Player Discussion Alain Vigneault: Part III

[Kel Varnsen]

Fire him during the intermission, KHL-style.

 

[haveandare]

Don't have a problem going 11 and 7...I'm OK with the lineup today.

I don't like it only in that he never had them play this way, why start in an elimination game? Inserts some level of doubt and confusion that isn't necessary in a do or die scenario.

 

[Holocene]

 

[NYRFAN218]

This article was written in 2013 but the amount of relevant things in here to today is downright scary.

Yesterday’s announcement of the firing of Canuck coach Alain Vigneault was certainly inevitable, though, in the minds of many, not deserved. Canuck President and General Manager Mike Gillis was sacrificing his coach to save himself many said. It is Gillis, who deserves the scrutiny many will say. And not Vigneault, the media friendly long-term coach, who has easily amassed the best coaching record in franchise history.

And certainly Gillis’ body of work requires plenty of critical appraisal at this point. And that will most certainly come. If it already hasn’t. It was obvious from Gillis’ demeanour yesterday that he is clearly feeling the heat.

But the time for a coaching change in Vancouver had long passed. Despite Vigneault’s gaudy record as Canuck boss, his day was done. Witness the following.

Complacent Canucks

Since the Stanley Cup loss to Boston two years ago, the number of sixty minute efforts expended by his squad could be counted on one hand. The President’s Trophy and divisional titles in that span were buoyed by a weak schedule and strong goaltending. We won’t go so far to say his team had tuned him out, but they had become a mostly complacent crew, fully exposed in their consecutive first round playoff exits to lower seeded opponents.

http://vancouversun.com/news/community-blogs/why-canuck-coach-alain-vigneault-deserved-to-be-fired

Edit - LOL didn't even realize who was sitting behind him in the picture.

 

[LeetchisGod]

AV is here to chew bubble gum and make horrible decisions.

 

[Ail]

Is he gone yet.

 

[Captain Lindy]

This article was written in 2013 but the amount of relevant things in here to today is downright scary.



http://vancouversun.com/news/community-blogs/why-canuck-coach-alain-vigneault-deserved-to-be-fired

Edit - LOL didn't even realize who was sitting behind him in the picture.

Wow! Prescient article!

To his credit, Vigneault developed the likes of Ryan Kesler, Jannik Hansen and Chris Tanev. But more strikingly, players like Cody Hodgson and Zack Kassian could never find their way out of his doghouse. The rift with Hodgson, in fact, began when Coach Vigneault accused the rookie of faking what turned out to be a serious back injury.

Sound familiar?

 

[Mac n Gs]

Rofl

 

[haveandare]

Please, please lose this guy. I can't watch another season of this.

 

[gardenparty]

Wow! Prescient article!



Sound familiar?

Yea, but give coach V some credit here. It's not like he was down on 2 league all-stars. Where are Cody Hodgson and Zack Kassian today? As far as I know, Hodgson is out of the league after a failed tryout with the Preds (and falling off the map in Buffalo), and Kassian is trying to rebuild his career as a bottom 6 forward with the Oilers after entering rehab and being forced out of Montreal.

 

[ArPanet]

Stalberg Staal Lindberg had good chemistry. AV broke them up. Yandle/McI/Klein were pretty good together. He insists on playing Boyle with Yandle.

In game 4 the S S L line somehow got reunited for a shift in the first period and drew a penalty in the O zone. See them together again? Nope.

I think the guy should go away. Let Minnesota and Ottawa have a little bidding war for his services.

That he scratches Glass for game 5 reveals that he knew the guy wasn't good enough and still he sent him out there game after game. Didn't shorten his bench in the series at all.

Although players are responsible for themselves ultimately, nobody on that roster could believe AV was giving his guys the best chances to win, playing Glass at all or using Girardi the way he did.

And that "little pop play that we do" to absolve Girardi of an absolutely odious turnover and then not respond in a way that shows the team a certain level of engagement is required, is a sequence of his time as Rangers coach I'll never forget.

AV is like a parent that wants more to be a bro to his kids than make the tough choices that help guide children to be stronger, more responsible adults.

My fear now of course is, if they fire him, who is next. It wouldn't surprise me if Chris Drury gets an offer.

 

[NYR89]

If fired who replaces him?

 

[FLYLine27*]

If fired who replaces him?

Renney

 

[haohmaru]

If fired who replaces him?

Adam Oates

 

[Maineice11]

If fired who replaces him?

Messier.

Why? He is someone that can handle the NYC lights and media. He can read when the players need pressure and when they need freedom.

With that said he needs a supporting cast that has coached in the NHL. I originally thought of Keenan, but I think Oates would be a good supporting cast. And bring up Beukeboom.

The roster will need work in the offseason too.

This is assuming Messier still wants the job.

Edit: Accountability is needed in the new staff

 

[haveandare]

I don't think the answer to who replaces him is obvious but good coaches are often unknowns before they get a crack at it. We have some good knowledgable people upstairs and they should be capable of finding a good coach.

 

[haveandare]

Messier.

Why? He is someone that can handle the NYC lights and media. He can read when the players need pressure and when they need freedom.

With that said he needs a supporting cast that has coached in the NHL. I originally thought of Keenan, but I think Oates would be a good supporting cast. And bring up Beukeboom.

The roster will need work in the offseason too.

This is assuming Messier still wants the job.

Edit: Accountability is needed in the new staff

I thought Oates was garbage with Washington and I don't think we need an amateur like messier.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

The core of this team has come up short with two coaches—two very different coaches. At what point, does it fall on them? I know it's not as easy as saying "Fire AV" but it's on the players. Scottie Bowman couldn't win the Cup with this roster.

I think any talk of replacing the coach is just another way of avoiding the larger issue—the roster, the wear and tear on the players and the lack of young talent pushing their way into the NHL.'

The house isn't structurally sound, keep changing the paint color doesn't fix that.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

I thought Oates was garbage with Washington and I don't think we need an amateur like messier.

Maybe they could bury a hatchet again!

 

[Maineice11]

The core of this team has come up short with two coaches—two very different coaches. At what point, does it fall on them? I know it's not as easy as saying "Fire AV" but it's on the players. Scottie Bowman couldn't win the Cup with this roster.

I think any talk of replacing the coach is just another way of avoiding the larger issue—the roster, the wear and tear on the players and the lack of young talent pushing their way into the NHL.'

The house isn't structurally sound, keep changing the paint color doesn't fix that.

I agree, which is why I think the roster needs changes too. Most of this season, certainly this disastrous series, it looked like AV lost the room. You can't get rid of the entire roster, which leaves residual effects if you keep AV. It looks to me AV cannot adjust, he has one style, for sometime it is effective, but opposing teams figure it out, ie Tampa, Pittsburgh.

It is normally said, GMs get 2 or 3 coaching changes in their tenure. Yes, Gorton has been in the organization for sometime, but he may want his own guy in place. By keeping AV this year, he still has those 2 to 3 coaching changes at his disposal. At the same time, Sather is still in the organization, so the dynamic in this organization is different than others.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

I agree, which is why I think the roster needs changes too. Most of this season, certainly this disastrous series, it looked like AV lost the room. You can't get rid of the entire roster, which leaves residual effects if you keep AV. It looks to me AV cannot adjust, he has one style, for sometime it is effective, but opposing teams figure it out, ie Tampa, Pittsburgh.

It is normally said, GMs get 2 or 3 coaching changes in their tenure. Yes, Gorton has been in the organization for sometime, but he may want his own guy in place. By keeping AV this year, he still has those 2 to 3 coaching changes at his disposal. At the same time, Sather is still in the organization, so the dynamic in this organization is different than others.

The team was allowed to run out Torts. They shouldn't be allowed to run out AV.

I guess the larger question and more difficult question is a philosophical one: what kind of team do they want to be? They were not fast enough to hang with the Pens. And they're not built to play a physical game. Make that determination and then decide the fate of the coach.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Has Messier ever coached? I don't think bringing in a rookie coach is the best idea

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Has Messier ever coached? I don't think bringing in a rookie coach is the best idea

Yeah, but it's MARK MESSIER! The Messiah! The savior! 1994!

 

[Mac n Gs]

Yeah, but it's MARK MESSIER! The Messiah! The savior! 1994!

Don't get me wrong, Messier and the rest of the 94 squad will be glorified in the annals of Rangers history forever, but it was 22 years ago.

They need to decide what type of team they want to be, whether it be a heavy, grinding team like the Kings and Blues, or continue to be a speed, skill team like Dallas or Pittsburgh.

Pick a coach that'll suit that style and move forward. We have a lot of good young pieces that can be a part of either style. Build around that. I don't think that a full rebuild is necessary, but we definitely need more structure and accountability.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

A lobster would coach better than AV at this point. I don't care who replaces him right now, first step is getting rid of this bum.

He and Hitchcock are being exposed for their antiquated views of the game. Both had/have incredibly talented teams and are doing less with more.