Player Discussion Alain Vigneault: Part III

[Inferno]

bodie? uggghhhhh

 

[Captain Lindy]

What are the huge tweaks he's making ?

Stalberg Staal Lindberg had good chemistry. AV broke them up. Yandle/McI/Klein were pretty good together. He insists on playing Boyle with Yandle.

 

[Inferno]

What are the huge tweaks he's making ?

Tweaks...

Move Boyle and Yandle off the same effing pair. Put Stalberg back with Staal and Lindberg. get Glass the eff out of the lineup. get Fasth the eff out of the top 9.

thats tweaks...its also called having even the most basic understand of whats working and whats not.

 

[Mordeth]

I might be totally wrong with this, but was it Nash's injury that made the Brass Nash Zucc line change from earlier in the season, or was it their bad play, or was it a line tweak to make Kreider and Stepan get going? I seem to remember some lines being tweaked to make other lines go, even tho they changed up a good line to get 2 good lines and it never worked. And they never got back to having that good first line.

In either case, its win or die. And i think Rangers are better away then they are at home. So this will be interesting. Very likely i feel they will win this one. And then loose the next one. Teasing us, but then letting us down at home again.

 

[Bluenote13]

Yeah you didn't have to repeat that swede, I read it the first time and I didn't agree with that the first time

I agree all those teams have great young players we don't have those kind of players especially to use in the playoffs those guys all had great pedigrees before they got to their big clubs, who are our comparables we could incorporate into this lineup?

This kind of thinking is also way past its due date, like it or not this is a win now team this season. Anyone who knows me knows I like young skilled affordable talent, but placing them in bad situations is not my idea of bringing them into the fold.

And for all the pissing and moaning, Mcilrath is still ahead of comparable NHLer at his age, so is Kreider and Miller and Skjei. Add Hayes in there too maybe.

 

[Bluenote13]

Stalberg Staal Lindberg had good chemistry. AV broke them up. Yandle/McI/Klein were pretty good together. He insists on playing Boyle with Yandle.

Those are good points, hardly fireable offense's though. They're not 'no Brainers' like your making them out to be.

He's guilty of being set in his way, a way that had gotten him very very far, something you are big enough to admit, no ?

 

[Mordeth]

What are the huge tweaks he's making ?

He's doing the wrong tweaks at the wrong times, and the right tweaks at the wrong times aslo.

Like the game where he moved Skej over to his off side mid game... even tho he and his partner had been playing well so far that game. And it put the entire D off balance after that.

His line tweaks never work, which is not always his fault, the players have responsibility also, however its his job to find lines that work togheter. And find a good game plan. Its been lacking all year long. Henrik and Zucc saved his season early on, and they have been scraping by ever since.

His game plans seems way off, and he does bascily nothing after the game has started because he "trusts" his players. But clearly somethings not working..

 

[Inferno]

im not sure anyone here is arguing that this lineup isnt flawed...most if not all of us agree with that? i just think you have to separate a flawed lineup, with the coaches decision making process. they are mutually exclusive imho.

just because you have a flawed lineup does not give you a free pass to put your team in a worse position than they already are with said flawed lineup.

why does he get a free pass for playing Tanner Glass over Oscar Lindberg?

Why does he get a free pass for the handling of McIlrath?

all i hear from the other side is that the team is flawed its going nowhere as is, yadda yadda..and while that may (or may not) be true, it has absolutely nothing to do with why most of the anti-av crowd wants him gone. If you cant see that, im not sure what there is left to say.

 

[cwede]

bodie? uggghhhhh

because why?
his size at player database website?

i believe he is higher reward, no worse risk, than Diaz or Boyle
kid has instincts, skills and intensity

not saying he is a savior, but just as likely to be an improvement
he'd be playing for his career, not his tee times

 

[Mordeth]

im not sure anyone here is arguing that this lineup isnt flawed...most if not all of us agree with that? i just think you have to separate a flawed lineup, with the coaches decision making process. they are mutually exclusive imho.

just because you have a flawed lineup does not give you a free pass to put your team in a worse position than they already are with said flawed lineup.

why does he get a free pass for playing Tanner Glass over Oscar Lindberg?

Why does he get a free pass for the handling of McIlrath?

all i hear from the other side is that the team is flawed its going nowhere as is, yadda yadda..and while that may (or may not) be true, it has absolutely nothing to do with why most of the anti-av crowd wants him gone. If you cant see that, im not sure what there is left to say.

Is it really so flawed tho? It seems most of the most trusted players just didn't get going this year. Which partly could be put on AV, and partly on the player himself.

His handling on this squad has been really bad imo. Bottom down. From the line tweaks to playing Glass and too old Boyle every game.

 

[SA16]

im not sure anyone here is arguing that this lineup isnt flawed...most if not all of us agree with that? i just think you have to separate a flawed lineup, with the coaches decision making process. they are mutually exclusive imho.

just because you have a flawed lineup does not give you a free pass to put your team in a worse position than they already are with said flawed lineup.

why does he get a free pass for playing Tanner Glass over Oscar Lindberg?

Why does he get a free pass for the handling of McIlrath?

all i hear from the other side is that the team is flawed its going nowhere as is, yadda yadda..and while that may (or may not) be true, it has absolutely nothing to do with why most of the anti-av crowd wants him gone. If you cant see that, im not sure what there is left to say.

Yea this. One has nothing to do with the other. He's put in a bad spot having Girardi/Staal there but that doesn't mean he has to play them 20 mins a game against top players. He has Glass on the roster but has no need to actually play him. He does not need to give all 6 defenseman roughly even TOI (1. Klein 17:49 EVTOI/GP. 5. Staal 17:17. That's a 32 second difference from the Dman with the most minutes and the second least.). He does not need to play Jesper Fast in the top 6 as often as he does and he definitely should not have led all forwards in SH TOI/GP. These are all independent of things like Lundqvist needing to make big saves and Nash needing to score goals etc...

 

[Gordon Bombay]

im not sure anyone here is arguing that this lineup isnt flawed...most if not all of us agree with that? i just think you have to separate a flawed lineup, with the coaches decision making process. they are mutually exclusive imho.

just because you have a flawed lineup does not give you a free pass to put your team in a worse position than they already are with said flawed lineup.

why does he get a free pass for playing Tanner Glass over Oscar Lindberg?

Why does he get a free pass for the handling of McIlrath?

all i hear from the other side is that the team is flawed its going nowhere as is, yadda yadda..and while that may (or may not) be true, it has absolutely nothing to do with why most of the anti-av crowd wants him gone. If you cant see that, im not sure what there is left to say.

Pretty much what I've been alluding to as well. I would add in the insistence of the man to man defensive system which didnt work from game 1 this year. It was clear right away that the core guys couldn't play it.

 

[Captain Lindy]

Those are good points, hardly fireable offense's though. They're not 'no Brainers' like your making them out to be.

He's guilty of being set in his way, a way that had gotten him very very far, something you are big enough to admit, no ?

I don't understand why you are getting personal here.

 

[Inferno]

because why?
his size at player database website?

i believe he is higher reward, no worse risk, than Diaz or Boyle
kid has instincts, skills and intensity

not saying he is a savior, but just as likely to be an improvement
he'd be playing for his career, not his tee times

ive seen him play a few times...i think hes a TERRIBLE defenseman. hes a forward playing defense.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

Should be fired immediately after the game today if we lose.

 

[Inferno]

Is it really so flawed tho? It seems most of the most trusted players just didn't get going this year. Which partly could be put on AV, and partly on the player himself.

His handling on this squad has been really bad imo. Bottom down. From the line tweaks to playing Glass and too old Boyle every game.

yeah im not convinced its flawed...but i do think many of the players are having off seasons...it doesnt give AV a free pass from playing them when they suck, and benching kids who have played well. doesnt give him a free pass because he changed the lines to get Nash and Staal together and when it didnt work he didnt go back to what was working...

weve gone over this a million times...i think if you (not you in particular...just you as in you the reader) think AV doesnt deserve to be fired after this crapshow of a season, you'll never think he does...because half the lineup underachieved, and the team is about to be humiliated off the ice.

all the underlying stats show the rangers are primed for a significant regression next year...how likely is it we'll lead the league in shooting percentage again? how likely is it a team with the 26th worse corsi ranking in the NHL will make the playoffs?

too much of it rides on 1 mans shoulders...and when you abuse those shoulders, sometimes they falter.

 

[Bluenote13]

Tweaks...

Move Boyle and Yandle off the same effing pair. Put Stalberg back with Staal and Lindberg. get Glass the eff out of the lineup. get Fasth the eff out of the top 9.

thats tweaks...its also called having even the most basic understand of whats working and whats not.

First off, small potatuhs as Hyman Roth once eloquently noted. Those are not team altering moves, or slam dunks to improve the overall lineup. Besides Lindberg, you are putting the team at risk of being worse defensively, we could both agree that its worth a try but how many Pro coaches do you see making moves that will make their team more susceptible defensively?? I agree that Lindberg is an upgrade over Glass as a player, most NHL'ers would be. But again, his element of having sandpaper to his game is the closest to sandpaper this team has. Again, understandable, even if you don't agree.

He's doing the wrong tweaks at the wrong times, and the right tweaks at the wrong times aslo.

Like the game where he moved Skej over to his off side mid game... even tho he and his partner had been playing well so far that game. And it put the entire D off balance after that.

His line tweaks never work, which is not always his fault, the players have responsibility also, however its his job to find lines that work togheter. And find a good game plan. Its been lacking all year long. Henrik and Zucc saved his season early on, and they have been scraping by ever since.

His game plans seems way off, and he does bascily nothing after the game has started because he "trusts" his players. But clearly somethings not working..

Samuelsson sets the D pairings, come on man, why is it always the one man band? He's the coach but the coaching staff as a collective are responsible for what the pairings look like.

im not sure anyone here is arguing that this lineup isnt flawed...most if not all of us agree with that? i just think you have to separate a flawed lineup, with the coaches decision making process. they are mutually exclusive imho.

just because you have a flawed lineup does not give you a free pass to put your team in a worse position than they already are with said flawed lineup.

why does he get a free pass for playing Tanner Glass over Oscar Lindberg?

Why does he get a free pass for the handling of McIlrath?

all i hear from the other side is that the team is flawed its going nowhere as is, yadda yadda..and while that may (or may not) be true, it has absolutely nothing to do with why most of the anti-av crowd wants him gone. If you cant see that, im not sure what there is left to say.

Again, your roster tweaks are hardly fireable offenses when you see almost every coach in the league do the same with no depth and deteriorating stalwarts.

I explained Glass/Lindberg, I'm Lindberg's biggest fan, yet I understand why he gets the shaft.

And once again, I think all of the young guys have improved vastly under this coaching staff, going back to Hartford too, especially the defense. Mcilrath is way ahead of last year and ahead of comparable players at his age. Miller is light years better than last year. Kreider is in line or ahead of a guy like Backes in terms of well, everything. Lindberg and Skjei didn't look out of place at all, will have more responsibilities going forward.

Is it really so flawed tho? It seems most of the most trusted players just didn't get going this year. Which partly could be put on AV, and partly on the player himself.

His handling on this squad has been really bad imo. Bottom down. From the line tweaks to playing Glass and too old Boyle every game.

You can disagree with it all you want, I disagree with things he's done as well, but these things are not totally out of the ordinary when you see that pro coaches have always been this 'bad' by using whats worked for them in the past.

[

 

[Bluenote13]

I don't understand why you are getting personal here.

How so?

 

[Bluenote13]

yeah im not convinced its flawed...but i do think many of the players are having off seasons...it doesnt give AV a free pass from playing them when they suck, and benching kids who have played well.

This is always a veiled shot at the benching of Mcilrath, why don't you just say it, I'm getting it anyway

And how many times do you have to be told he hasn't been so amazing that he deserved it, nor does that mean he was bad enough not to. Confusing right?

 

[Inferno]

Benching of Lindberg makes no sense to me either.

Agree to disagree.

 

[haveandare]

This is always a veiled shot at the benching of Mcilrath, why don't you just say it, I'm getting it anyway

And how many times do you have to be told he hasn't been so amazing that he deserved it, nor does that mean he was bad enough not to. Confusing right?

He was absolutely so good that he deserved it when he was playing every game with yandle. Then he got scratched because it was "the right thing to do." Got gifted a young kid who was looking like he could replace a huge anchor, chopped him down to that the anchor could get back in.

 

[Dagoon44]

Benching of Lindberg makes no sense to me either.

Agree to disagree.

AV is a horrible coach and the day he was hired I said in 2 yrs we would all hate him.. Larry Brooks once again picks up on a story I broke AV Hate McIlrath and wanted him gone all season and refused to play him.. Diaz is his boy and line up today is a disgrace. AV needs to be fired for the sake of the youth in this system regardless of this series he is not the right fight

 

[haveandare]

Why go 11/7 in elimination games when we never do that otherwise? So stupid.

 

[E-Train]

He was absolutely so good that he deserved it when he was playing every game with yandle. Then he got scratched because it was "the right thing to do." Got gifted a young kid who was looking like he could replace a huge anchor, chopped him down to that the anchor could get back in.

100% true. McIlrath could've been even further along without this stubborn **** pulling this crap all season. He can't be gone soon enough IMO. Gramps really needed to be in the lineup basically every game in the second half too. Really paid off there.

 

[Inferno]

Don't have a problem going 11 and 7...I'm OK with the lineup today.