled but is a great complimentary player. His skills have developed through reps.

Lets say they cant get Formenton. Id be targeting a player like Crouse to replace Debrincat, this is under the assumption Norris is back of course.

A third line of

Grieg Pinto Joseph is fine by me.

Doubt Crouse is moved as he is probably their next captain according to rumours.

Also how does adding a 30-40 point injury prone player like Crouse help us more than DBC? Formenton is a good puck hound you can move him up the lineup an then make a more lethal line with Pinto +DBC

If you want more puck possession 5v5 that has more to do with your centres and also coaching. That second line has really struggled with Pinto as their center.

Crouse - Pinto - Bath struggled more than DBC on that line

 

[Big Muddy]

Why are people here allergic to depth? If you have the money and cap space then spend it.

There isn't a lot of cap space next year "IF" the cap is $83.5 m.

 

[HSF]

There isn't a lot of cap space next year "IF" the cap is $83.5 m.

Seems like the league is interested in increasing it further. Lets see where negotiations go with the PA.

I think something happens on that front with the NHL being so open about it

 

[Big Muddy]

Seems like the league is interested in increasing it further. Lets see where negotiations go with the PA.

I think something happens on that front with the NHL being so open about it

Yes, it will depend on what unfolds (or if it unfolds), and the details. For example, if they raise the cap next year $2m versus the $1 m, it's not going to make such a big difference. Obviously a greater increase would open things up, but it will open up for many teams versus just us.