Are we back to using the +/- here? Really?
Nothing could be further from truth. Hardly anyone points to that stat as evidence of good or poor play.
Just out of curiosity, what is the torch and pitchfork crowd when it comes to DeAngelo?
Player Discussion Adam Fox
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Just out of curiosity, what is the torch and pitchfork crowd when it comes to DeAngelo?
offdacrossbar
misfit fanboy
oh come on. if ADA were packing a +/- like kakko there would be calls for his head.
notice i also mentioned his points total in addition to +/-
plus minus isnt used for anything of substance. its just alot better to be plus than minus. nothing more.
that crowd is whomever was calling tony a bum last season when quinn was going through his controlling, over reacting, healthy scratch to teach a lesson phase while playing pionk, staal and holden non stop while some how looking the other way on those 3 when it came to production and on ice results.
many here were calling for a trade, release or simple cap dump move. he was toxic. remember ?
not getting back into this with you just know that if tony had a -13 or whatever, there would be a vocal group here that would demand benching, a trade, or a very public stoning.
the narrative that he cant play defense and is a liability on the ice is real
and yet, quinn was trying to sell us on the importance of a marc staal return
Yes, people would be killing him if it were bad. That's one of the worst things about it--everyone knows it sucks, yet it's usually only when someone has a number that is very high or very low is it cited. It's one of those things, people generally only use it to fit a narrative.
I really only care about +/- if a guy is an outlier on a team. And then you say, what is driving this? Is it good/bad luck? Is he really that good/bad? Etc.
I see very few people using +/- that way nowadays.
No one was doing that. People were discussing and pondering what he was doing.
No, I really don't
No offense, but I think that narrative is yours. His defensive play has not been even at a solid level overall. And you know perfectly well and have said so yourself that he cannot be trusted to be on the ice when on PK, defensive draw or when protecting a lead at end of a game.
How did Staal suddenly work his way into this conversation?
tbh I'm a DeAngelo fan and I think his defensive work has been a bit shoddy this year. He moves the puck up on the attack well and that's always going to be a strength of his but I think he's been caught chasing the puck a lot in the defensive zone and getting out of position. He doesn't have to be this great all around player who can do it all in every situation but I think there's stuff he can clean up.
I don't think we need to invent arguments about the situation though...even if he's never particularly "good" defensively he is a great asset if he can put up 60+ points.
I don't think we need to invent arguments about the situation though...even if he's never particularly "good" defensively he is a great asset if he can put up 60+ points.
You can assert that. I think Makar has Neidermayer potential plus more offense.
Fox I see as Brian Rafalski.
Rempe73
RIP King of Pop
I've been thinking about the comparison with Rafalski too--but one big difference is that Rafalski spent 4 years at Univ of Wisc and then 4 years playing mostly in Finland before he made his NHL debut. He certainly had a very good career and racked up a lot of points, but it will be interesting to see how Fox develops and compares after 3-4 years in the NHL since he has a 5-6 year head start over Rafalski.
Amazing Kreiderman
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Are we looking at a comparison based on style of what we expect from Fox in terms of a career?
Style certainly. Rafalski had a great career--but he came into the NHL much later age wise than Fox. I think everyone would be thrilled if Fox started putting up the numbers that Rafalski did during his career. Can Fox do better? We'll have to wait and see.
Amazing Kreiderman
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But if we are comparing Fox to Rafalski style-wise does it really matter when they came into the league?
I think Nils Lundkvist is similar in style to Tomáš Kaberle but that doesn't mean I expect him to be as good as Kaberle.
Perhaps I see more than just the style comparison. Rafalski had professional experience, while Fox does not. Makes it hard to be sure where Fox ends up, but he looks pretty good for a 21 year old who is part of the youngest team in hockey.
Amazing Kreiderman
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I can see the Rafalski comparison. He's definitely not in the same league as Makar or Hughes offensively, but those two are probably the best offensive D to emerge since Karlsson and will probably go on to have HOF or borderline HOF careers
Some damn tough competition for him this year
Some damn tough competition for him this year
If Adam Fox becomes a Brian Rafalski, that's still a major home run. That wouldn't really be that far down below Makar/Hughes.
In points of production, sure. Rafalski was quite a bit more pugnacious.
Brooklyn Rangers Fan
Change is good.
maddux threw pretty hard in his prime, especially for his era.
but development isn’t linear as we all know. Fox got off to a slow start but he’s been really productive over the last 20 or so.
16 in his last 22
Keep in mind both Makar and Hughes played a few games last season and had a better idea of the pace at this level before coming into the season
Hunter Gathers
The Crown
Eh, not really. Rafalski eclipsed 35 PIMs once in his entire career. And he had 36 PIMs that year. Rafalski wouldn't back down, but he wasn't exactly ever starting anything, either.
ElLeetch
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- Mar 28, 2018
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some good company, for sure. Already showing he was well worth the two 2nds.
Nucks have been doing that it seems with most of the kids out of college and will prolly do it this season with Rathbone and Madden. It gives the kids the summer to make changes to parts of their game. Hughes for example said the biggest thing he learned was his shot needed work along with his fitness. Some complain due to burning a year of the elc but I womder if it will become a trend? Seems to have worked for Q, Brock and Makar, as well as others.
Brooklyn Rangers Fan
Change is good.
Nah, not during his most dominant years – not his last few years with the Cubs, and not during his Braves years. Or at least, that's not how I remember it.
Sat 91-94. It doesn't seem like it's that high since everyone throws 95+ now, but that was a + velocity fastball back then.
His control and movement are what made him, which I agree with.
Considering what’s going on with our first pick in 2017 and 2018 he would have been well worth even a first to late first rounder
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