Confirmed with Link: Adam Fox for 2019 2nd (NYR), 2020 3rd (cond.)

[FJB]

Trouba will cost Kreider + 1st + who knows what else. This team needs more offensive threats so it would probably be better to go after Panarin and have him AND Kreider. It's a shame that Shatty is so terrible and Smith wastes so much cap space.

 

[TheTakedown]

And on that note, who says Lundqvist can't play till he's 42 and make another couple Cup runs with our re-loaded juggernaut???

Yeah man, I'm with you there. Shesty comes in and knocks the f***ing socks off, we run a tandem of Shesty and Hank, Georgiev gets traded for a 1st and a 2nd.'

Thomas was 36 when he won his cup, and played till he was 39. Hank is twice the athlete Thomas is

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Trouba will cost Kreider + 1st + who knows what else. This team needs more offensive threats so it would probably be better to go after Panarin and have him AND Kreider. It's a shame that Shatty is so terrible and Smith wastes so much cap space.

Why will trouba cost that much?

He's a year away from UFA just like Kreider.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

I think now is the time to be aggressive on Trouba. You have picks you have prospects you have some young nhl roster Players that are movable in Vesey Pionk Namestnikov Anderson. And even a guy like Fast might be attractive to a playoff team.

Go get the guy like you did with Fox.

Lol, yea because i'm sure the Jets will be banging down the door wanting any of them for a top pair defenseman. It starts with Kreider. And now that we have Fox/Ada on the right i dont have much of an interest to trade away everyone for Trouba.

 

[GAGLine]

Trouba will cost Kreider + 1st + who knows what else. This team needs more offensive threats so it would probably be better to go after Panarin and have him AND Kreider. It's a shame that Shatty is so terrible and Smith wastes so much cap space.

Trouba wouldn't cost that much. Kreider for Trouba is pretty close. Both essentially have 1 year left and they are only 3 years apart in age. The problem would be that Winnipeg probably has no interest in Kreider.

 

[TheTakedown]

I think now is the time to be aggressive on Trouba. You have picks you have prospects you have some young nhl roster Players that are movable in Vesey Pionk Namestnikov Anderson. And even a guy like Fast might be attractive to a playoff team.

Go get the guy like you did with Fox.

Depends what Chevy wants. If he does not want to resign in winnipeg, then Trouba holds all the leverage, but Peg also has the option of playing out his final year--it'll come down to whatever amount teams value that extra year of team time and negotiation time for Trouba. Someone would have to set the market... My guess is Chevy already set the market and the ask is something like a 1st and a young roster player, which is clearly outrageous and they would never get that, but that's probably what Peg values him as and therefore they will compare the return to them using him as a self rental

 

[Kovalev27]

Lol, yea because i'm sure the Jets will be banging down the door wanting any of them for a top pair defenseman. It starts with Kreider. And now that we have Fox/Ada on the right i dont have much of an interest to trade away everyone for Trouba.

oh weird did my post say that was the straight up offer or a single part of a larger offer. cause I typed out all this other stuff including a top 20 pick but you must not have seen that or you wouldn't have posted that reply right?

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Quinn is going to LOVE this kid. Every coach has it's favorites and for Quinn it's NCAA guys, he'll get his ice time for sure.

As I said before I talked to two coaches that had Fox and they both raved about him being the smartest player they ever coached. He's got elite level IQ, whether that translates into him being an all star NHL'er is anyone's guess but he has the tools to do it.

 

[Kovalev27]

Winnipeg isn't going to ask for kreider for trouba knowing full well kreider is not staying in Winnipeg. that's not realistic at all. they will want young controllable players.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Just a question, I don't know the answer to it but what was our percentage of wins before the trade deadline and what was it afterwards?

 

[Kovalev27]

The Rangers are going to bring Kakko Fox Kravtsov Shesterkin into the organization. If they bring in panarin and a trouba they are making the playoffs. that's a lot ALOT of talent added to a young group that is going to get bigger stronger faster over the summer. (mika buchnevich chytil howden DeAngelo Skjei Lemieux Strome) is a lot of depth. more so than a lot of other teams.

 

[mas0764]

Well notice that I said Zucc and Hayes? Not to mention Hayes was a center and leaves a big hole in the lineup.

I think Kakko could come in and have a good year, Zibanejad, Buch, and Kreider all have good years, Chytil, Howden, Andersson all take steps forward, and this team STILL not be very good. The defense is still a mess and Lundqvist is over the hill (as much as I love him) and isn't going to bail the team out anymore.

The margin between bottom five and bottom 10 isn't that much so they could be anywhere in there I think.

It's possible they could be better, sometimes a big run during the year is all it takes, but it's also possible they're quite bad overall again.

I am positive this team is not going to be "very good"; but I don't know if they will be worse than last year. I think they could be better than the 6th worst team when all is said and done. I think there's a relatively good chance of it, actually.

The other thing I think is not quite being taken into account is.... this team has added in the last, oh, 24 months, an unprecedented amount of "elite/top-6 forward/top-4 defense" talent and even a starting future goaltender to the mix. More talent quicker than we have witnessed as Rangers fans in.... well, possibly ever. Certainly in my lifetime of following the Rangers, and I started when I was 11 in 1994 when they won the Cup, I haven't seen anything like this since then. We haven't even seen a true tear-down, let alone what appears to be such an effective build-back-up.

I am not sure we are taking into account how good this team is going to get and how quickly it's gonna happen. I am not sure we are willing to let ourselves believe how good this team could be in another 24 months. I think saying we could be like this year's Hurricanes or Islanders is selling us way short. I think we are gonna be more like the Maple Leafs. Except with defense. Or the Lightning. I mean we could have 3-4 players under 25 who are capable of 60-70 point seasons, or more.

 

[mas0764]

I don't know what you mean by bottoming out either. Do you really think we're going to be worse next year than we were this year? The coach knowing his team now--first and second year players getting improving--because at least some if not most will. Kakko coming in. Kravtsov and Shestyorkin coming in. The fact that we were close in most of our games this year--the team is almost certainly going to improve some even without going outside the organization. This bottoming out idea doesn't seem at all realistic to me---not unless we get hit by tons of injuries anyway. It's not bottoming out that's more likely to happen from just standing pat--we're more likely to be in the mediocre 9 to 11 range as far as next year's draft order.

And by the way if you're looking for forwards on next year's UFA market--New Jersey is almost certainly going all out to re-sign Taylor Hall--and after a 32 year old Nicklas Backstrom it's going to get thinner. Getting Panarin this year is getting in front of a problem--not waiting for it to come your way.

Bingo.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

oh weird did my post say that was the straight up offer or a single part of a larger offer. cause I typed out all this other stuff including a top 20 pick but you must not have seen that or you wouldn't have posted that reply right?

Cant keep up with all the posts in this thread. I was just going by that post, i didnt see a 1st along with your offer in it.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Winnipeg isn't going to ask for kreider for trouba knowing full well kreider is not staying in Winnipeg. that's not realistic at all. they will want young controllable players.

Even more a reason not to trade for him. We are rebuilding, we need those players.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Why is that? Trouba aligns well with zibanejad. If trouba can be acquired then u have your 1st pair right d and 1st line center signed throughout their primes.

@Gardner McKay

Meant to quote u

No worries.

I am not sure how Trouba aligns well with Zibanejad for starters (or what it actually means). We traded for Mika when he was 23 and was perceived as not living up to expectations. That is why we got him for such a great price. Cheveldayoff and Winnipeg are not Murray and Ottawa. Murray was an alright GM (RIP) who made a bad deal to appease a cheap owner. Cheveldayoff is a stubborn ****. Again, not sure where you were going with this so if I am way off base, I apologize.

To answer your other question, Why? Because... Despite the fact that Winnipeg desperately needs cap room, the price for Trouba is going to be astronomical. He is coming off a career year. Prior to this year he was a 32 point defenseman. He has played more than 65 games twice in six years. Asset wise, his cost will be closer to a 50 point defenseman than a 32 point defenseman. When Cheveldayoff sets his price as our 1st next year, plus K'Andre Miller or Nils Lundkvist, plus more, I can't say I think it would be a good idea to give up our top defensive prospect plus a top 10 pick and then a bit more for a guy who comes with durability concerns.

Anyone who thinks the price would be less than that is kidding themselves. Look at what Duchene got. Cheveldayoff is even more stubborn than Sakic.

 

[Gardner McKay]

how so?

trouba is mika's age and we have no one like him in the system on the right side. and Gorts specifically said he would target good young nhl players as well as prospects not just picks. so doesn't go against what he said in the slightest

Yeah, like Adam Fox. Not Trouba, who will come with a major contract and cost major assets.

 

[True Blue]

I don't know what you mean by bottoming out either. Do you really think we're going to be worse next year than we were this year? The coach knowing his team now--first and second year players getting improving--because at least some if not most will. Kakko coming in. Kravtsov and Shestyorkin coming in. The fact that we were close in most of our games this year--the team is almost certainly going to improve some even without going outside the organization. This bottoming out idea doesn't seem at all realistic to me---not unless we get hit by tons of injuries anyway. It's not bottoming out that's more likely to happen from just standing pat--we're more likely to be in the mediocre 9 to 11 range as far as next year's draft order.

I do think so. While I hope that Kakko makes an impact, I am not counting on 50 points. I have no idea of what Kravstov will be, but again, first year in NA I am not expecting an elite performance as a rookie. We have no idea of Shestyorkin. I cannot see the production of Hayes being easily replaced. Nor a rejuvenated Zucc for that matter. And if Kreider is traded, not his. I admire the job that Quinn has done and would expect the 2nd year players to take steps forward, but believe that we should be realistic about the size of the steps. And not every one takes steps forward all the times. What if some regress?

And by the way if you're looking for forwards on next year's UFA market--New Jersey is almost certainly going all out to re-sign Taylor Hall--and after a 32 year old Nicklas Backstrom it's going to get thinner. Getting Panarin this year is getting in front of a problem--not waiting for it to come your way.

I am not looking at the UFA market. I want to see what is under the hood first and get an idea of what the core is going forward before I add a UFA to it. The last thing that I want to do is to hand cuff a team to a contract where the team's better days will coincide with the players worse days.

 

[Zibanejbread]

 

[TheTakedown]

Can this scenario please go away? Making a deal for Trouba (especially after the deal yesterday for Fox), would go against everything JG has done and said he is going to do.

Going after Trouva would be EXACTLY what JG has said he was going to do.

Accelerate the rebuild. This team does not have a #1D, Miller is the closest and he's 1-2 years away, and most likely not a top pairing step in.

 

[Kovalev27]

Cant keep up with all the posts in this thread. I was just going by that post, i didnt see a 1st along with your offer in it.

I had the Winnipeg pick plus one of Vesey/namestnikov/pionk plus a B prospect OR Andersson one of Vesey/namestnikov/pionk and a B prospect as a suitable offer.

 

[TheTakedown]

and knowing I'm getting kakko, I'd be fine giving Winnipeg back their first round pick, one of Namestnikov/Vesey/Pionk and a B prospect. maybe lindgren or gropp or a ragnarsson.

or they can have andersson instead of the first rounder plus the rest.

Andersson for Trouba + 2nd.

That's abpout the only one of those scenarios that would realistically work. Peg needs cost controlled assetrs

 

[Kovalev27]

Yeah, like Adam Fox. Not Trouba, who will come with a major contract and cost major assets.

adam fox is an nhl ready prospect. which he said he would go after. he also said he'd be going after young nhl players thru trades if they made sense. trouba makes a lot of sense.

 

[True Blue]

Obviously we have no idea what else the team is going to do in free agency, the draft, etc this year, besides the obvious (Kakko).

But I would say depending on what they do, they could get back to a bubble playoff team faster than you appear to be assuming.

We frankly look for certain things from Kakko, but cannot count on them. What is his first few years look like Barkov's?

If we take the team we had for the majority of 2018-19, which was not a playoff team, but was more like 8th-to-10th worst, for the 2019-20 season you are subtracting the following:

- Hayes
- Zuccarello
- Kreider (potentially)
- Fred Claesson (probably)

And you are adding impacts from:

+ Kaapo Kakko (probably)
+ Brendan Lemieux (full season)
+ Artemi Panarin (potentially)
+ Adam Fox (probably at least 30 games)
+ Libor Hajek
(Anything you get from Shestyorkin and Kravtsov is probably negligible as they probably both are still developing and may be in the minors or backing up most of the season).

If you are counting on Kakko replacing the production of Hayes, you may well be setting yourself up for disappointment. The odds are against it. Panarin is NOT here and solid chances that he WILL NOT be here. And if he is, he now has to play with less of a supporting cast. Fox, Hajek? Can they get in 10 games of NHL experience before we state that you getting an impact from them? Love Lemieux, and he could well be a force in the middle two lines, but if he nets 20 goals next year, I will jump for joy.

And you are probably getting measurable if not outright substantial improvement from:

Chytil
Andersson
Howden
DeAngelo

I mean, I just don't think you can get much worse from Shattenkirk and Smith. Staal was more steady last year than he has been in a while, so he could see a downswing, but I think that's made up for by other players.

Sorry, hate to be Debbie Downer here, but while we all hope that Chytil, Andersson & Howden take steps forward, they are just as likely as not to. But let's say that they do, what is "substantial" impact? I would say that the odds of 45-50 goals between the three of them is not great. Which does not mean that they will not improve. But you need to remember how young they are.

And frankly, if the team is better, I think Henrik is better.

Henke's abilities decline with age. He is a year older. For him to be better, the defense would need to be materially better. And while Staal, Smith and Shattenkirk are taking regular shifts, the odds are against that.

So I think, personally, this team, if you add Panarin, even if you subtract Kreider, is probably better than last year.

I think you are describing a lottery team for all of the reasons that I outline.

Look, it's not like I do not want them to do great, but it seems you are counting on playing several hands of cards and getting 4 aces in each one. Just not realistic. Embrace the suck for one more year. The turnaround commences in 2020-2021.

 

[Kovalev27]

Even more a reason not to trade for him. We are rebuilding, we need those players.

yes but you can't expect them all to play for you when you draft and bring in as many as we have and will continue to over this next draft. some of them have to be used for trades. you aren't going to field a team of guys all within 2 years of age of each other. need different age groups to win.