Confirmed with Link: Adam Fox for 2019 2nd (NYR), 2020 3rd (cond.)

[Tawnos]

I mean, LeBrun literally said they had only one team to deal with - the Rangers. That pretty much makes all other offers irrelevant. And, if LeBrun knew that we were the only team Fox would sign with, I bet other GM's knew as well. Regardless of serious offers, we held all the cards. Either you wait and lose a year of development with Fox but get him for free, or you trade for him now.

Eh, I didn’t read that tweet as Waddell and Dundon told him that he only wanted the Rangers. It’s almost two parts. The first that the 2 execs tried to convince him to sign and the second was Lebrun using the same logic we’ve been seeing around here.

I could be wrong of course, but the whole idea that they paid more than they could have just doesn’t really make a lot of sense. Like I said earlier, it’s been a month since Dundon said they would trade him. Carolina was under no urgency to move him. They could have waited another almost 2 months and still gotten a pick for this year’s draft and even then, they’d have a whole year to deal him and still get something from the 2020 draft. Even if the Rangers were the only team making offers, which I still doubt, the idea that they held all the leverage is way off base.

 

[frozenrubber]

I mean, LeBrun literally said they had only one team to deal with - the Rangers. That pretty much makes all other offers irrelevant. And, if LeBrun knew that we were the only team Fox would sign with, I bet other GM's knew as well. Regardless of serious offers, we held all the cards. Either you wait and lose a year of development with Fox but get him for free, or you trade for him now.

1) Not wanting to sign with CAL/CAR doesn't mean he'd like to waste an unpaid year at Harvard. If he only had to wait until this August, obviously no trade. If Adam Fox's choice was risking his future livelihood in playing another unpaid year at Harvard to sign w/ the Rangers who couldn't make an offer for another year, an option from another intriguing market would of most certainly been reviewed. If the Blackhawks, Islanders, Boston, etc made a pitch and it was that or going back to school for a year, his camp would mostly take the deal

2) In development, it's good to let a player dominate at a level before moving up. For Fox's development curve, it's best to take him now instead of let him stagnate/injure himself playing a pointless year in the NCAA.

 

[mas0764]

It's not a weak draft. Quite the opposite when you consider the center depth.

All those centers and forwards mean that several of the best U18 defensemen in the world will be pushed down to the 2nd and 3rd round, but they have multiple picks so they could afford to trade one.

Very good trade but obviously would have rolled the dice and kept the picks.

Love Fox -- had him ranked in the 1st in 2016 -- but hate the fact that Gorton keeps trading high 2nd rounders. He either felt Lou would have taken him to the woodshed in post-NCAA negotiations, or he doesn't think highly of such high picks.

Or maybe he thinks Fox will step right in and make the Rangers better. If you watched him long enough, you'd know that he's not that good defensively. I mean Pionk-level type of own-end defense. The smarts and the puck skills are excellent, but trading for him (at such a high price) makes me think he will be a Ranger next year, in addition to Kakko, Kravtsov, Shestyorkin and maybe even Panarin. Maybe EK? Who knows.

Either way, he automatically becomes the Rangers' best defense prospect and future PPQB.

He’s Pionk level bad at defense, but he’s automatically our best defensive prospect? Seems like one of those two statements simply must be hyperbole. If Fox has serious flaws actually playing defense, I’d think at least Miller is a better prospect.

 

[kovazub94]

Need to stop bashing Pionk. He was a 23 year old rookie defenseman. They normally take longer to develop, and he's always been a late bloomer. Pionk will be significantly better in 2 years (2020-21). Let's be patient.

Even if so, the main problem is that he’s the same type but lesser quality compared to ADA, now Fox and eventually Lundkvist (and of course Shattenkirk). Need at least one bigger body and so there’s simply no place for him (and Shattenkirk).

 

[mas0764]

Something to keep in mind - I suspect the Rangers desire to get back into the top 10 was a product of guys they liked in that range, who they spent extensive amounts of time scouting.

If some of those guys should slide a little, be it Zegras, Dach, Newhook, whoever, I think the Rangers would love to not have to get into the top 10 to haul one of them in.

Having said that, I don't think a team trades out of a high pick without getting a pick in a similar range. That's why I keep coming back to a Kreider deal being the linchpin.

Kreider and Pionk might get you 14 and a prospect. And then you could potentially make a move from 14.

But I don't think all the picks and Pionk gets you there.

Generally speaking, teams picking higher would want multiple picks, with one of those picks being not too far removed from their original position. Teams picking lower would generally want ready-to-run help that can get them over the hump. Bridging that gap would probably require a two-move approach.

Given that our best prospects are wingers (Kakko, Kravstov, maybe Chytil/Andersson, etc), I’m more than fine moving a winger in Kreider for a top-6 center prospect in Zegras or Newhook.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

He’s Pionk level bad at defense, but he’s automatically our best defensive prospect? Seems like one of those two statements simply must be hyperbole. If Fox has serious flaws actually playing defense, I’d think at least Miller is a better prospect.

He isn't Pionk level bad at D.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

I have a feeling the contract is signed and done but the Ranger's want to announce all 3 signings tomorrow at once (Krav and Shest too)

 

[JT Kreider]

Sweet

 

[New York RKY]

Is it safe to say we will shortly have the best prospect pool in the NHL? Lol

 

[cheech70]

An interesting point raised on the 'Canes board, BTW (where I lurked, but did not comment out of respect). Since hockey is a small world, Gorton may not have wanted to screw Waddell to the wall as hard as he possibly could in such a situation where the player is already holding the team over a barrel.

Keep relations good till Gorts trades Kreider to the Canes then he'll screw them

 

[cheech70]

Little history lesson for the 2nd/3rd rounders traded in the last few years:

Tim Erixon: Tyler Wotherspoon (wut), Markus Granlund (pillow soft bottom sixer)
Ryan Clowe: Gabryel Boudreau (wut), Yan-Pavel Laplante (wut)
Eric Staal: Artur Kayumov (???), Aleksi Saarela (can't manage a callup for Carolina in 3 years)
Brendan Smith: Zachary Gallant (????), Jonatan Berggren (3 points in 26 games in SEL)

BuT mUh AsSeTs

Nice work

 

[Irishguy42]

I'm not saying he'll be a superstar, but I think there's a reasonable possibility of him being a 3RD. I wouldn't throw him away just yet. I can see if we get value for him, but why throw him away after just his rookie season? If hes bad, who cares, next season is a season for building and testing kids, not racking up points.

Uhm...

Need to stop bashing Pionk. He was a 23 year old rookie defenseman. They normally take longer to develop, and he's always been a late bloomer. Pionk will be significantly better in 2 years (2020-21). Let's be patient.

If Pionk being "significantly better in 2 years" than his current state result in him only being a bottom pairing defenseman, then that proves he's garbage now and there is no point in waiting two years for a bottom pairing D.

He hasn't shown he is good at anything, really.

Why wait two years on a "reasonable possibility" of becoming a replacement level player when you can just get an actual replacement level player now in someone else, and probably cheaper to boot.

 

[offdacrossbar]

adam fox was not signed for him to be scott stevens.

hes a 4th forward playing defense. hes smart and he drives possession from the blue line.

if any of you have watched him this year with harvard, he was the offense. fox can transport the puck and exit the zone with speed. hes a very good puck mover and very good on the pp. hes calm and confident.

cale makar is doing it in colo. im not saying fox is makar but hes in that mold. offensive play driver from the blue line.

having ADA and fox on the right side of this defense is legit. those 2 guys are gifted modern nhl dmen.

 

[mas0764]

So can we now trade Shattenkirk please?

I must be alone on this, but I don’t really want to move Shattenkirk. I’d much rather move Staal or Smith if we are moving albatross Dmen.

Shattenkirk gave up money to come here because he loved the Rangers. We are a destination that players want to come to, it’s an edge for us in player acquisition. And as soon as he came, we changed courses and decided to tear it down.

No one’s fault, but part of me feels like we owe it to Shattenkirk to let him at least stay for a playoff run.

 

[Cassano]

Too much for a player that was going to sign here anyways. Pissing away assets.

 

[Tawnos]

I must be alone on this, but I don’t really want to move Shattenkirk. I’d much rather move Staal or Smith if we are moving albatross Dmen.

Shattenkirk gave up money to come here because he loved the Rangers. We are a destination that players want to come to, it’s an edge for us in player acquisition. And as soon as he came, we changed courses and decided to tear it down.

No one’s fault, but part of me feels like we owe it to Shattenkirk to let him at least stay for a playoff run.

I don’t think he’s going to play in a single playoff game for the Rangers, whether he stays or not.

 

[chosen]

His dad used to be in a hockey fantasy league with me.

 

[Calad]

I must be alone on this, but I don’t really want to move Shattenkirk. I’d much rather move Staal or Smith if we are moving albatross Dmen.

Shattenkirk gave up money to come here because he loved the Rangers. We are a destination that players want to come to, it’s an edge for us in player acquisition. And as soon as he came, we changed courses and decided to tear it down.

No one’s fault, but part of me feels like we owe it to Shattenkirk to let him at least stay for a playoff run.

If he wants a playoff run with his current contract, it won't be in NY. Playoffs next year is a pipe dream. We are going to be worse than last year.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Too much for a player that was going to sign here anyways. Pissing away assets.

Eh, the Rangers have so many picks that it’s a drop in the bucket to get a really good prospect in the system and to let him get his transition into an NHL player rolling a year earlier

 

[Cassano]

Eh, the Rangers have so many picks that it’s a drop in the bucket to get a really good prospect in the system and to let him get his transition into an NHL player rolling a year earlier

Yes, and good players can be picked up with 2nd and 3rd round picks.

 

[Tawnos]

Yes, and good players can be picked up with 2nd and 3rd round picks.

They’re not likely as good as Fox.

 

[Good Intentions]

Nice work

I enjoyed that 'history lesson' from effen as well.

And I'm really glad you mentioned SAARELA - whom several miserable pessimists were jumping through elevator shafts about. A good reminder to let things play out. 18 months ago, I would have thought we had given away the next Jere Lehtinen, and instead he's probably the next Lias Andersson

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Yes, and good players can be picked up with 2nd and 3rd round picks.

I kind of look at it like trading 2 lottery tickets with 1 in 500 odds for 1 lottery ticket with 1 in 50 odds

 

[Cassano]

They’re not likely as good as Fox.

You're right, but it still doesn't make sense making this trade knowing he's going to sign here anyways. They just gave away picks for nothing.

It's not like the Erixon situation where we didn't know where he was signing.

 

[Lays]

He’s Pionk level bad at defense, but he’s automatically our best defensive prospect? Seems like one of those two statements simply must be hyperbole. If Fox has serious flaws actually playing defense, I’d think at least Miller is a better prospect.

Fox is good defensively. He’ll struggle defensively next year and might as well the following year after due to his skating but he’ll eventually come around. Pionk and Fox don’t play defense similarly and he’s not Pionk-level defensively.