Alex Burmistrov (Part II)

[Analyst365]

Burmi's been good so far, playing the role that Noel told him he should be playing a few years ago.

 

[LowEnd88]

That's interesting -- we need those players for sure. I saw that a lot of folks liked Burmi's game yesterday, but I still wasn't overly impressed. Perhaps I'm looking for the wrong things. I'm still of the opinion that a Petan-Burmi switch would be great, but maybe I'm just a lot higher on Petan than I should be.

Speaking of guys hanging back to support the D, who else has been good doing that? Quite often I see Ehlers back there or at least trailing the play. Who else - Petan?

I've been noticing wheeler helping out a lot with the D carrying the puck deep.

 

[allan5oh]

this is basic peewee age stuff. but some players just dont pick up on it. its hockey iq stuff some players have it others dont no matter how many times you point it out to them.

So what you're saying is Claude Noel isn't a peewee coach? Because it barely ever happened in year 1. I remember so many people complaining about Buff pinching all the time, yet we would have our supposed best defensive forwards on the ice and Enstrom would be hung out to dry with a 2 on 1 or a 3 on 1.

and im including rotations in all three zones in this btw since its easier to talk about. covering the d is just one of the many rotations teams need to pull off. easiest to see is d zone. watch a guy like peluso skate straight "rw" spot and never move. then watch burmi fill in to proper f1, f2, f3 or even d1, d2 spot and the guys know to rotate properly (mostly). this type of spotting rotations is an extension of burmi picking up on the missing d on a pinch in o-zone.

Wingers aren't asked to do much while defending in our zone. One thing I've noticed about them is they almost never come lower than the tops of the circles. They let the D and C do the work, be available for the breakout, and cover the points.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

That's interesting -- we need those players for sure. I saw that a lot of folks liked Burmi's game yesterday, but I still wasn't overly impressed. Perhaps I'm looking for the wrong things. I'm still of the opinion that a Petan-Burmi switch would be great, but maybe I'm just a lot higher on Petan than I should be.

Speaking of guys hanging back to support the D, who else has been good doing that? Quite often I see Ehlers back there or at least trailing the play. Who else - Petan?

Burmi is playing a D first game. If you are looking for offense you are going to be disappointed.

I suspect that Petan would give a bit of a boost to the offense from that line but not likely a lot. They would still likely be given a defensive role. Petan might also provide similar D to Burmi but likely not quite as good. Maybe a lot less but who knows until it is tried? Petan has said that he worked on his defensive game last year. Maybe with Petan on that line Maurice changes the role somewhat.

I'm happy with the jobs they have both been doing but swapping them might be productive.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

So what you're saying is Claude Noel isn't a peewee coach? Because it barely ever happened in year 1. I remember so many people complaining about Buff pinching all the time, yet we would have our supposed best defensive forwards on the ice and Enstrom would be hung out to dry with a 2 on 1 or a 3 on 1.




Wingers aren't asked to do much while defending in our zone. One thing I've noticed about them is they almost never come lower than the tops of the circles. They let the D and C do the work, be available for the breakout, and cover the points.

depends were and when the pinchs happen.

this not jets specific stuff. thats basic d zone coverage. however watch closely and youll see smart players playing f1 f2 f3 instead of c rw lw spots. of course theyll try to stay in "right positions" but smart players adjust to situations. some players cant do it and it makes for breakdowns when first player is back is a rw that cant adjust for example. if i had a board i could explain this so much better haha.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Burmi's been good so far, playing the role that Noel told him he should be playing a few years ago.

I'm not sure that is accurate. The stuff he is doing well now he was doing well then. He still carries the puck all over the ice for too long without either passing or shooting. I believe that was Noel's complaint. That said I think he has improved already this season on that aspect. The good D, the good positioning and generally good play without the puck he was doing 3 years ago. That was not the issue.

 

[sipowicz]

I'm not sure that is accurate. The stuff he is doing well now he was doing well then. He still carries the puck all over the ice for too long without either passing or shooting. I believe that was Noel's complaint. That said I think he has improved already this season on that aspect. The good D, the good positioning and generally good play without the puck he was doing 3 years ago. That was not the issue.

[mod] beside the fact that he can't score (aside from his fluke empty netter he banked off the glass), his shot is about as weak as they come in the NHL, I think most kids in junior actually have a better shot, all his play occurs within 3 feet of the boards almost like he's afraid to move towards the centre of the ice. He's good defensively but not great with the puck in his own end of the rink and doesn't always make the best decisions trying to get it out. Hey if you want a strictly defensive 3rd line left winger that can't score, then he's your guy!

 

[truck]

[mod] beside the fact that he can't score (aside from his fluke empty netter he banked off the glass), his shot is about as weak as they come in the NHL, I think most kids in junior actually have a better shot, all his play occurs within 3 feet of the boards almost like he's afraid to move towards the centre of the ice. He's good defensively but not great with the puck in his own end of the rink and doesn't always make the best decisions trying to get it out. Hey if you want a strictly defensive 3rd line left winger that can't score, then he's your guy!

Why would you single out his lack of offense when his linemate Lowry is doing less?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

[mod] beside the fact that he can't score (aside from his fluke empty netter he banked off the glass), his shot is about as weak as they come in the NHL, I think most kids in junior actually have a better shot, all his play occurs within 3 feet of the boards almost like he's afraid to move towards the centre of the ice. He's good defensively but not great with the puck in his own end of the rink and doesn't always make the best decisions trying to get it out. Hey if you want a strictly defensive 3rd line left winger that can't score, then he's your guy!

I think you might be overstating it just a bit Sip. I saw him in the slot at least twice yesterday and he will get the odd goal.

 

[sipowicz]

Why would you single out his lack of offense when his linemate Lowry is doing less?

Lowry's lack off offence is troubling, a bad season and the guy will find himself on another team or on the 4th line.

 

[Jet]

some guys are better at understanding the game and reading that. watch a guy like peluso who will never pick on things compared to burmi or little or wheeler who rotate amazingly.

Good on you getting in your Peluso shot in a Burmistrov thread.

Back to Burmi, it surprises me that people STILL believe in order to be an important player on a team or to be playing well you need to be scoring points.

Yes, I think all of us here were hoping that Alex would finally realize his offensive potential but some of the best pieces of winning teams do not score. We need to let go of the hope that Alex is going to be a 20-50 guy and just appreciate the good things he does night in and night out. He's not as good as Frolik in the role (and part of that is production) but he has made that loss a LOT easier to take.

I wonder how Fro is liking his new team

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Good on you getting in your Peluso shot in a Burmistrov thread.

Back to Burmi, it surprises me that people STILL believe in order to be an important player on a team or to be playing well you need to be scoring points.

Yes, I think all of us here were hoping that Alex would finally realize his offensive potential but some of the best pieces of winning teams do not score. We need to let go of the hope that Alex is going to be a 20-50 guy and just appreciate the good things he does night in and night out. He's not as good as Frolik in the role (and part of that is production) but he has made that loss a LOT easier to take.

I wonder how Fro is liking his new team

Ahh. Winning is overrated.

 

[JetsFan815]

I think Burmi has been just fine this season.

 

[Gnova]

I think the Burminater has been fine so far this season.
He has helped fill a hole on the 3rd line and made it a respectable 3rd line that can be on the ice against any matchup.
Maurice's systems are more suited for his skillset too.

 

[DeepFrickinValue]

Guy has been a stud defensively. Getting better each game. Would like to see him with ehlers when Perrault gets injured

 

[KingBogo]

Guy has been a stud defensively. Getting better each game. Would like to see him with ehlers when Perrault gets injured

Don't see him as a good fit for either Ehlers or Scheifele. Holds onto the puck too long without making a play. You'd have linemates like Scheif and Ehlers either offside or standing still. Lack of finish and touch around the net would also be a concern.

 

[scelaton]

Don't see him as a good fit for either Ehlers or Scheifele. Holds onto the puck too long without making a play. You'd have linemates like Scheif and Ehlers either offside or standing still. Lack of finish and touch around the net would also be a concern.

Your comment made me think of something off the wall.
I had always touted Burmi as a Frolik replacement, but maybe he is a Kane replacement!
Sure, he won't score as many goals, but he is a high possession player who functions as well on the third line as on the first, because he can't seem to optimally utilize his teammates. Kane has a shot and Burmi does not, and Burmi has moves that Kane does not...so they are more like mirror images than twins.
Leaving personality stuff aside, people have tended to criticize both because they can't seem to achieve their potential, while forgetting that they are very good players nonetheless.

 

[Howard Chuck]

Your comment made me think of something off the wall.
I had always touted Burmi as a Frolik replacement, but maybe he is a Kane replacement!
Sure, he won't score as many goals, but he is a high possession player who functions as well on the third line as on the first, because he can't seem to optimally utilize his teammates. Kane has a shot and Burmi does not, and Burmi has moves that Kane does not...so they are more like mirror images than twins.
Leaving personality stuff aside, people have tended to criticize both because they can't seem to achieve their potential, while forgetting that they are very good players nonetheless.

Nice reasonable post!

 

[garret9]

So Whileee may be on to something...

Using linear regression of multiple different usage factors, I estimate that Burmistrov's expected CA/60 to be higher than his actual.
In other words, his line is actually beating minutes in terms of reducing shot attempts against.

They are drowning due to lack of shot attempts for.


I also checked Lowry, and he has the same thing. Stafford is a bit worse than expected in both for and against, but his differential is better.

 

[Whileee]

So Whileee may be on to something...

Using linear regression of multiple different usage factors, I estimate that Burmistrov's expected CA/60 to be higher than his actual.
In other words, his line is actually beating minutes in terms of reducing shot attempts against.

They are drowning due to lack of shot attempts for.


I also checked Lowry, and he has the same thing. Stafford is a bit worse than expected in both for and against, but his differential is better.

Well, it's not quite as convincing as the Whileee "eye test", but still very interesting.

That line seems to have become a bit more aggressive in terms of attempting shots when they have possession in the offensive zone, so I wonder if that will start to show in terms of the shot attempt metrics. I suppose that when Burmi played with Kane, it was the perfect Corsi combo. Burmi is great at moving the puck out of his zone and into the offensive zone and Kane is a shooting fool. If Burmi played with Ehlers I would expect his shot attempt metrics to sky rocket.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

Guy has been a stud defensively. Getting better each game. Would like to see him with ehlers when Perrault gets injured

He is a minus player on a plus team. He is or was 2nd worst corsi on the team. To me that is the opposite of a stud defensively. Or, he is horribad offensively. Or a combination of both. Also, he is getting worse as games go by. He played himself onto the fourth line last game. That's not getting better, that's getting worse.

I am not a Burmi fan. I think relative to individual expectations, he is the lowest performer on the team. He is bringing Lowry and Stafford down.

 

[Koonta]

Burmi is up for the 1v1 challenge on TSN for his goal against the Laffs. First Jet to receive that honour I believe...go Burmi!!!!!

 

[fatschoonerrat]

He is a minus player on a plus team. He is or was 2nd worst corsi on the team. To me that is the opposite of a stud defensively. Or, he is horribad offensively. Or a combination of both. Also, he is getting worse as games go by. He played himself onto the fourth line last game. That's not getting better, that's getting worse.

I am not a Burmi fan. I think relative to individual expectations, he is the lowest performer on the team. He is bringing Lowry and Stafford down.

Mo addressed this multiple times over the past couple of days. Specifically that when you play the third line (vs. the opposition's best line), your stats are going to suffer. He mentioned +/- and scoring. If he's happy, I'm happy.

 

[AWSAA]

e.

I am not a Burmi fan. I think relative to individual expectations, he is the lowest performer on the team. He is bringing Lowry and Stafford down.

I haven't been impressed with Burmi's game this year and Lowry hasn't been any better. Could just as easily make the case he should be dropped to the 4th line. Wouldn't mind Petan subbing in for either to see which combination works best.

 

[scelaton]

Mo addressed this multiple times over the past couple of days. Specifically that when you play the third line (vs. the opposition's best line), your stats are going to suffer. He mentioned +/- and scoring. If he's happy, I'm happy.

Yeah, it's just that it's so damned tough to find someone to complain about, with the team winning and Pav playing so well.

Our PGTs are mere shadows of their former selves. What will we do?