Speculation: Acq./Rost. Bldg./Cap/Lines etc. Part LXXVIII (It's Working! Let's Fix It.)

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Hivemind

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Who did the Penguins get at the TDL last year? I honestly can't recall.

Justin Schultz was their deadline acquisition, but they also acquired Daley is December and Hagelin in January.

Last year they just called up their farm guys and they played just fine.
They didn't just call them up in the playoffs. They had their farm guys and various other roster candidates competing for spots ALL YEAR LONG. They tried thirty six different skaters during the regular season. They had guys like Plotkinov and Sprong in their line-up at the beginning of the season before they went a different direction. Each of Sheary, Rust, and Kuhnhackl had 41+ regular season games with the Penguins. By the time the playoffs wore around, they weren't farm hands anymore.
 

BobRouse

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The problem with using Pittsburgh as an example is that they were calling guys up from WBS when the team was underperforming and they were on track to fire their coach. The Caps situation is different from that.

Plus, they don't have the necessary cap space to be able to give all of these guys a chance.

Yeah but Vrana and Sanford had a good taste this year already. They may see more as well.

We've seen Stephenson can hang and both Carey and OBrien have a few games under their belts.

I'm more concerned about the D. I don't like the prospect of Ness and Chorney as our 7/8
 

BobRouse

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Justin Schultz was their deadline acquisition, but they also acquired Daley is December and Hagelin in January.


.

Well we got Eller and Connolly and we were proactive about it.

Basically at the the TDL the Pens got a bottom pair/depth D for their team. Sounds like something we should probably do.
 

Hivemind

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Well we got Eller and Connolly and we were proactive about it.

Basically at the the TDL the Pens got a bottom pair/depth D for their team. Sounds like something we should probably do.

And they got Kessel, Bonino, and Fehr in the off-season. Off-season additions don't mean you can stay complacent during the regular season.

And you're still ignoring that their tested their depth and the Capitals haven't. And that Pittsburgh added with in-season trades.
 

BobRouse

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And they got Kessel, Bonino, and Fehr in the off-season. Off-season additions don't mean you can stay complacent during the regular season.

And you're still ignoring that their tested their depth and the Capitals haven't. And that Pittsburgh added with in-season trades.

The Pens had dire needs where we don't. Are you suggesting we should make a trade just for the sake of making one when we are going well?

Remember the Pens were in panic mode during all those trades up until their TDL move.
 

Hivemind

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I'm saying it's foolhardy to assume the team's depth is sufficient when it hasn't been tested. They need to try out the Hershey kids and likely add more depth.
 

BobRouse

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I'm saying it's foolhardy to assume the team's depth is sufficient when it hasn't been tested. They need to try out the Hershey kids and likely add more depth.

I agree on the depth but I think its on the D where we need it.

I'm sure our guys in Hershey will get more games in during the second half of the season here.
 

txpd

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Jan 25, 2003
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I'm saying it's foolhardy to assume the team's depth is sufficient when it hasn't been tested. They need to try out the Hershey kids and likely add more depth.

I am not sure what you think trying out the Hershey kids means and what the value of that is. I am not sure what your definition of adding depth is. Do you mean adding back up players or adding lineup players that push current lineup players to back up roles.

Keep in mind the the Caps are using less than a full roster in order to bank cap space to add an established NHL player at the deadline. I might be that they cant bank that cap space AND shuttle call ups into and out of the lineup.
 

CapitalsCupReality

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More indirect Pens slobbering....they brought up some minor leaguers when they were struggling and they did well, so the Caps, leading the league, should do the same.

This comes down to the coaches and GM making those decisions. If guys aren't brought up, it's because they're not ready in the eyes of management and/or the guys we have are better options. Sanford is probably getting recalled, maybe Vrana for the playoff run too....how many more do we need to try out with the big club?
 

CapitalsCupReality

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Not sure what the right answer is. I'd personally like to upgrade Alzner and add another scoring threat up front.

Been thinking about this. Moving Alzner a pending UFA as part of an upgrade in the top-4 (or I guess top-6) is interesting. There are teams that would trade for, sign, and protect Alzner I'm guessing. How do you successfully replace a guy who gets your toughest D assignments?
 

BobRouse

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Not sure what the right answer is. I'd personally like to upgrade Alzner and add another scoring threat up front.

Alzner is having a tough season. He is a UFA who will get paid $$$ which I don't think we should pay.

But as far as this season he is still a critical part of the team and needed.

If we are to trade him it will not free up all that much cap space since he is on a great deal. It would also have to be a three way trade as no team we trade him to will want to send a D back most likely.

Id wager he is a critical piece of the locker room and a defacto leader too so we can't afford to risk losing that.
 

AlexBrovechkin8

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Interesting nugget from an Isles trade proposal on the main boards

-Regarding Colorado, Friedman believes asking price for Duchene/Landeskog is a high end young D, OR a promising young goalie for the future (New info: Ex: Ilya Sorokin)

Who would dangle Samsonov for Duchene/Landeskog?
 

BobRouse

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Interesting nugget from an Isles trade proposal on the main boards



Who would dangle Samsonov for Duchene/Landeskog?

1. How would we afford either of those guys salary?

2. Who else do you get rid of to fit them in?

3. Colorado clearly wasn't satisfied with the last Russian goalie they got from the Caps and Samsanov probably won't even come over next year which would be a deal killer.
 

Jags

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Nobody doubts that this team is capable of winning a Stanley Cup if everything goes right and everyone stays healthy. However, gambling on everything going right and everyone staying healthy is a rather foolhardy gamble. You need the depth to survive key players slumping at the wrong point and other guys getting hurt. If you want to rely on Hershey to fill that depth, they need to let the Hershey guys play NOW to prove they are capable of filling that role. The Penguins churned through a dozen different options before settling on Sheary and Rust. They didn't just call up guys from WBS during the playoffs and hope they worked.

More than likely it's going to require adding playing who are capable of handling the load, even if it means bumping someone else down the line-up or into the press box.

You keep saying this, and you go on to say it a couple more times after this post.

We do NOT have the cap room to bring up Hershey players or make "depth" moves. The only way to accrue the cap space needed to make the right moves is to NOT do what you're saying.

There's no remedy for healthy. The only way to play Hershey guys is to bring them up as 13F or 7/8D and sit a vet. If we do that, our cap space will stay at zero, and the only way to make an impact trade will be to move a roster player we don't want to move.

Nobody said that, either. Wilson, Connolly, or Winnik could sit instead (or one of them is moved for salary cap considerations).

1) Wilson, Connolly, and Winnik are all playing well.

2) Sitting those guys to play a farm guy means adding a player to the active roster, which costs money we don't have, vastly limiting any trade option.

3) Trading one of them to free up cap space is not how "depth" works. This would be getting rid of a guy that's working to give a shot to guys that might not work. That's not smart.

I absolutely agree that it'd be nice to evaluate as many of the kids as possible, but we simply cannot afford to do that unless there's a significant, injured-reserve level injury. Making a trade to move out a roster player when everyone's playing well to give you the freedom to test the farm and the room to make a trade that might not happen or help, is needlessly destructive.
 

AlexBrovechkin8

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1. How would we afford either of those guys salary?

2. Who else do you get rid of to fit them in?

3. Colorado clearly wasn't satisfied with the last Russian goalie they got from the Caps and Samsanov probably won't even come over next year which would be a deal killer.

1 and 2. I don't know. There would obviously have to be some sort of retention by the Avs and/or a roster player(s) heading back West.

3. Colorado isn't going to contend for a while, which is why they want a "promising young goalie for the future." That pretty much fits Samsonov to the letter. I don't see how Varly plays into this at all, really.
 

Ridley Simon

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I'm saying it's foolhardy to assume the team's depth is sufficient when it hasn't been tested. They need to try out the Hershey kids and likely add more depth.

You keep coming back to this. No one disagrees with it, save the application. HOW?

Barring injuries, what's the plan? Sitting Connolly, Winnik, or Wilson for long stretches? Also -- every added player that sits means a reduction in accrued salary cap space for the TDL.

Pittsburgh had scrubs playing for them to start last year, so they were able to ship them in and out until they found the ones that "worked".

Caps don't have any scrubs. Which of the 3 do you sit for the prolonged period you'd need to make a decision? It would need to be 2 people sitting, to get multiple looks, or 1 person sitting for a really long time to get multiple looks thru 1 slot.

I just don't see how they accomplish this unless they trade someone out for futures, or do a 2-1 roster deal.
 

BobRouse

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1 and 2. I don't know. There would obviously have to be some sort of retention by the Avs and/or a roster player(s) heading back West.

3. Colorado isn't going to contend for a while, which is why they want a "promising young goalie for the future." That pretty much fits Samsonov to the letter. I don't see how Varly plays into this at all, really.

Its all about perception and how the management of Colorado would look like. The fans would come down hard for getting fleeced by the Caps yet again for another Russian goalie who may not even come over to play next year.

I think they want a young top 4 D tho
 

CapitalsCupReality

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It would be hard to pull off, sure, but I think an upgrade over Alzner gets this team a Cup.

Saw your post in the OEL trade thread. Interesting idea. Cap hit is 5.5 for the next 2 years.

How to make it work and attractive to Arizona....hmmm....

Some are saying he's been bad defensively this year, not sure how true.
 

AlexBrovechkin8

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This is pretty much all 16 teams recipe for success.

Not really. There are some teams in the playoffs who realistically have very little to no shot at winning 16 games. Last year in the East, realistically, nobody outside of the Caps, Pens, or Lightning had a shot even if they were healthy and got some bounces.
 

Hivemind

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The cap space bind is certainly a very restricting factor*, but it's not unworkable. They're already in the home stretch in terms of how much time they can bank space. They're already calling up players whenever they take road trips. Let the players they call up into the line-up, rather than tucking them into the press box. Losing a couple games of Winnik or Wilson or Connolly or whoever isn't going to destroy the team chemistry. It doesn't even need to be the same "regular" sitting each game. These guys are professionals, and the motivations behind these decision can be explained to them. They need to make a concerted effort to get at least 4 or 5 game looks at some of Stephenson, Boyd, and/or O'Brien before the trade deadline to know what these guys can bring at the NHL level in 2017. They can re-assess Vrana and/or Sanford after the trade deadline, and Barber whenever he's healthy and ready.

Unless all the Hershey kids blow the doors off their auditions, they're going to need to bring in some forward depth. Preferably this would be a guy who can help fix some of the secondary scoring and powerplay concerns and be a regular in the line-up. They also need to bring in a depth defenseman almost regardless of what happens with the Hershey players.

The wonderful thing about this new CBA is the ability of teams to retain money. If they're getting UFAs or players with one year remaining on their contract, retaining money should not be a huge issue for the other team. If they're bringing in a particularly high contract player, moving Winnik or Connolly should not be a gigantic hang-up. They have numerous PK players who have excelled this year, and no regulars (forwards or defensemen) on the Capitals PK are giving up more goals against on the PK than Winnik.

This core group has not shown the ability to overcome the adversity of the playoffs in the past. To me that means we need to ensure we have enough additional depth to overcome that adversity. If that means pushing one or two of the current regular 12 to the bench, so be it. Competition and accountability is good. Guys like Connolly, Winnik, and Wilson aren't some world beating caliber of player that cannot ride the pine during the playoffs. If they have a legitimate fit for some of their historic playoff weaknesses (secondary scoring, powerplay, depth defense), I would not hesitate to make that move.

*Remember that contentious $500K above comparables they put on Wilson's contract that certain posters kept saying wasn't a big deal?
 
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