Player Discussion Alain Vigneault Part VI

[ManUtdTobbe]

Holden-Kampfer were COMPLETELY hammered against Habs, seems it's fine to ignore that part.
Bad players are allowed to make mistakes while good players are not?! How does that make sense?

 

[Inferno]

Smith and ADA have had some bad turnovers. Everyone said so during those games we lost. Should the coach just ignore them?

no, absolutely not..and i dont necessarily have an issue with it. but i do have an issue of...Staal and McDonagh? 7 defenseman but 1 playing 2 mins? and countless other stupid crap.

our best game was game 1. we should be 1-2, but we should be because of the first game not the last. we were atrocious against montreal.

 

[True Blue]

Smith and ADA have had some bad turnovers. Everyone said so during those games we lost. Should the coach just ignore them?

You mean the same way he turned a blind eye to what Girardi or Staal were doing on the ice last year?

 

[NickyFotiu]

Holden-Kampfer were COMPLETELY hammered against Habs, seems it's fine to ignore that part.
Bad players are allowed to make mistakes while good players are not?! How does that make sense?

Smith, ADA, Holden, and Kamper....which are the good players? They have all had long periods playing as 3rd pairing guys or below. Few coaches would make changes coming off their first win....a shutout win .

 

[Broadway Brad]

Smith and ADA have had some bad turnovers. Everyone said so during those games we lost. Should the coach just ignore them?

Four players have games that aren't great or flat out bad. The 2 good ones, or ones with potential, get benched. The 2 trash ones continue to play. That's the problem here.

 

[NickyFotiu]

You mean the same way he turned a blind eye to what Girardi or Staal were doing on the ice last year?

Blind eye? Girardi was 5th on the defense in minutes played then cut. Staal was warned in preseason that he has to play better and he has played a little better in the first 3 games.

 

[True Blue]

Blind eye? Girardi was 5th on the defense in minutes played then cut. Staal was warned in preseason that he has to play better and he has played a little better in the first 3 games.

In the most crucial of moments in the playoffs last year, who was on the ice to protect a lead?

 

[Kaapo Cabana]

Just when I was about to defend him about his handling of Chytil...


Lets just trade Chytil for Glass so we can all be put out of our misery

 

[Holocene]

I just don't understand AV's decision making process sometimes. Player has a bad game so scratch them the next game... okay I understand that but he is highly selective in who he thinks had a bad game and who he chooses to scratch. We saw Staal and Girardi have abysmal seasons last year and I don't recall them ever once getting scratched yet Smith and DeAngelo are scratched right away for plugs who aren't any better?

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

Smith, ADA, Holden, and Kamper....which are the good players? They have all had long periods playing as 3rd pairing guys or below. Few coaches would make changes coming off their first win....a shutout win .

Smith and ADA are twice the D-men Holden and Kampfer are. We can go back a year and change it to be about Staal and Girardi too if you want..
Clendening "has a few bad touches" and is permanently exiled, while Girardi and Staal have ONLY bad touched for the entire season but stay in.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Four players have games that aren't great or flat out bad. The 2 good ones, or ones with potential, get benched. The 2 trash ones continue to play. That's the problem here.

Players sit. That is part of coaching. Zooks was benched. Ck was benched. JT was benched. Hayes was benched. This happens on every team in the league. If the coach isn't supposed to ever bench anyone do we really need a coach?

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

Players sit. That is part of coaching. Zooks was benched. Ck was benched. JT was benched. Hayes was benched. This happens on every team in the league. If the coach isn't supposed to ever bench anyone do we really need a coach?

It's not that he's benching someone, it's that he CONSISTENTLY is making roster decisions which makes us a worse team on the ice.
He has short leash on skilled players and long leashes to his useless pets. It's a double standard thats insane...

Also, he's a BAD COACH, tell me one single coaching thing he does which is good.

 

[Kaapo Cabana]

I wonder how much of this blame should go to Lindy Ruff

 

[NickyFotiu]

Smith and ADA are twice the D-men Holden and Kampfer are. We can go back a year and change it to be about Staal and Girardi too if you want..
Clendening "has a few bad touches" and is permanently exiled, while Girardi and Staal have ONLY bad touched for the entire season but stay in.

I did not bring up Dan nor Staal. They were brought up to me. Most people know their contracts played a role in their situations like it or not. I liked Clendo but he has been on team after team. He was not playing like an all star. The bottom line is that fans argue over the 4th line and 3rd pairing on most teams. If you can do a better job coaching then AV then go apply for the job.

 

[Broadway Brad]

Players sit. That is part of coaching. Zooks was benched. Ck was benched. JT was benched. Hayes was benched. This happens on every team in the league. If the coach isn't supposed to ever bench anyone do we really need a coach?

Justifying bad decisions by stating that they happened in the past is a terrible way to evaluate a coach.

 

[NickyFotiu]

It's not that he's benching someone, it's that he CONSISTENTLY is making roster decisions which makes us a worse team on the ice.
He has short leash on skilled players and long leashes to his useless pets. It's a double standard thats insane...

Also, he's a BAD COACH, tell me one single coaching thing he does which is good.

1. Win regular season games
2. Bring teams to the cup finals
3. Helped develop Zooks, CK, JT, Hayes, and Brady in the last 4 years
4. Jack Adams award

Please tell me all the NHL coaches, players and media that say AV is a bad coach.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

I did not bring up Dan nor Staal. They were brought up to me. Most people know their contracts played a role in their situations like it or not. I liked Clendo but he has been on team after team. He was not playing like an all star. The bottom line is that fans argue over the 4th line and 3rd pairing on most teams. If you can do a better job coaching then AV then go apply for the job.

Oh come on, the motherbleeping appeal to authority argument, really?!?!

 

[NickyFotiu]

Justifying bad decisions by stating that they happened in the past is a terrible way to evaluate a coach.

I just wish I knew as much about coaching hockey as you do.

 

[Off Sides]

Smith and ADA are twice the D-men Holden and Kampfer are. We can go back a year and change it to be about Staal and Girardi too if you want..
Clendening "has a few bad touches" and is permanently exiled, while Girardi and Staal have ONLY bad touched for the entire season but stay in.

I agree they are better players, getting them to play like better players may happen because they get benched?

I agree with you on the past situations, that was all on AV, he took players out that were playing fine to insert players who were going to play worse based on the impossible chance those inserted would play better.

Here I think he is just trying to not change a roster that won, piss off a goalie who had a shutout, and he is trying to get two players who have the ability to play far better than who they are being scratched for to play better.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

1. Win regular season games
2. Bring teams to the cup finals
3. Helped develop Zooks, CK, JT, Hayes, and Brady in the last 4 years
4. Jack Adams award

Please tell me all the NHL coaches, players and media that say AV is a bad coach.

1. & 2. He was riding two generational goalies in their peak while having GM's in win now modes providing very good rosters. Any decent coach would have atleast one cup under those circumstances, so that's a weak argument at best.

3. How much did he do for developing them and how much was it just them being really talented?! Talent always prevails. AV probably didn't stunt them but i doubt he did much to develop them.

4. Weak argument, look at who wins Jack Adams, it's pretty much a PDO award.

Counter: Tell me one specific actual coaching thing, as in system, tactics, roster management etc that he does well.

 

[Ail]

Fire Alvin Vinaigrette, sick of looking his goofy head. Also fire Lindy Ruff because I will be sick of looking at his mustache by December so they might as well get it over with.

 

[NickyFotiu]

1. & 2. He was riding two generational goalies in their peak while having GM's in win now modes providing very good rosters. Any decent coach would have atleast one cup under those circumstances, so that's a weak argument at best.

3. How much did he do for developing them and how much was it just them being really talented?! Talent always prevails. AV probably didn't stunt them but i doubt he did much to develop them.

4. Weak argument, look at who wins Jack Adams, it's pretty much a PDO award.

Counter: Tell me one specific actual coaching thing, as in system, tactics, roster management etc that he does well.

I'm not going to discuss this with you any longer. You are determined to believe AV is a bad coach regardless of any debate. I'm not the kind of person that will waste my time banging my head against a brick wall for over 10 minutes.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

Oh, so because i argue my point you decide to not discuss any more, how convenient... Go back to appealing to authority and stick your neck in the sand then.

 

[Inferno]

Id give DeAngelo, and Smith a longer leash in terms of being scratched..you can make in game adjustments.

putting Kampfer and Holden on the ice is just idiotic. It showed. That much is undeniable.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Id give DeAngelo, and Smith a longer leash in terms of being scratched..you can make in game adjustments.

putting Kampfer and Holden on the ice is just idiotic. It showed. That much is undeniable.

They will definitely get their chance but coming off a horrible 2 games changes were expected. Smith who I like and have defended has looked bad for a month. Almost any coach in the same position would have made changes as well. You can count on that as well as more changes after future games we play horribly in. It is the norm.