Player Discussion Adam Fox

[Levitate]

I love all of the pre-game/pre-series analyst saying Hamilton/Fox is a wash.

Um, no.

Yeah Hamilton is good...he transitions the puck well, he's good in the offensive zone, I think he's pretty good defending a general sense, but he in no way takes over shifts and games like Fox does

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Yeah Hamilton is good...he transitions the puck well, he's good in the offensive zone, I think he's pretty good defending a general sense, but he in no way takes over shifts and games like Fox does

Fox is tiers ahead of Hamilton, frankly.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I don't know if you can compare careers based on one Conn Smythe run but if it's close, you give the guy that has one the nod.

I can't see anybody beating out Leetch and it's not very close.

I think people just look at points or other stuff. As much as I like Fox he is not Brian Leetch.

 

[Rangerfan4life90]

I think people just look at points or other stuff. As much as I like Fox he is not Brian Leetch.

If Fox wins a cup and especially the Conn Smythe, that argument becomes a lot closer.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Coun

Counter argument is that Leetch wasn't nearly as good a defender as Fox.
Not making a case for either since both were/will be RAnger legends.

Leetch was a better defender in my eyes. Better motor. More physical. Both are smart. Leetch was also on for every PK and last minute of games because he was a good defender.

 

[Rangerfan4life90]

Leetch was a better defender in my eyes. Better motor. More physical. Both are smart. Leetch was also on for every PK and last minute of games because he was a good defender.

Eh, if Leetch was a better defender, it wasn't by a whole lot or much. Fox does all of those, except, I will say that Leetch was definitely a little more physical.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Eh, if Leetch was a better defender, it wasn't by a whole lot or much. Fox does all of those, except, I will say that Leetch was definitely a little more physical.

I do not think Fox has Leetch's motor in the defensive end. I see Fox use his head very well in the defensive end but not his skates as much. He uses his skates outside his own end.

 

[NickyFotiu]

With all due respect to Fox who is a great player I do not know what he does better than Leetch. Maybe his vision or smarts are better but that is not a an easy answer. Brian was faster, stronger, had a better slap shot and a better wrist shot. I think people forget Brian was playing around 30 minutes a game some years.

 

[haohmaru]

With all due respect to Fox who is a great player I do not know what he does better than Leetch. Maybe his vision or smarts are better but that is not a an easy answer. Brian was faster, stronger, had a better slap shot and a better wrist shot. I think people forget Brian was playing around 30 minutes a game some years.

Fox is better defensively and has better dekes/holds/stickhandling

I mean, to me, Leetch was better but Foxy has quite a few years ahead of him to change that.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

It would be interesting to see how Leetch would perform in todays NHL and vice versa with Fox.

I think Leetch would've excelled just as much, Fox may have been beaten up a little at his size in the 90's but would've totally washed some of the skaters back then with his intelligence.

Its hard to compare the two. Leetch was amazing at taking games over. Fox does that as well, but its in more of a subtle way.

The decision to cut to the slot with Lindgren moving down could've lead to a 2-0 the other way, but he saw the lane and took it and it was a game breaking type of play. Leetch wouldve cut in and scored himself.

Hard to compare the two but in the end we are looking at two American born HOF players who will likely be the best two defenseman in Rangers history with Howell and Park nearby

 

[NickyFotiu]

Fox is better defensively and has better dekes/holds/stickhandling

I mean, to me, Leetch was better but Foxy has quite a few years ahead of him to change that.

I respectfully disagree. Leetch was top 10 Dman of all time. Fox is not better defensively. To me that is not even a question. Brian was much tougher on the boards, in front of his net and he had a much higher motor in the defensive end. Igor would love having Leetch out there. Better dekes? Debatable. Better stickhandling? Debatable. The only thing I could say is maybe better vision and patience on the PP. Fox held the puck in the offensive zone once and it was a great play. That was the kind of play that Leetch was amazing at making routinely.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Fox is better defensively and has better dekes/holds/stickhandling

I mean, to me, Leetch was better but Foxy has quite a few years ahead of him to change that.

Yeah hes the better pure defender of the 2.

The one thing that puts Leetch (and probably keeps him there) ahead of Fox for me was the ability skate the puck up ice. In fact I don't know that there is anything in Fox's tool kit that I would take over Leetch from an offensive perspective outside of his brain. Fox will literally deke people while standing completely still. It's comical.

 

[bl02]

The kid/guy/whatever is really special. Already spoiled as a fan that when he gets the puck I can exhale because I know 99.9 times out of 100 he is gonna make the right play. I just am amazed how quickly he makes a decision but yet makes it look pedestrian because of his ability to slow play down and read it perfectly. It's unreal.

 

[romba]

From what I remember Leetch had the better shot, physicality, strength, and speed. Fox has the slight edge really only in poise, though Leetch had that in spades as well. Vision, passing, hands, agility and IQ are probably a wash.

Despite Leetch having a number of better tools and similar toolbox, poise really bumps up Fox's attributes and allows us to even have this conversation.

The difference imo in Laf from early this year to now is poise. Really makes a difference at the NHL level.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Yeah Hamilton is good...he transitions the puck well, he's good in the offensive zone, I think he's pretty good defending a general sense, but he in no way takes over shifts and games like Fox does

Hamilton also for a guy who's 6'6 avoids contact like he's 5'10. He's solid in the offensive zone and transition, but he's not good at handling offensive pressure and contact. He was invisible last night and thats been the knock on his game since calgary.

 

[GENESISPuck94]

Coun

Counter argument is that Leetch wasn't nearly as good a defender as Fox.
Not making a case for either since both were/will be RAnger legends.

Leetch was so underrated defensively. He was very good positionally and with his stick. He also laid hip checks like no one else.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Fox is better defensively and has better dekes/holds/stickhandling

I mean, to me, Leetch was better but Foxy has quite a few years ahead of him to change that.

Honestly, Leetch was obviously also a much more dynamic player. He could really dazzle. I think that is what really wins over a lot of people. Almost sort of the Makar vs. Fox thing in a way with how flashy Makar is.

With that said, Leetch is most definitely better than Makar, lol. Not trying to compare the two, there.

Leetch was so underrated defensively. He was very good positionally and with his stick. He also laid hip checks like no one else.

Fox is on another level with his stick play in my view. This is not taking away anything from Leetch defensively (and I agree that he was very underrated defensively). What that man can do with the stick when the puck is anywhere near him is nothing short of incredible. Some of the best hand-eye coordination I have ever seen in the NHL. Maybe the best.

 

[Harbour Dog]

It's really interesting to see people try to put words to Fox's strength. We have all these labels for players. They're fast, they're big, they're strong, they've got a cannon, they've got filthy mitts, etc.

But Fox, arguably the best defensemen in the league, doesn't really line up with any of those things. He's not some freak athlete, or big nasty human being, or speed demon; he's a f***ing genius who processes the game as fast as Gretzky.

I think that that actually hurts him a little in this debate, because it's so easy to point to what Leetch does to dominate, but Fox just quietly goes about making the game look simple.

 

[GENESISPuck94]

Honestly, Leetch was obviously also a much more dynamic player. He could really dazzle. I think that is what really wins over a lot of people. Almost sort of the Makar vs. Fox thing in a way with how flashy Makar is.

With that said, Leetch is most definitely better than Makar, lol. Not trying to compare the two, there.


Fox is on another level with his stick play in my view. This is not taking away anything from Leetch defensively (and I agree that he was very underrated defensively). What that man can do with the stick when the puck is anywhere near him is nothing short of incredible. Some of the best hand-eye coordination I have ever seen in the NHL. Maybe the best.

Leetch is one of best players of all time, not just Rangers. Fox is nowhere near what Leetch was. I love Fox and he is the best D we've had since Leetch and maybe my favorite current player in the league, but that doesn't make him anywhere close to Leetch. By the same age Leetch had over 100 points more in his career. By the age of 24 (Fox) Leetch scored 100 pts in a season, had two 80 pt seasons, and a 70 pt season. 5 seasons Leetch was at or over point per game. Fox hasn't done it once, in an era without two line passing, no hooking, and slashing, no suffocating neutral zone traps. Leetch had to do all he did against the greatest generation of hockey players but simultaneously the most suffocating defensive schemes in the history of the sport that literally needed restructuring of the ice surface markings and rules to eliminate. He also had to carry awful non playoff teams on his back the second half of his career until he was traded. No offense but how old are you? If you haven't seen both their careers, even if you have, I don't think you can say with a straight face that Fox is anything close to what Leetch was. No defenseman currently in the league is. Also, Leetch scored 34 points in the 94 playoffs. No defenseman since has passed him.

 

[The S5]

With all due respect to Fox who is a great player I do not know what he does better than Leetch. Maybe his vision or smarts are better but that is not a an easy answer. Brian was faster, stronger, had a better slap shot and a better wrist shot. I think people forget Brian was playing around 30 minutes a game some years.

Leetch was not as good a defender as Fox. Fox makes subtle plays that look easy but they aren't.
Yes, physically, Leetch was more impressive, but Fox's hockey sense is off the charts.
They will go down as the best Ranger D of all time.

 

[The S5]

Leetch is one of best players of all time, not just Rangers. Fox is nowhere near what Leetch was. I love Fox and he is the best D we've had since Leetch and maybe my favorite current player in the league, but that doesn't make him anywhere close to Leetch. By the same age Leetch had over 100 points more in his career. By the age of 24 (Fox) Leetch scored 100 pts in a season, had two 80 pt seasons, and a 70 pt season. 5 seasons Leetch was at or over point per game. Fox hasn't done it once, in an era without two line passing, no hooking, and slashing, no suffocating neutral zone traps. Leetch had to do all he did against the greatest generation of hockey players but simultaneously the most suffocating defensive schemes in the history of the sport that literally needed restructuring of the ice surface markings and rules to eliminate. He also had to carry awful non playoff teams on his back the second half of his career until he was traded. No offense but how old are you? If you haven't seen both their careers, even if you have, I don't think you can say with a straight face that Fox is anything close to what Leetch was. No defenseman currently in the league is. Also, Leetch scored 34 points in the 94 playoffs. No defenseman since has passed him.

I think you are short changing Fox. If he falls off of a cliff over the next 5 years, then I get it, but since his game doesn't rely on physical traits, I doubt he will.
If Fox can win a Cup with the Rangers, he will automatically be launched to a higher level in fans eyes.
I love both of them. Rangers are lucky to have/had them both.

 

[Levitate]

I mean, cherry picking stats here a bit but

 

[Kane One]

I mean, cherry picking stats here a bit but

Not really. Fox only played 24 playoff games.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Leetch was not as good a defender as Fox. Fox makes subtle plays that look easy but they aren't.
Yes, physically, Leetch was more impressive, but Fox's hockey sense is off the charts.
They will go down as the best Ranger D of all time.

I respectfully disagree. I think you are undervaluing Brian as a defender. Fox is a very smart player but often he tries to think the game on defense instead of moving his legs. Leetch was a top 10 Dman ever in my opinion. While I have a lot of respect for Fox he is not Brian Leetch.

 

[Levitate]

Not really. Fox only played 24 playoff games.

Yeah just saying it's also entirely possible to play a long career with a lot of playoff games and have your average come down because of it as you age or have down years etc

Dunno if that really matters though