Speculation: Acq/ Rost. Bldg./ Cap Part XXIX

[CapitalsCupReality]

True.

I think we should trade Kuznetsov and Burakovsky while their value is high as well. Alzner too before his play declines.

Carlson right now would fetch a ton! His contract is cheap and he is a top 2 dman that plays in all situation. I bet we could get a ton for him.

Ward is having a career year so perfect time to trade him. We missed the boat trading Ovie circa 09-10 so we need to make sure that kinda stuff never happens again.

It will be utterly stupid to hold onto these assets since they most likely will decline in value at some point.

Playing the dumb suggestion card by you comes off poorly not comical. At least try some real moves to improve the team instead of just randomly crapping on different suggestions.

 

[Zoidberg Jesus]

Not sure how I feel about this, but hypothetically...

Backstrom, Green, and a 1st for Subban and Plekanec

Johanson and Brouwer for Edler

Brooks Laich ($4.500m) / Mikhail Grabovski ($5.000m) / Alex Ovechkin ($9.538m)
Evgeny Kuznetsov ($0.900m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Tom Wilson ($0.894m)
Jason Chimera ($2.000m) / Eric Fehr ($1.500m) / Joel Ward ($3.000m)
Chris Brown ($0.853m) / Jay Beagle ($0.900m) / Michael Latta ($0.900m)
Aaron Volpatti ($0.575m) /

Karl Alzner ($2.800m) / P.K. Subban ($8.000m)
Alexander Edler ($5.000m) / John Carlson ($3.967m)
Dmitry Orlov ($2.000m) / Patrick Wey ($0.640m)
Jack Hillen ($0.700m) /

Braden Holtby ($1.850m)
Philipp Grubauer ($0.579m)

CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $10,003,483

10M left over for better top 6 wingers and/or 3C. An extra 3.4M if you CBO Laich and bury Erskine.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Not sure how I feel about this, but hypothetically...

Backstrom, Green, and a 1st for Subban and Plekanec

Johanson and Brouwer for Edler

Brooks Laich ($4.500m) / Mikhail Grabovski ($5.000m) / Alex Ovechkin ($9.538m)
Evgeny Kuznetsov ($0.900m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Tom Wilson ($0.894m)
Jason Chimera ($2.000m) / Eric Fehr ($1.500m) / Joel Ward ($3.000m)
Chris Brown ($0.853m) / Jay Beagle ($0.900m) / Michael Latta ($0.900m)
Aaron Volpatti ($0.575m) /

Karl Alzner ($2.800m) / P.K. Subban ($8.000m)
Alexander Edler ($5.000m) / John Carlson ($3.967m)
Dmitry Orlov ($2.000m) / Patrick Wey ($0.640m)
Jack Hillen ($0.700m) /

Braden Holtby ($1.850m)
Philipp Grubauer ($0.579m)

CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $10,003,483

10M left over for better top 6 wingers and/or 3C. An extra 3.4M if you CBO Laich and bury Erskine.

Those are glaring holes in the top-3, much less the top-6 IMO.....two injury prone players and a 2nd year guy and we're supposed to be contenders? Even if I buy Fehr as a capable 3rd line center (which I don't) I don't see it. The D looks good though and the Goaltending looks bleak.

 

[artilector]

It's hard to fathom the desire of this fanbase to jettison talented players. We've gotten markedly worse since we've started doing this - yet some want to continue. Baffling.

Over-simplifying and over-dramatizing.

All players that have underperformed have been discussed -- Ovi, Backstrom, Laich, Brouwer, MJ, Green, Carrick. Nobody is suggesting outright dumping Backstrom, either, in fact almost nobody is suggesting anything but being open to a trade.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

True.

I think we should trade Kuznetsov and Burakovsky while their value is high as well. Alzner too before his play declines.

Carlson right now would fetch a ton! His contract is cheap and he is a top 2 dman that plays in all situation. I bet we could get a ton for him.

Ward is having a career year so perfect time to trade him. We missed the boat trading Ovie circa 09-10 so we need to make sure that kinda stuff never happens again.

It will be utterly stupid to hold onto these assets since they most likely will decline in value at some point.

It's funny how worked up people get about moving players out. We've tried the same core for 7 years and people still want to try it again. Pittsburgh, Chicago, Boston and LA are far less sentimental and the results speak for themselves.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

It's funny how worked up people get about moving players out. We've tried the same core for 7 years and people still want to try it again. Pittsburgh, Chicago, Boston and LA are far less sentimental and the results speak for themselves.

Nobody wants to blame the guy they cheer for and likely have a shirt or jersey of, but you're right. You can blame the coaches and GM as long as you want, but at some point you have to look at the core players of the team.

 

[BobRouse]

Weber's cap hit is 7.875. Subban is rumored to want 8 million a year.

I don't see Stastny making 8 million for 8 years. That kind of money is usually only thrown towards a bonafide #1C. Backstrom isn't even making 8 million a year. Crosby and Malkin's cap hits are around 8.7, Stamkos at 7.5, Staal and Getzlaf at 8.25 etc. I would think Stastny gets somewhere around 7 million and that could even be much.

As for Weber, I think that would be an overpayment. I don't think the Caps would have to add both a top prospect and a first rounder on top of a #1C to land him and if that's the case then move on to Subban.

OK first off the problem is the $$$ a player gets is relative to the demand and the salary cap. The salary cap is rumored to be around $70 million. Up significantly since Weber, Stamkos, Getzlaf etc signed their deals. Also since there is also a limit now in terms of contract years players won't be able to sign those 15 year $90 mil contracts for a modest cap hit.

Stastny could very well get close to that figure and Subban definitely will. Letang got over $7 mil per when the cap was lower and Subban just won a Norris didn't he? I think he won it last year at least...

I'm thinking Statsny is in his prime and a UFA at the very right time this year. There will be alot of offers and his price will be inflated unless there is a specific destination he has planned out in mind. I doubt that would be the Caps btw

Weber is first off singed thru 2026. I'm sure Nashville would want to negotiate the cap hit if he retires early or whatever that penalty is.

As far as value goes who knows. What is Backstrom+? What does that mean? Surely not some trash piece. The plus isn't going to be Brouwer or MJ. If Nash trades Weber its a clear signal for a full on rebuild even with Backstrom. Nashville will want a young top prospect as the + for sure.

 

[BobRouse]

Playing the dumb suggestion card by you comes off poorly not comical. At least try some real moves to improve the team instead of just randomly crapping on different suggestions.

That was to demonstrate the absurdity of the argument that "we didn't trade player X when his value was high/at its peak!". Hindsight is a beautiful thing.

I already have laid out several suggestions that I feel are far more feasible than making blockbuster trades that would ship out Backstrom, Green and whoever else.

Resign Grabovski

Trade MJ+Barber/Carrick+1st for Ehrhoff

Sign a 3C like Steve Ott who can win draws, chip in offensively and provide edge

Resign Halak if Holtby is going to be a malconent then trade him. If Halak wants too much and Holtby is being cool then keep him and sign another vet to back him up. Vet goalies can be had right now for cheap.

My suggestions don't involve super blockbusters and are far more feasible IMO

 

[g00n]

I think his game has fallen off to an extent. even with that, though, there are maybe a handful or two centers that might be better than him right now and less than a half dozen when his "A" game is on display. You don't replace him with a Jason Spezza.

my view is that its the concussion followed by the chicken wing to the head that he got this season that is the big issue.

remember when so many thought that replacing semin's production with either not a problem or no big deal? replacing backstrom just won't happen. it will be a long period of decades where they have their best center a tier below backstrom.

Semin has 21 goals and 20 assists in 58 games this year. His total goals/points per year have definitely been replaceable and replaced, especially at dollar value for $7M or whatever.

Not saying that means give up on Backstrom, but then your example of Semin doesn't mean anything, either.

I want to say the concussion fear is the issue but I also want to say there was a period where he started looking lazy BEFORE the concussion, and he had to reclaim his game which is why that injury was such a kick in the jimmies. So maybe it isn't just fear of injury or lack of confidence but some other lazy or careless streak.

 

[maybam]

Over-simplifying and over-dramatizing.

All players that have underperformed have been discussed -- Ovi, Backstrom, Laich, Brouwer, MJ, Green, Carrick. Nobody is suggesting outright dumping Backstrom, either, in fact almost nobody is suggesting anything but being open to a trade.

Barring a massive over payment from another team, trading Backstrom would not make this team better. We are already short on NHL C's, it just doesn't make sense to replace a top 20 one that we have locked up at a low cap hit.

Discuss all you want, but it's a bad idea.

 

[artilector]

Not sure how I feel about this, but hypothetically...

Backstrom, Green, and a 1st for Subban and Plekanec

Johanson and Brouwer for Edler

Brooks Laich ($4.500m) / Mikhail Grabovski ($5.000m) / Alex Ovechkin ($9.538m)
Evgeny Kuznetsov ($0.900m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Tom Wilson ($0.894m)
Jason Chimera ($2.000m) / Eric Fehr ($1.500m) / Joel Ward ($3.000m)
Chris Brown ($0.853m) / Jay Beagle ($0.900m) / Michael Latta ($0.900m)
Aaron Volpatti ($0.575m) /

Karl Alzner ($2.800m) / P.K. Subban ($8.000m)
Alexander Edler ($5.000m) / John Carlson ($3.967m)
Dmitry Orlov ($2.000m) / Patrick Wey ($0.640m)
Jack Hillen ($0.700m) /

Braden Holtby ($1.850m)
Philipp Grubauer ($0.579m)

CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $10,003,483

10M left over for better top 6 wingers and/or 3C. An extra 3.4M if you CBO Laich and bury Erskine.

Pretty good, something along these lines (but please, praise to Allah, replace Laich with an X or something, ruins the whole picture, lol).

I guess the main alternative thought-process is that under a different coach/system, Ovi and Backstrom would somehow return to being effective ES players. I guess it makes sense to at least try. I'm not very optimistic, on account of their diminished foot speed and mediocre work-rate.

The only other approach I can think of is just put Ovi and Nick on separate lines with two really hard-working players each, to some extent we see that being tried right now with Ovi (though Beagle & MJ are a poor man's version of what is needed, i.e. "Zubrus & Clark").

But if these things don't work, let's say next season, I think you have to start thinking trade. It's untenable to have a completely ineffective top-6 with two "superstars". Team needs a shakeup, an alternative direction, and to salvage value.

 

[hb13xchamps]

OK first off the problem is the $$$ a player gets is relative to the demand and the salary cap. The salary cap is rumored to be around $70 million. Up significantly since Weber, Stamkos, Getzlaf etc signed their deals. Also since there is also a limit now in terms of contract years players won't be able to sign those 15 year $90 mil contracts for a modest cap hit.

Stastny could very well get close to that figure and Subban definitely will. Letang got over $7 mil per when the cap was lower and Subban just won a Norris didn't he? I think he won it last year at least...

I'm thinking Statsny is in his prime and a UFA at the very right time this year. There will be alot of offers and his price will be inflated unless there is a specific destination he has planned out in mind. I doubt that would be the Caps btw

Weber is first off singed thru 2026. I'm sure Nashville would want to negotiate the cap hit if he retires early or whatever that penalty is.

As far as value goes who knows. What is Backstrom+? What does that mean? Surely not some trash piece. The plus isn't going to be Brouwer or MJ. If Nash trades Weber its a clear signal for a full on rebuild even with Backstrom. Nashville will want a young top prospect as the + for sure.

Statsny is rumored to be willing to take a hometown discount to stay with the Avs and that is apparently from his 6.6 million cap hit already. If the Caps are willing to move Backstrom and sign Statsny I'm sure it wouldn't be for 8 million. For him the choice would be making $$$ and playing for a crap team or taking less money to sign with a team that can at least make the playoffs.

Subban probably will get the 8 million. He did win the Norris but it is noted that it was during the lockout season and many people thought Ryan Suter deserved it. I just don't see Montreal dishing out that much cash for PK.

 

[maybam]

It's funny how worked up people get about moving players out. We've tried the same core for 7 years and people still want to try it again. Pittsburgh, Chicago, Boston and LA are far less sentimental and the results speak for themselves.

I see you left Philly off of your list.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

That was to demonstrate the absurdity of the argument that "we didn't trade player X when his value was high/at its peak!". Hindsight is a beautiful thing.

I already have laid out several suggestions that I feel are far more feasible than making blockbuster trades that would ship out Backstrom, Green and whoever else.

Resign Grabovski

Trade MJ+Barber/Carrick+1st for Ehrhoff

Sign a 3C like Steve Ott who can win draws, chip in offensively and provide edge

Resign Halak if Holtby is going to be a malconent then trade him. If Halak wants too much and Holtby is being cool then keep him and sign another vet to back him up. Vet goalies can be had right now for cheap.

My suggestions don't involve super blockbusters and are far more feasible IMO

And that makes us contenders?

 

[BobRouse]

Statsny is rumored to be willing to take a hometown discount to stay with the Avs and that is apparently from his 6.6 million cap hit already. If the Caps are willing to move Backstrom and sign Statsny I'm sure it wouldn't be for 8 million. For him the choice would be making $$$ and playing for a crap team or taking less money to sign with a team that can at least make the playoffs.

Subban probably will get the 8 million. He did win the Norris but it is noted that it was during the lockout season and many people thought Ryan Suter deserved it. I just don't see Montreal dishing out that much cash for PK.

We'll see what Stastny gets but the point is moot if he wants to stay in Colorado isn't it?

Montreal would absolutely pay that to keep him. Why wouldn't they? The Habs are one of the most profitable teams in the NHL and every team is getting a bunch of additional cap space this offseason. They aren't going to have any more problem fitting him under their cap than any other team would.

And that makes us contenders?

Would trading Backstrom????

Fact is this would make us much better. Full season of Grabovski and Kuznetsov among other things will help. Hillen too.

A top 4 dman can do considerable things to the look of the roster.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I see you left Philly off of your list.

They've been a more recent finalist at least.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

That was to demonstrate the absurdity of the argument that "we didn't trade player X when his value was high/at its peak!". Hindsight is a beautiful thing.

I already have laid out several suggestions that I feel are far more feasible than making blockbuster trades that would ship out Backstrom, Green and whoever else.

Resign Grabovski

Trade MJ+Barber/Carrick+1st for Ehrhoff

Sign a 3C like Steve Ott who can win draws, chip in offensively and provide edge

Resign Halak if Holtby is going to be a malconent then trade him. If Halak wants too much and Holtby is being cool then keep him and sign another vet to back him up. Vet goalies can be had right now for cheap.

My suggestions don't involve super blockbusters and are far more feasible IMO

It's not hindsight. Its just decent pro scouts. St louis didnt use magic when they traded Johnson. Nor did Pitt with Whitney and Gogo, or LA with Johnson, Simmonds and Schenn or Boston with Kessel.

 

[maybam]

They've been a more recent finalist at least.

Yes, before getting rid of their "cancers".

 

[BobRouse]

Not sure how I feel about this, but hypothetically...

Backstrom, Green, and a 1st for Subban and Plekanec

Johanson and Brouwer for Edler

I would get a kick if you put the MJ+Brouwer for Edler post up on the Canucks board! That would be hilarious! They are looking for much younger and signficant pieces than that!

The first trade is no different than what I remember Gartner+Stevens for Mullen+MacInnis. Its a lateral move at best and doesn't address the fact that we'd still have a top 4 dman difficiency. That trade isn't even necessary and won't make us a lick better.

Plekanec has never even come close to sniffing a PPG pace. He is NOT a #1C. A good #2 guy..he has reached 65pts once in his career. Not to mention that he is 32 years old and on the decline.

Horrible from my view. Then you pay Subban $8 mil+ over 8 years and lose a 1st round pick when our system is slowly being siphoned due to graduating talent.

Edit: meant to say Pleks reached 70 once and twice 65 if you include his 70pt season

 

[BobRouse]

It's not hindsight. Its just decent pro scouts. St louis didnt use magic when they traded Johnson. Nor did Pitt with Whitney and Gogo, or LA with Johnson, Simmonds and Schenn or Boston with Kessel.

The Whitney and Goligoski trades were excellent by Shero.

Ask any Philly fan and they do that Mike Richards trade 100x out of 100. Simmonds+Schenn>>Richards.

Kessel is among the league leaders in scoring and Boston mainly has an aging Loui Eriksson to show for that trade.

If player A reaches the pinnacle of his trade value that does not mean you trade him. Thats awful reasoning.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

The Whitney and Goligoski trades were excellent by Shero.

Ask any Philly fan and they do that Mike Richards trade 100x out of 100. Simmonds+Schenn>>Richards.

Kessel is among the league leaders in scoring and Boston mainly has an aging Loui Eriksson to show for that trade.

If player A reaches the pinnacle of his trade value that does not mean you trade him. Thats awful reasoning.

It's also not what I said at all.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

HAH..,..funny, I cancelled my season tickets and just got a notice that they extended the renewal window to March 28th. Trying to sucker people in with a late season run of hope.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Yes, before getting rid of their "cancers".

They certainly weren't afraid to make moves before either were they?

 

[artilector]

Barring a massive over payment from another team, trading Backstrom would not make this team better. We are already short on NHL C's, it just doesn't make sense to replace a top 20 one that we have locked up at a low cap hit.

Discuss all you want, but it's a bad idea.

Well Mr.Zoidberg threw out Plekanec as an idea, and that's basically exactly the type of player one would seek as a replacement. High work-rate, solid 2C skill.

Now, I haven't watched Plekanec recently, and one has to think about age, but whatever, for the sake of argument... I have little doubt that right now this team would be better with a "Plekanec" than with Backstrom.

Theoretically, young very skilled center on a nice cap hit sounds great. But I look at Backstrom, and his lack of speed/energy is very worrying in "today's NHL". For all we criticize Oates (and deservedly IMO as far as mad handedness disease and lineup roulette), most teams in the NHL play a different variation of the same kind of boring/efficient hockey where speed, work-rate, and discipline rule -- and you can't get by on pure skill. I'm not sure a team can pull off putting more than one guy like that on a line.

So if guys like Grabo & Kuz can largely replace Backstrom's contribution on the PP, I think it's completely legitimate to consider whether the team would be better off downgrading Backstrom's passing skills at ES for somebody significantly faster & more tenacious.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Would trading Backstrom????

Fact is this would make us much better. Full season of Grabovski and Kuznetsov among other things will help. Hillen too.

A top 4 dman can do considerable things to the look of the roster.

Come on Tinner...How can I possibly guess if trading Backstrom would make us contenders without knowing the return. It's certainly not outside the realm of possibility that a credible team architect could do better with our assets.

Look at the impact trading a Bobby Carpenter had 1 season removed from a 50g campaign. Two lesser players who turned out to be valuable long term team members and made the team better overall.