If Makar is the best defenseman since Orr, does that make Fox the best player since Gretzky?
Player Discussion Adam Fox
- Thread starter Krams
- Start date
If EK continues his pace I don't think the playoff race really matters.
A defenseman hasn't broken 100 points in 30 years. Fox either needs to close that gap considerably or EK needs to tail off. Plus theres a chance that he isn't even a Shark after the deadline as there is some trade interest in him.
- Jan 18, 2012
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he's going to slow down or get hurt imo
when was the last time he played this much hockey? 5 years? He'd need 82 games, or close to it to get to 100pts.
but yeah, if he continues this ridiculous pace, it's probably going to him.
At this rate it’s not impossible that fox finishes with around 100 either. He’s been fire for a while
Shesterkybomb
Registered User
- Dec 30, 2016
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I hope so, at the start of the year i took a proline out on Karlsson winning the Norris, can't remember what it pays but the odds were great...also took Shesty to win the Conn Smythe, its possible.
- Jan 18, 2012
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HockeyBasedNYC
Feeling it
Its hard to compare Makar and Fox.
Makar's skillset, skating and shot are superior to almost all defenders in the game, including Fox (and many forwards). He a pure player, similar to how McDavid is compared to forwards.
What sets Fox apart from everyone is his uniqueness. He isnt the biggest, nor fastest, best skater or shooter. Its not about that with him. Its all intelligence, deception, stickhandling skills and an awareness level that is off the charts.
He has all of the similarities of a transcendent, generational talent like Gretzky (and Orr) in that he changes what a hockey player is thought to be and no one can adjust to it. Although im not sure the game will ever seen someone who emulates Fox's game or compares to him in the same style when all is said and done.
Does that make him "better"? Maybe. It depends on how you define what excellence is at his position. For me, in life in general, there are artists and influential people throughout history that leave their mark and the ones that are remembered the most are the ones that have a true individuality that is unlike anything this earth has seen.
To me thats Fox, and its why he is the best.
Makar's skillset, skating and shot are superior to almost all defenders in the game, including Fox (and many forwards). He a pure player, similar to how McDavid is compared to forwards.
What sets Fox apart from everyone is his uniqueness. He isnt the biggest, nor fastest, best skater or shooter. Its not about that with him. Its all intelligence, deception, stickhandling skills and an awareness level that is off the charts.
He has all of the similarities of a transcendent, generational talent like Gretzky (and Orr) in that he changes what a hockey player is thought to be and no one can adjust to it. Although im not sure the game will ever seen someone who emulates Fox's game or compares to him in the same style when all is said and done.
Does that make him "better"? Maybe. It depends on how you define what excellence is at his position. For me, in life in general, there are artists and influential people throughout history that leave their mark and the ones that are remembered the most are the ones that have a true individuality that is unlike anything this earth has seen.
To me thats Fox, and its why he is the best.
The S5
Registered User
- Jul 27, 2017
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Fox's status is also hurt by the fact that we live in a highlight reel, low attention span world. People watch Makar use his skating ability to score a highlight reel goal and now, he's the greatest. It's far less exciting watching Fox use patience, deception and vision to outsmart everyone on the ice, including his own team mates.
I've always said that Fox should have 20-30 more points/year if his team mates could finish the dimes he drops on them.
Peltz
Registered User
- Oct 4, 2019
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It's way more satisfying to watch Fox night after night though because of how subtle his style is.
Not taking anything away from Makar. If Fox is Gretzky on defense, then Makar is McDavid on defense.
They're both superb and both teams are lucky to have their guy.
As great as Leetch was, I think you're right.
I hope he doesn't end up like Lundqvist though - the best in franchise history at his position but no cup.
HockeyBasedNYC
Feeling it
Agree. And its all the other little things he does, consistently on a nightly basis. Like batting pucks out of mid air and recovering on plays where he is seemingly beat, that most players would only do here and there.
ElLeetch
Registered User
- Mar 28, 2018
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I never thought i would see someone better than Leetch on the blueline in a rangers jersey, but we now most likely are.
I honestly didn't think we'd see someone as good as McDonagh for a long time
That Fox is better and Miller could be better is pretty amazing
- Jul 6, 2017
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Fox excels in the mental side of the game (anticipation especially). Makar excels in the physical side of them game. We’ve seen even unimpressive skaters (which Fox isn’t) still succeed because of their intelligence; we’ve seen fast and physical players dominate as well. Very different playing styles. It’s like comparing OV and Crosby — which, for some reason, people still continue to do.
Irishguy42
Mr. Preachy
When people talk about "playing chess while everyone else is playing checkers" they are talking about Adam Fox and the rest of the NHL (sans McDavid)
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Larrybiv
We're CLEAN, we PROMISE!
It's actually amazing to me that I never, or rarely ever have posted here in Fox's thread. Probably because no words can really express how amazing this man is and how I feel about him.
Anyone that knows me, knows that I'm usually not at a loss for words. So here I am, just wanted to throw in...... how blessed we are to have this man on our team. Thanks to God that he grew up a Rangers fan, I mean can you even imagine, if he had been inclined to sign with Carolina, and to a lesser extent Calgary?
Had he signed with Carolina we would have to be dealing with him on an already good team in Carolina within our division. Imagine him setting up Aho, Svechnikov, Teravainen, Staal and a few others that I really can't think of right now. Just think about that, let alone US not having him.
In finishing, I am not one to buy a lot of jerseys because of affordability factors, (not that I don't want to) but let's just say I went out and bought a Fox jersey, and there is no way in God's country that I will ever regret it.
We need to enjoy and appreciate every single moment, because careers seemingly end in the blink of an eye. I know, because that's the way I have felt many times over......last time being Hank.
Anyone that knows me, knows that I'm usually not at a loss for words. So here I am, just wanted to throw in...... how blessed we are to have this man on our team. Thanks to God that he grew up a Rangers fan, I mean can you even imagine, if he had been inclined to sign with Carolina, and to a lesser extent Calgary?
Had he signed with Carolina we would have to be dealing with him on an already good team in Carolina within our division. Imagine him setting up Aho, Svechnikov, Teravainen, Staal and a few others that I really can't think of right now. Just think about that, let alone US not having him.
In finishing, I am not one to buy a lot of jerseys because of affordability factors, (not that I don't want to) but let's just say I went out and bought a Fox jersey, and there is no way in God's country that I will ever regret it.
We need to enjoy and appreciate every single moment, because careers seemingly end in the blink of an eye. I know, because that's the way I have felt many times over......last time being Hank.
eco's bones
Registered User
FWIW Orr was the best skater in the NHL until a series of knee injuries pretty much ended his career. Gretzky's game is similar to Fox's in that it depended a lot on guile, stick skills and instinct and being able to see plays developing faster than pretty much anyone then to now. His skating was good but his IQ was off the charts. It also helped though that in Edmonton he was surrounded by all kinds of HOF talent. There were great players for him to play with in LA with STL and the Rangers but not quite the same as with Edmonton. Orr was very smart too but his skills particularly his skating were elite. He would blow by the opposition like McDavid now. It was a meaner league back then.....coaches would send out guys deliberately to f*** with him and FWIW Orr would drop the gloves and despite being average size he was a very good fighter. His team was pretty nasty too. Still the way opposing teams looked at it then the best way to stop him was to get him out of the game.
Today on Overdrive:
"What's down for Connor McDavid are his assists at 5 on 5. The conversion rate on his passes is way below the league average. So if he had Kane healthy or a good/average finisher on his line, at this point of the year he'd have at least 10 more points." - Mike Johnson
hackeyman
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- Jun 26, 2018
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Can EK win the Norris if he ends up with a negative plus minus. Has a defenceman ever done that ?
hackeyman
Registered User
- Jun 26, 2018
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I looked it up and there has never been a winner of the James Norris Trophy with a negative plus minus .
If he hits 100 points I don’t think it’ll matter.
Plus his team is horrendous and he plays a lot. Being a -3 on a team with a -30 goal differential is something that would probably play in his favor.
Vinh
Registered User
Fox is one of my favorite players to watch right now. His decision-making with the puck is ridiculously good. I'm not sure there's a smarter defenseman in the league.
If anyone's interested, I wrote an article about his performance so far. It contains footage from seven random games (not just goal highlights) and some underlying stats that illustrate how effective he's been. It can be tricky to explain Fox's hockey sense, so hopefully these clips get the point across.
As a Leafs fan who has to endure Morgan Rielly's presence, I'm incredibly jealous.
If anyone's interested, I wrote an article about his performance so far. It contains footage from seven random games (not just goal highlights) and some underlying stats that illustrate how effective he's been. It can be tricky to explain Fox's hockey sense, so hopefully these clips get the point across.
As a Leafs fan who has to endure Morgan Rielly's presence, I'm incredibly jealous.
KirkAlbuquerque
#WeNeverGetAGoodCoach
Fox will not have enough points to win the Norris thanks to the team as a whole being impotent offensively, even if he is a better player than the guys with more points.
Machinehead
HFNYR MVP
I have cards of Fox and several other top defensemen.
He's the best defenseman in the league.
Imagine being as mid as Miro Heiskanen. That's so sad.
Machinehead
HFNYR MVP
Our finishing with Fox on the ice is dog ass. He should have 80 points.
Raspewtin
Stay at home defenseman hater
- May 30, 2013
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