Speculation: Acq./Rost. Bldg./Cap/Lines etc. Part LXXVIII (It's Working! Let's Fix It.)

[AlexModvechkin8]

Saw your post in the OEL trade thread. Interesting idea. Cap hit is 5.5 for the next 2 years.

How to make it work and attractive to Arizona....hmmm....

Some are saying he's been bad defensively this year, not sure how true.

I have no idea if the Caps could or would pull it off, but if they could pull it off without giving up Carlson... a top 4 of Niskanen, Orlov, Carlson, and OEL... well, I'd give up a lot to get that.

 

[Langway]

Let the players they call up into the line-up, rather than tucking them into the press box. Losing a couple games of Winnik or Wilson or Connolly or whoever isn't going to destroy the team chemistry.

None of those players deserve to sit based on their play, though, and I'm skeptical any Hershey player outside of Vrana is an upgrade over a regular. If someone was thought to be an unquestionably ready upgrade I think they'd get their chance. But for the vast majority of them they're just getting rewarded with an NHL paycheck for their play in Hershey. They know what they have and it's mostly marginal options.

The big obstacle in attempting to upgrade over Winnik or Wilson is the coach trusting that line more than he probably should. It's a decent line but it shouldn't be a go-to shutdown line as it has been at times. That deployment also reduces the likelihood of anyone else getting slotted into that line to see how they fit. The coaching staff and management are reducing the number of open spots. Connolly is the last uncertainty IMO as far as regulars go and he may be beginning to solidify his place.

All of these bigger trade ideas are off-season type moves. I don't think they run that risk in-season with the way things are going unless the subtraction is minimal and the addition substantial. That's hard to do in adding a bigger cap hit, even if teams retain.

 

[txpd]

Losing a couple games of Winnik or Wilson or Connolly or whoever isn't going to destroy the team chemistry.

A couple of games. Winnik and Connolly have 13 goals combined while being scratched 24 games combined. One of them have already been scratched for more than half the games so far. Chorney has played only 9 games and still manages to keep up when he gets in.

Seems to me that Schmidt needs to play more, not less.

Meanwhile Vrana played 12 games. We see a player with potential but not one that I would expect in a playoffs style game to be even as prepared as Burakovsky has been. How does a handful of games for any Hershey player make the Caps better for their playoff run?

Re Winnik. Winnik gives up more shga than the other PK forwards? Any idea where that fits in league wide as the Caps are just about the best PK in the league? Defending is an acquired skill. It requires experience more than offense. Wilson as a young forward has proved to be a surprise PKr for his level of experience. unestablished prospects are not going to replace someone on the pk.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Unless something goes south, I'm with Langway. They're unlikely to rock the boat in season beyond a depth pickup or two.

 

[um]

None of those players deserve to sit based on their play, though, and I'm skeptical any Hershey player outside of Vrana is an upgrade over a regular. If someone was thought to be an unquestionably ready upgrade I think they'd get their chance. But for the vast majority of them they're just getting rewarded with an NHL paycheck for their play in Hershey. They know what they have and it's mostly marginal options.

The big obstacle in attempting to upgrade over Winnik or Wilson is the coach trusting that line more than he probably should. It's a decent line but it shouldn't be a go-to shutdown line as it has been at times. That deployment also reduces the likelihood of anyone else getting slotted into that line to see how they fit. The coaching staff and management are reducing the number of open spots. Connolly is the last uncertainty IMO as far as regulars go and he may be beginning to solidify his place.

All of these bigger trade ideas are off-season type moves. I don't think they run that risk in-season with the way things are going unless the subtraction is minimal and the addition substantial. That's hard to do in adding a bigger cap hit, even if teams retain.

that's the point of all this Vanek talk, and he's not the only low cap hit option out there.

 

[BobRouse]

This core group has not shown the ability to overcome the adversity of the playoffs in the past. To me that means we need to ensure we have enough additional depth to overcome that adversity. If that means pushing one or two of the current regular 12 to the bench, so be it. Competition and accountability is good. Guys like Connolly, Winnik, and Wilson aren't some world beating caliber of player that cannot ride the pine during the playoffs. If they have a legitimate fit for some of their historic playoff weaknesses (secondary scoring, powerplay, depth defense), I would not hesitate to make that move.

*Remember that contentious $500K above comparables they put on Wilson's contract that certain posters kept saying wasn't a big deal?

If you do not believe in the core group then what you are really saying is that we should have altered it in the offseason or need to alter it now.

If the core group, who we have to rely on heavily, can't get it done and you don't believe they ever will then Thomas Vanek (who has been a big disappointment with the Isles, Habs and Wild) is not going to fix that.

What you want is to trade Ovechkin, Backstrom, Holtby or Carlson. Those kinds of players and that's not something I agree with at all.

Unless something goes south, I'm with Langway. They're unlikely to rock the boat in season beyond a depth pickup or two.

This is not only the most rational thing to do but what is highly likely barring a big drop off in play or significant injury.

 

[PB12]

Yeah i'll say this again to the people who love Orlov and want to get rid of Alzner, its all about how he does in the playoffs. He **** up and he is gone. I don't care how talented he is on offense. If he can't play defense then he does more harm then good. And even if he plays decent defense, not good because i don't expect him to figure it out anytime soon, if i'm Mac i'm telling him before he signs that expensive contract to go somewhere to learn how to pla defense. No joke. There are times where he looks like a boy among men. He has to play correct 2 way hockey. You guys are in love with his potential on offense, but i'm not. My only concern is can he protect his partner and goaltender. Just because you have 2 good players next to you that doesn't mean you can be careless.

 

[PB12]

And look i like Orlov. But the stuff he does sometimes really make me mad at times. More than any other player.

 

[MrRuin]

Thomas Vanek (who has been a big disappointment with the Isles, Habs and Wild)

this is becoming an urban legend...Vanek had 44 points in 47 games with the Isles playing on the hottest line at the time with Tavares and Okposo. Vanek played well with the Habs until the playoffs where he underperformed and still managed to put up 10 points in 17 games. Neither the Habs nor the Wild were a fit for him.

 

[Hivemind]

None of those players deserve to sit based on their play, though, and I'm skeptical any Hershey player outside of Vrana is an upgrade over a regular. If someone was thought to be an unquestionably ready upgrade I think they'd get their chance. But for the vast majority of them they're just getting rewarded with an NHL paycheck for their play in Hershey. They know what they have and it's mostly marginal options.

It's not about them "deserving" to sit or finding an in-house upgrade, it's about finding out which of the Hershey guys are going to be able to hang with the team when the chips are on the table in the playoffs. Unless you're taking the gamble that nobody gets hurt in the playoffs, some of these players are going to have to step up. That's why people are calling for adding a forward and/or testing out the Hershey options. All we have so far is seen that Sanford is a warm body at the NHL level and that Vrana can look impressive (but still put up mediocre box cars) and plays a style of game that I wouldn't want to depend on from a rookie in the playoffs. If the "marginal options" in Hershey do prove to be marginal options, then the need to upgrade the depth for the playoffs becomes even sharper.

Re Winnik. Winnik gives up more shga than the other PK forwards? Any idea where that fits in league wide as the Caps are just about the best PK in the league? Defending is an acquired skill. It requires experience more than offense. Wilson as a young forward has proved to be a surprise PKr for his level of experience. unestablished prospects are not going to replace someone on the pk.

You can answer your own questions here, dig in:
http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/

If you do not believe in the core group then what you are really saying is that we should have altered it in the offseason or need to alter it now.

If the core group, who we have to rely on heavily, can't get it done and you don't believe they ever will then Thomas Vanek (who has been a big disappointment with the Isles, Habs and Wild) is not going to fix that.

What you want is to trade Ovechkin, Backstrom, Holtby or Carlson. Those kinds of players and that's not something I agree with at all

That's not at all what I'm saying. Trying arguing with my actual points, rather than building straw men. I'm saying we need to provide the core group with as much support as they can. Sticking with a roster of exactly 12 NHL forwards and 7 defensemen (the 7th of which) is obviously not doing that. Sticking with a bottom six that only one player who's even scored more than 2 goals in a playoff season (Eller in 2014), has a combined 14 playoff goals in their careers, and has three players which have NEVER scored in the playoffs (Wilson, Winnik, Connolly) is not providing them that support. Sticking with the same powerplay that has wilted repeatedly in the playoffs is not providing them that support, especially when one of the best powerplay scorers (and arguably the best net presence) of this generation is sitting out there for the taking.

 

[Aurelian]

Hey guys, longtime lurker making his first post on the Caps board, if that is okay.

Personally, I'm in the Vanek boat, that is, a (relatively) cheap scoring threat that can be plugged in anywhere the top 9, and add depth.

I would agree with most here in saying that the team is pretty damn good at the moment, but considering other teams are going to be looking to upgrade (including those flightless avian blessings from western Pennsylvania), it's probably better to improve the team as well. The team does not have any urgent need at the moment, but at the same time it's not perfect, and could be improved still.

Although I think a scoring forward with a fairly low cap hit is the way to go, I'm not deadset on Vanek. For instance, I have seen Vrbata and Tatar mentioned in this thread as well, and I think both are options, as well.

 

[Raikkonen]

Im ok with no trading at deadline. But calling Sanford, Vrana, Barber and LOB playoff depth? I do not believe it one bit. Stephenson? Maybe.

Really, guys, most of those kids will be eaten alive. They got not much to actually score in playoffs. Don't fool yourselves.

We can expect good things only from 3 forwards with good probability: Ovechkin, Backstrom, Beagle. All others have question marks. Depth guys being in AHL have even bigger question marks.

 

[Revelation]

Yeah i'll say this again to the people who love Orlov and want to get rid of Alzner, its all about how he does in the playoffs. He **** up and he is gone. I don't care how talented he is on offense. If he can't play defense then he does more harm then good. And even if he plays decent defense, not good because i don't expect him to figure it out anytime soon, if i'm Mac i'm telling him before he signs that expensive contract to go somewhere to learn how to pla defense. No joke. There are times where he looks like a boy among men. He has to play correct 2 way hockey. You guys are in love with his potential on offense, but i'm not. My only concern is can he protect his partner and goaltender. Just because you have 2 good players next to you that doesn't mean you can be careless.

So how do we replace his puck movement abilities? He's playing like a 45 point defenseman right now. Alzner's defensive style isn't cost free. Being unable to transition from offense to defense gives other teams more chances and wears our guys out.

It would be a moot point if Alzner was Ryan Suter but he's not.

Maybe we teach him to go somewhere else and learn how to move the puck up the ice and generate chances? He's had a lot more years than Orlov to figure that part of the game out, especially since this is Orlov's 2nd season after missing 2 years of development.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Alzner is what he is. Can Orlov learn to play playoff caliber Defense? That is the question. If he can't, they have to move on imo.

 

[Langway]

It's not about them "deserving" to sit or finding an in-house upgrade, it's about finding out which of the Hershey guys are going to be able to hang with the team when the chips are on the table in the playoffs. Unless you're taking the gamble that nobody gets hurt in the playoffs, some of these players are going to have to step up.

I don't think it takes NHL games to have a pretty good idea of who can help or not. Outside of Vrana or Sanford they're unlikely to be given more than a fringe role unless an opportunity opens up, they run with it and earn the trust of the coaching staff. It's as simple as that combined with the cap implications. To earn that trust takes more than a game or two and is a process that hasn't needed to be initiated. When an opportunity opens up, sure, but it hasn't happened. A game or two in January alone isn't going to change the equation much, esp. when the adrenaline factor can be deceptive. There's just no need for such experiments unless they want to test out alternate fourth-liners in the event of trading 26/43 but I can't figure Trotz wanting to do so.

If the "marginal options" in Hershey do prove to be marginal options, then the need to upgrade the depth for the playoffs becomes even sharper.

I suspect that's already been concluded, not so much because the marginal options can't play at all but so as to solidify scoring-line depth. I have very little concern that they can't find a forward capable of playing eight to ten minutes on the fourth line (albeit with less responsibility initially). But, similar to Ness as the best D option in Hershey, I don't think they need to see depth forwards in repeated NHL action to make an assessment. Filler minutes up front can be cobbled together. Filler minutes on D as a 7/8 is a higher threshold, as-is top nine or scoring-line minutes. It's those they need insurance on. No opportunity outside of Vrana killing it changes that.

 

[g00n]

*Remember that contentious $500K above comparables they put on Wilson's contract that certain posters kept saying wasn't a big deal?

Yeah, it isn't. Yet. Wait until the contract is up to evaluate. Also, I assume every other player on the roster is earning every single penny of his salary...

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

Why do people assume Vanek could be acquired on the cheap? He is the Wings leading scorer and fun fact that I didn't know: he has two less points than Radulov. Holland will be loathe to admit defeat and end the playoff streak and sell, so you know he'll be asking for the moon for any pieces that have value.

 

[um]

Why do people assume Vanek could be acquired on the cheap? He is the Wings leading scorer and fun fact that I didn't know: he has two less points than Radulov. Holland will be loathe to admit defeat and end the playoff streak and sell, so you know he'll be asking for the moon for any pieces that have value.

who said that? He'll probably cost at least first.

 

[twabby]

Vanek's name has been mentioned mainly because of his quality of play vs. cap hit. PA Parenteau is another name who would easily fit given his tiny cap hit. He has 12 goals and 8 assists and would easily supplant players like Connolly or Wilson.

 

[Calicaps]

Vanek's name has been mentioned mainly because of his quality of play vs. cap hit. PA Parenteau is another name who would easily fit given his tiny cap hit. He has 12 goals and 8 assists and would easily supplant players like Connolly or Wilson.

I'd take current-season Connolly over Parenteau every day and twice on Sunday.

 

[HTFN]

You can't stay neutral on a moving train.

Capitals need to acquire at the deadline as though they're expecting Hell itself. Thinking things will come or stay easy is exactly why they've doomed themselves to fail time and time again.

I'd rather hurt the feelings of a rental and sit him because Burakovsky is playing out of his mind than watch Andre flame out and have nobody to replace him with.

 

[PB12]

So how do we replace his puck movement abilities? He's playing like a 45 point defenseman right now. Alzner's defensive style isn't cost free. Being unable to transition from offense to defense gives other teams more chances and wears our guys out.

It would be a moot point if Alzner was Ryan Suter but he's not.

Maybe we teach him to go somewhere else and learn how to move the puck up the ice and generate chances? He's had a lot more years than Orlov to figure that part of the game out, especially since this is Orlov's 2nd season after missing 2 years of development.

Who gives a you know what about puck moving when you leave your partner and goaltender in multiple 2 on 1 situations.

 

[Revelation]

Who gives a you know what about puck moving when you leave your partner and goaltender in multiple 2 on 1 situations.

Who gives a you know what about staying back when you leave your team unable to mount an attack and let the other team come at you over and over.

Orlov brings more goals to the team than he costs them, the same can't be said about Alzner this year.

I'd rather win 4-3 than lose 2-1.

 

[PB12]

Who gives a you know what about staying back when you leave your team unable to mount an attack and let the other team come at you over and over.

Orlov brings more goals to the team than he costs them, the same can't be said about Alzner this year.

I'd rather win 4-3 than lose 2-1.

Give me a break. He is lucky he has a good partner and a great goaltender to cover his ***. He does the stuff that you just mentioned and he is done gone. Had he done the stuff he is doing now back in the days before Nisky, Caps fans would of wanted his head.

 

[Calicaps]

Who gives a you know what about puck moving when you leave your partner and goaltender in multiple 2 on 1 situations.

Give me a break. He is lucky he has a good partner and a great goaltender to cover his ***. He does the stuff that you just mentioned and he is done gone. Had he done the stuff he is doing now back in the days before Nisky, Caps fans would of wanted his head.

There's a faction among our posters that thinks points for is all that matters. That group also seems to have missed most of Mike Green's Caps career.