Crease
Chief Justice of the HFNYR Court
- Jul 12, 2004
- 24,507
- 26,882
I think the real issue is the team's volatility. Red hot. Ice cold. Gems. Stinkers.
Player Discussion Alain Vigneault: Part III
- Thread starter Megustaelhockey
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I think the real issue is the team's volatility. Red hot. Ice cold. Gems. Stinkers.
If they continue to get boat raced by horrible teams.
Make all the excuses you want, but this has been the norm for a while now.
Vinny DeAngelo
Jimmy Easy to defend
No way av gets fired mid year with injuries...
his hot start saved him for the year. Media had him listed as top choice for jack Adams at the quarter mark
his hot start saved him for the year. Media had him listed as top choice for jack Adams at the quarter mark
TheTakedown
Puck is Life
- Jul 11, 2012
- 13,689
- 1,480
It's nearly the same trajectory he had in Vancouver. The only difference is Vancouver's core had run it's course by the time he was fired, whereas the Rangers have a relatively young core.
Rangers had two good years in 13-14 and 14-15... Since then, they've won a total of ONE playoff series, and with this kind of performance, I can see it happening again too.
I'm not saying AV is a bad coach, but I'm starting to wonder whether or not he's run his course here in NY. We're seeing a lot of the same **** over and over from him, and it's frustrating.
I want to believe that Sullivan learned from Torts to understand who deserved minutes and who didn't. AV tends to do the opposite and let these guys get long leashes to figure **** out. It's almost like he bases a lot of his idealizations of these guys performances on potential of the player, as in:
"McDonagh SHOULD be better than Clendening on the Power Play, So I will take Clendening off the 1st unit and put McDonagh there. When he finally reaches that point, I'll have been proven right that McDonagh was a better fit"
"Girardi and Klein are the 'better defensive defenseman' than McIlrath because their ceilings, which are known quantities to me, are higher than Dylan's right now, so I will play them instead, and when they bounce back, I'll have been proven right"
"Jesper Fast is absolutely a top 6 player. I'll shoehorn him into the lineup anytime a line needs a spark, and when that line starts to perform, it'll be because of Jesper, and I'll have proven he's a top 6 player"
"Tanner does everything I need him to do on that 4th line. Whenever he is on their, our team plays well, and therefore I know he is a top 12 player and I need him in the lineup"
Maybe it's just me, but this is the vibe I get from AV. I know he is a smart guy, but I also feel like he puts a high value on certain "commodities" that some players bring, but a lot of times that player has much bigger flaws in which he puts a very low impact on the player as a whole... This results in Girardi being force fed top minutes, Staal's leashing being longer than the GW bridge, and Clendening being stapled to the press box.
In other words, it basically means that AV has "gut feelings" that he seems to always work off of, but time and time again those gut feelings produce the exact same result. Call them emotions, call them bad decisions, call them coaches call, but I am calling bull **** on it.
Rangers had two good years in 13-14 and 14-15... Since then, they've won a total of ONE playoff series, and with this kind of performance, I can see it happening again too.
I'm not saying AV is a bad coach, but I'm starting to wonder whether or not he's run his course here in NY. We're seeing a lot of the same **** over and over from him, and it's frustrating.
I want to believe that Sullivan learned from Torts to understand who deserved minutes and who didn't. AV tends to do the opposite and let these guys get long leashes to figure **** out. It's almost like he bases a lot of his idealizations of these guys performances on potential of the player, as in:
"McDonagh SHOULD be better than Clendening on the Power Play, So I will take Clendening off the 1st unit and put McDonagh there. When he finally reaches that point, I'll have been proven right that McDonagh was a better fit"
"Girardi and Klein are the 'better defensive defenseman' than McIlrath because their ceilings, which are known quantities to me, are higher than Dylan's right now, so I will play them instead, and when they bounce back, I'll have been proven right"
"Jesper Fast is absolutely a top 6 player. I'll shoehorn him into the lineup anytime a line needs a spark, and when that line starts to perform, it'll be because of Jesper, and I'll have proven he's a top 6 player"
"Tanner does everything I need him to do on that 4th line. Whenever he is on their, our team plays well, and therefore I know he is a top 12 player and I need him in the lineup"
Maybe it's just me, but this is the vibe I get from AV. I know he is a smart guy, but I also feel like he puts a high value on certain "commodities" that some players bring, but a lot of times that player has much bigger flaws in which he puts a very low impact on the player as a whole... This results in Girardi being force fed top minutes, Staal's leashing being longer than the GW bridge, and Clendening being stapled to the press box.
In other words, it basically means that AV has "gut feelings" that he seems to always work off of, but time and time again those gut feelings produce the exact same result. Call them emotions, call them bad decisions, call them coaches call, but I am calling bull **** on it.
JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK
Twenty f*ckin years
- Oct 8, 2010
- 79,463
- 16,898
I wouldn't say I'm particularly fond of Vigneault, but frankly, I can't entirely place the blame on him for the struggles we've gone through these past two years. Our defense has been terrible.
That said - he has had a hand in it. I've never liked his numerous questionable personnel decisions (this doesn't include the Clendening saga - as I said earlier in this thread, no coach in this league would consistently play Clendo over guys like Klein and Girardi, with big contracts and good reputations), and some of his in game coaching is questionable as well. He seems to have trouble adjusting...but I think that's the problem with a lot of coaches. Nearly every coach thinks THEIR gameplan is the best, which is why they use these gameplans in the first place. It's incredibly tough to find a guy like Mike Sullivan (...oh) who can adjust very well in game and help build a strategy around the players given to him.
I don't think AV should be fired based on performance alone. That said, I'm generally of the belief that coaches should have a short shelf life unless they're god-tier coaches like Scotty Bowman or Al Arbour. A coach's words and gameplan can and almost always will get stale. So, unless we manage to go deep this year on the back of a great coaching performance, I think he should be replaced in the offseason to get some fresh blood in the organization.
That said - he has had a hand in it. I've never liked his numerous questionable personnel decisions (this doesn't include the Clendening saga - as I said earlier in this thread, no coach in this league would consistently play Clendo over guys like Klein and Girardi, with big contracts and good reputations), and some of his in game coaching is questionable as well. He seems to have trouble adjusting...but I think that's the problem with a lot of coaches. Nearly every coach thinks THEIR gameplan is the best, which is why they use these gameplans in the first place. It's incredibly tough to find a guy like Mike Sullivan (...oh) who can adjust very well in game and help build a strategy around the players given to him.
I don't think AV should be fired based on performance alone. That said, I'm generally of the belief that coaches should have a short shelf life unless they're god-tier coaches like Scotty Bowman or Al Arbour. A coach's words and gameplan can and almost always will get stale. So, unless we manage to go deep this year on the back of a great coaching performance, I think he should be replaced in the offseason to get some fresh blood in the organization.
JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK
Twenty f*ckin years
- Oct 8, 2010
- 79,463
- 16,898
There are always good coaches available in the offseason. Gorton may have to get creative, and I trust him when it comes to that.
I don't know. After Torts there's some relief that we have a coach that doesn't hate offense. But AV really has some warts too.
With a win tomorrow we have the league lead in points and wins and some want the coach gone. Fantasy land for sure. He's far from being perfect and does make some head scratching sometimes but should get more praise then criticism but then again this is hf
Machinehead
HFNYR MVP
I'm tired of AV. He reminds me of Ron Low, his team doesn't even show up anymore. Every ****ing game his team gives ZERO effort. The guy needs to go. I'll ****ing anyone at this point.
Megustaelhockey
"I like hockey" in Spanish
- Apr 29, 2011
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