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Player Discussion Alain Vigneault Part VI

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Bleed Ranger Blue said:
Thats not a change in systems. That is quite clearly players unable to execute the system.

The argument that AV is too stubborn with/too married to his gameplan is a legitimate one. What you are doing is taking diminishing returns due to a diminishing roster and blaming that squarely on the coach. Its a crock of an argument.
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It's absolutely a change in systems. Anyone who can play this game at the NHL level (hell, almost any level) can do those things.

Again, those things started to change in 2015 when he had arguably his most talented roster. The man to man is what it is, but its only a huge problem because of the way that this team plays in the other 2 zones - one and done scoring chances (at best) in the offensive zone, unimpeded entries for the opponent into their end and then near countless high end offensive opportunities. The system sucks, it sucked even when they were ultra talented.
 
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Go Away Staal said:
It's absolutely a change in systems. Anyone who can play this game at the NHL level (hell, almost any level) can do those things.

Again, those things started to change in 2015 when he had arguably his most talented roster. The man to man is what it is, but its only a huge problem because of the way that this team plays in the other 2 zones - one and done scoring chances (at best) in the offensive zone, unimpeded entries for the opponent into their end and then near countless high end offensive opportunities. The system sucks, it sucked even when they were ultra talented.
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When the team went to the Stanley Cup Final followed by a President's trophy/game 7 of the conference final? That really sucked.

You seem to be trying to make an argument that this system will never work under any circumstances despite recent evidence staring you in the face saying it has worked.
 
The system has changed, they used to only send two defender behind their own net to defend one opposing skater, now they are sending at least three skaters.

That is only kind of a joke, as the other team is doing it on purpose, they are going below the Rangers goal line, knowing all the defenders will follow them, then they can just make a luck pass to out in front to just about anywhere and their teammates will be there.
 
Off Sides said:
That is only kind of a joke, as the other team is doing it on purpose, they are going below the Rangers goal line, knowing all the defenders will follow them, then they can just make a luck pass to out in front to just about anywhere and their teammates will be there.
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Which is why we see so many cross ice passes by the opposition in the Rangers zone, not to mention how many skaters have a clear lane to the goalmouth.
 
Although tonight was not his fault, he needs to be fired. There has been zero accountability by him of his players. Miller has made the same mistakes all season. Where is the “coaching?” And God the worst thing that could have happened was Shattenkirk going down because now this IDIOT of a coach bumped up McDonagh to 1st PP minutes. This is painstaking. The team is not succeeding, lots of injuries, at least let ADA get the minutes.
 
Benching your 3rd leading scorer for two periods of a winnable game when you are fighting for a playoff spot, in favor of Holland and Desharnais, is 100% a fireable offense.

If one egregious turnover is enough to earn a permanent seat AV should be rolling 7 skaters by the 3rd period each night. Of course that would require this clown to demonstrate a modicum of consistency.

Fire AV.
 
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Fire him before he ruins J.T. Miller and Pavel Buchnevich, please. Admittedly, Miller's mistake on the goal was egregious. Terrible, horrific giveaway; that said, the team gave up SIX goals tonight. That's no fluke.

I'm not one for rewarding players who dog it, but these young guys (Skjei last season, Miller and Buchnevich this season) must feel like they're playing on eggshells. One mistake and you're attached to the bench while the veterans (Desharnais, Staal, Holden and Kampfer) are at absolutely no risk of losing ice time after making the same mistakes over and over again. Putrid.
 
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You certainly did not watch the game if you think Miller had any business being on that ice after the 1st period. He was miserably braindead and deserved what he got. In fact he has been braindead for much of the season from his turnovers to his laughable spin move entering the offensive zone on the boards. For ONCE AV did the right thing. His best move all season. Wish he did this more often, I’d have more respect for him. Miller is not a kid anymore, the mistakes he has made ALL SEASON LONG cannot keep happening. Forget that the game was winnable, this team is trending downward right now and if we are going to be keeping JT Miller then this a move that could wake him up in a part of his career where he still has a chance to figure it out and become effective in this league.

Also dont wanna hear how he is the 3rd best scorer on a mediocre team. Especially with Kreider out, Stepan traded with no real replacement, and Hayes missing the last 6 games. Zibanejad also missing significant time. Like cmon.

Ps, Buchnevich is the only one who should be complaining because has been manager terribly.
 
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HatTrick Swayze said:
Benching your 3rd leading scorer for two periods of a winnable game when you are fighting for a playoff spot, in favor of Holland and Desharnais, is 100% a fireable offense.

If one egregious turnover is enough to earn a permanent seat AV should be rolling 7 skaters by the 3rd period each night. Of course that would require this clown to demonstrate a modicum of consistency.

Fire AV.
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A.v. sucks...I want him gone more than anyone...but he was right...Miller's been awful for a good long while now...not just bad...awful. If we were healthy I woulda benched him a few times already.
 
I just don't see todays roster and the current system employed by AV in harmony with each other. Middle of the road offense and a bottom third D. How do you make the PO's, let alone contend for the cup with this stuff. The less skilled on this team don't even battle, they play like they are on the 1st or 2nd line-they have no competitive edge to bring to the table. Sadly, there are a lot of soft roster spots on this team.
With the 10:00 start, I usually record the game and watch after the first period, this way I can skip through the commercials and the rose colored commentary between periods. Last night I already knew what type of game we were playing and decided not to watch the game. The first time in 8 years I skipped a game.
 
You don't bench J.T. Miller if you want to win hockey games. Plain and simple. His replacement in the lineup is a below-average player from Hartford.

Once upon a time people wanted Torts to continuously bench Kreider. How'd that work out?
 
HatTrick Swayze said:
Benching your 3rd leading scorer for two periods of a winnable game when you are fighting for a playoff spot, in favor of Holland and Desharnais, is 100% a fireable offense.

If one egregious turnover is enough to earn a permanent seat AV should be rolling 7 skaters by the 3rd period each night. Of course that would require this clown to demonstrate a modicum of consistency.

Fire AV.
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And not benching 18 and 55 in favor of 76 during the Ottawa series.
 
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JC704 said:
You don't bench J.T. Miller if you want to win hockey games. Plain and simple. His replacement in the lineup is a below-average player from Hartford.

Once upon a time people wanted Torts to continuously bench Kreider. How'd that work out?
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Spare us all. If JT wanted to be part of “winning the hockey game” he wouldnt have made braindead lazy careless turnovers in the 1st period to be at fault for two goals.

Youre right about one thing though, the depth is not there especially with injuries, therefore JT should be stepping up his game, his focus, his production, into a bigger role, as was required of him to do the minute we traded Stepan in the offseason. He has done the opposite.
 
JC704 said:
You don't bench J.T. Miller if you want to win hockey games. Plain and simple. His replacement in the lineup is a below-average player from Hartford.

Once upon a time people wanted Torts to continuously bench Kreider. How'd that work out?
Click to expand...
Do you want to win a hockey game? That's nice...I'd prefer to win hockey gameS. Benching him was the right call imho.
 
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When I think about Vigneault, the thing that pisses me off the most is that he won't change. He just refuses to adapt his system.

When Torts was here--and I'm no Torts fan--he changed. He came in as the "Safe is Death" coach and transformed his system, largely to fit his personnel, into a defensively-oriented team that was going to block all the shots, play really good defense, grind, score ugly goals and win lots of 2-1 games on the back of an otherworldly goaltender.

Why does Vigneault refuse to change? EVERYONE can see the serious problems our defensive system causes, and that the only reason we're around .500 this year is because Hank found the fountain of youth. Does he not feel any warmth intensifying under his seat? You'd think he would and would say, "Shit, I better try something different before I'm out of work."

Unless, of course, he has the full backing and support of the FO. In which case, f***.
 
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