Player Discussion Alain Vigneault Part VI

[silverfish]

Not a fan of his track record in the past, and I kinda want to wholesale clean out this coaching staff. Maybe he’s changed over time, but I doubt it

I also hate his stupid earpiece

Think I remember looking it up, don't feel like doing it again. It's not like the squad he had in Columbus was all that spectacular. I think he had them near 50% CF% playing low-event hockey.

He only has the ear piece because he's the AC

 

[will1066]

Low-event hockey would be an improvement right now. I just want to see some structured, chip-and-chase, forecheck-cycle play instead of the freewheeling, freelancing, and fancy criss-crossing and drop passing that's going on all over the ice. How many times do we need Skjei or Smith "going for it" with an end to end rush, only to have the play go the other way and they're caught out of position, because of our incompetence protecting the puck? For once, Brooks' words have never rang more true. They fancy themselves a fast team when they're go karts on the Indy 500.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

Someday this thread will be Closed and that will be a good day indeed.

And someday will be the day we win the cup with coach who will fix everything as AV was supposed to be when we were no longer Tort’s kinda guys long after Fire Renney fixed everything.

In regard Sutter, I think it’s sort of a fixation with the team who knocked us out.

He getting a bit long in the tooth, and the Kings have been playing the same or slightly better hockey since they fired him.

There has to be some other coach that we need out there based on no more than hearsay and wishful thinking.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Think I remember looking it up, don't feel like doing it again. It's not like the squad he had in Columbus was all that spectacular. I think he had them near 50% CF% playing low-event hockey.

He only has the ear piece because he's the AC

First season was fine and then the wheels fell off after that. Also, the whole AC thing. Guy needs to be an ASSOCIATE HC, can’t be an assistant. How you’re so willing to let another megalomaniac run this team is sad!

 

[silverfish]

First season was fine and then the wheels fell off after that. Also, the whole AC thing. Guy needs to be an ASSOCIATE HC, can’t be an assistant. How you’re so willing to let another megalomaniac run this team is sad!

Assistant TO the Regional Manager.

 

[Inferno]

First season was fine and then the wheels fell off after that. Also, the whole AC thing. Guy needs to be an ASSOCIATE HC, can’t be an assistant. How you’re so willing to let another megalomaniac run this team is sad!

First season was fine because the guys were still afraid torts would punch them in the mouth of they didnt play defense. The further from torts we got the more our defense sucked.

 

[Mac n Gs]

First season was fine because the guys were still afraid torts would punch them in the mouth of they didnt play defense. The further from torts we got the more our defense sucked.

Woops should’ve clarified: we were referring to Arniel’s first season in Columbus

 

[silverfish]

Woops should’ve clarified: we were referring to Arniel’s first season in Columbus

It's kind of funny... NHL.com has him being fired on Jan 9th, so if you run a query for CBJ from October'11 through Jan 9, '12, he just couldn't buy a save.

(5v5 via Corsica.Hockey)
49.79 cf%
51.21 xGF%
44.44 GF%

He coached them to an xGA60 of < 2 (1.95) and the actual GA60 was 2.55.

Textbook low-event hockey.

I'm not out here trying to argue that Arniel is a good coach. But I'd rather see if he can handle it for the last run of the season rather than watch the team I've loved my whole life be reduced to the piece of shit it has been.

 

[Mac n Gs]

It's kind of funny... NHL.com has him being fired on Jan 9th, so if you run a query for CBJ from October'11 through Jan 9, '12, he just couldn't buy a save.

(5v5 via Corsica.Hockey)
49.79 cf%
51.21 xGF%
44.44 GF%

He coached them to an xGA60 of < 2 (1.95) and the actual GA60 was 2.55.

Textbook low-event hockey.

I'm not out here trying to argue that Arniel is a good coach. But I'd rather see if he can handle it for the last run of the season rather than watch the team I've loved my whole life be reduced to the piece of **** it has been.

Hey, I’m not arguing against it because I’d like to see AV fired too. I’d prefer fresh blood, but if Arniel can reinvent himself like we’ve seen Cassidy and Sullivan do, then I’m all for it next season.

 

[silverfish]

Hey, I’m not arguing against it because I’d like to see AV fired too. I’d prefer fresh blood, but if Arniel can reinvent himself like we’ve seen Cassidy and Sullivan do, then I’m all for it next season.

Does he need to reinvent himself, though? With the current roster, and Hank's age, a low-event coach is exactly what I'd be looking for. If we can limit the opposition to < 55 CA60 5v5 a game, that's when you know Hank is goign to allow you to win.

Arniel was an all situations 2.47 xGA60 coach. Imagine Hank playing at that? The Rangers this year are at 3.14. God bless.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Does he need to reinvent himself, though? With the current roster, and Hank's age, a low-event coach is exactly what I'd be looking for. If we can limit the opposition to < 55 CA60 5v5 a game, that's when you know Hank is goign to allow you to win.

Arniel was an all situations 2.47 xGA60 coach. Imagine Hank playing at that? The Rangers this year are at 3.14. God bless.

Yeah sorry, reinvent was vague. I’m basically saying if he can keep those same effects while having an up-tempo north-south style, then I’m all for it. Ya gotta adjust your gameplan to factor in speed and structure. Hitchcock did it with Dallas, and look at how they smoked us twice this year

 

[silverfish]

Yeah sorry, reinvent was vague. I’m basically saying if he can keep those same effects while having an up-tempo north-south style, then I’m all for it. Ya gotta adjust your gameplan to factor in speed and structure. Hitchcock did it with Dallas, and look at how they smoked us twice this year

This is OT but you know what was hilarious about the game last night? At the beginning of the period, Sam and Joe were like: "Dallas has a -11 goal differential in third periods, this is their weakest, the Rangers need to take advantage".

Then halfway through the period, they were like: "This is classic Hitchcock hockey. The Rangers can't create anything".

I lol'd.

 

[Irishguy42]

This is OT but you know what was hilarious about the game last night? At the beginning of the period, Sam and Joe were like: "Dallas has a -11 goal differential in third periods, this is their weakest, the Rangers need to take advantage".

Then halfway through the period, they were like: "This is classic Hitchcock hockey. The Rangers can't create anything".

I lol'd.

Was pretty good when Sam said that the Stars got better after Ruff was fired. So close to self-awareness.

 

[Mac n Gs]

This is OT but you know what was hilarious about the game last night? At the beginning of the period, Sam and Joe were like: "Dallas has a -11 goal differential in third periods, this is their weakest, the Rangers need to take advantage".

Then halfway through the period, they were like: "This is classic Hitchcock hockey. The Rangers can't create anything".

I lol'd.

LOL. Also, those stats could be misleading factoring in ENG and stuff. I’m amazed Sam said shot attempts four or five times last night

 

[silverfish]

Was pretty good when Sam said that the Stars got better after Ruff was fired. So close to self-awareness.

I have a hard time blaming the Rangers defensive woes on Ruff more than I do AV and whatever the f*** this system is, but the cards are sure not stacked in Ruff's favor, either. Which is why my plan when I fire AV and make Arniel the interim is to flip Ruff to offense.

 

[True Blue]

This is his biggest issue in a neat little nutshell. He’s lost the team. Coaches have shelf lives. AVs shelf life has expired. Need a fiery paersonality

However I would let him finish out the season. Helps our draft order

I am not sure he lost the team. I think that the problem is that he now has built a team that he has always drawn up. Play only whistle to whistle. Pond hockey mentality. The problem is that now, like his vaunted system, you see that sometimes things play out on the ice much differently than they do on the chalkboard. Or in your head.

 

[silverfish]

Or in your head.

♫With his system, and his matchups,
and his ice time, and his benchings,
in your head, in your head, rangers fans crying

In your head, in your head,
A-V, A-V, A-V-ie-ie-ie♫

I should probably get back to work.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

I am not sure he lost the team. I think that the problem is that he now has built a team that he has always drawn up. Play only whistle to whistle. Pond hockey mentality. The problem is that now, like his vaunted system, you see that sometimes things play out on the ice much differently than they do on the chalkboard. Or in your head.

I think the bigger problem is they're just not that good.

 

[Inferno]

Vegas right now on paper has probably a weaker lineup than we do. Its amazing how important coaching systems and effort are.

 

[True Blue]

I think the bigger problem is they're just not that good.

Also quite true. But when playing poorly, perhaps adjustments to a system that would accommodate the personnel a bit better would work? Eh.

This season has gone down the toilet. And frankly, did that from the start.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

I think the bigger problem is they're just not that good.

It's a lot easier to polish a turd in "what-if" analysis in Excel.

In reality this team was in transition and at best "meh.." this season before all the injuries, and now good lord...

Any other coach would see the greatness.

 

[Off Sides]

Why can't it be both roster and coaching?

 

[Irishguy42]

FWIW, Cerny was doing a mini AMA on Twitter. Don't know what kind of connections he has with the organization (I imagine he has some), but here is what he thought on AV and him being fired this offseason:





In which, Carp said "they also went into this season with low expectations, knowing it was a rebuild." which really doesn't make any sense, considering how they handled Buchnevich, giving Chytil ~12 minutes of NHL ice time, giving Kampfer a lot of TOI, etc.

Granted, there is still plenty of the season for things to change, so who knows, but I figured it's worth posting.



Take all of this with a grain of salt.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Boooooooooo

AV is not the person to be handling the rebuild

If the front office thinks he is the guy, there is no point in even trying

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I think the bigger problem is they're just not that good.

Ding Ding Ding. A coach losing a team is like porn - you know it when you see it. The best example, probably ever, is when the Rangers took a 10-2 shellacking in Dallas in Renney's last days.

This is a roster that continually gets overrated by the fanbase, and Im not sure why to be honest because they weren't that good or deep on paper from the get go, even without the injuries.