Speculation: Acq./Rost. Bldg./Cap/Lines etc. Part LXXVIII (It's Working! Let's Fix It.)

[CapitalsCupReality]

I'm so tired of people saying this, without even recognizing via comment that salary HAS to go out to do it. That means roster player. That means someone we don't want to lose. And NO, Wilson's salary or Winnik's or probably even Eller's won't allow 6+m back.

Not to mention what it does to the PK unit if it needs to be a combo of those players.

Maybe the NHL will just allow the Caps to go 4-5 mil over the salary cap.

no offense, but I think people get it with regards to how trades work by now.

If he's suggesting a big trade, he knows a name player must be heading the other way for cap purposes right? Maybe he's advocating a big trade of some sort. I guess I don't get your frustration. Many Caps fans have coveted a bigger trade than the types have typically occurred in years past. Hard to fault people for wanting to try something different.

 

[EroCaps]

Yeah I don't give a rats ass about that Pens game. That game did more damage to them than it did to us.

Listening to Hockey Central today, McLean said 18 teams are looking for a top four PMD or a bottom guy to shore up their team for the playoffs.

Caps don't have the space for a top four guy and no 6/7 better than Chorney will be moved, plain and simple. Chorney was a very savvy signing by BMac.

Noted earlier, move Schmidt up as a top four replacement if JC is out long term, use Vrana as the top nine callup if needed. Done and done.

From the TSN Insider trading segment:



What they said.

http://www.tsn.ca/counting-down-to-tradecentre-what-each-nhl-team-needs-1.652984

This core roster has repeatedly failed in the playoffs. At very least I would err on the side of being proactive at the deadline.

You can always improve your team---and I promise you other Eastern contenders will.

...and trading Laich for Winnik was clearly a good move.

 

[Revelation]

VANEK????

Dude!! That guy is the ANTITHESIS of a playoff player. He coasts 90% of the game.

Connolly has been KILLING it with nearly 56% of the shots going in our favor when he is on the ice.

In fact ever since him Eller and Bura were put on a line together and stuck with it they have been our most consistent.

Also he is a far more physical player and a much better defender than lazy Vanek.

Vanek drags down every team he goes to. There is a reason they can't get him out fast enough. I guess if you like gutless players that disappear for large stretches of games, float and play little D then you will like Vanek.

End Vanek rant. haha. No Vanek is not a terrible player but there is something about him and his effort level that I do question.

If a top 6 player for any team goes down there is no easy fix. If Oshie goes down then yes Bura/Vrana would have to step up. Simple as that.

I'd hate to see your Phil Kessel rant.

Vanek is killing it this season playing an involved game and his bread and butter is net front play. Connolly had a lazy floater reputation prior to this year as well. The only thing that's changed is you watched one of them play and not the other.

 

[RandyHolt]

I should have said, forward depth has largely been untested for the past 5 years.

 

[Revelation]

I don't want a pp specialist. If Connolly or Burt are going to get benched I would prefer a two way player. Which Vanek is not.

Oshie and Williams are tied for 2nd on the Caps in goals. They are tied for 2nd in PPGs and Vanek as a primary pp player has no more than either of them. Again, his game is net front presence. He is not a shooting option. He screens the goalie and digs for rebounds. The Caps, for good reason, don't use that approach.

At present I don't see the need to mess with the team.

Let's see... every single year in the playoffs their PP goes to **** because their "shoot in front of the net" options have their space taken away, which is what you need to get a shot off. The PPs that work in the playoffs almost all have a deflecting/screening guy like Hornqvist... or Holmstrom... or Hartnell... or Vanek. Who also has a better shot than Oshie and possibly JW if they decide to go with the easily counterable shooter in the slot PP.

Their offense also falls off a cliff every playoffs, like clockwork. They bounce out of the 2nd round losing games 2-1 or 3-2. So instead of getting the best offensive guy we can, we should get a 2-way middle 6 tweener? How does that make any sense?

 

[Revelation]

If the Caps play the Pens in a series it is going to be a coinflip either way. Neither team is going to get a Pronger type player that will absolutely turn the tide. And that is the kind of player it would take and simply put there are none on the market without shredding your team as it is.

That's not how it works. A good acquisition has a ripple effect throughout the lineup. Hagelin and Daley are nowhere near Pronger yet they did more for the pens than a Pronger would have by providing the kind of play they needed and slotting everyone else in their place. Jeff Carter is no Pronger yet he improved the 2012 Kings more than 5 Prongers would have by putting everyone in the right place. Kings went from a middling bottom 10 team to an unstoppable juggernaut the moment he was added. Gaborik provided a similar effect in 2014, and Gaborik had a lot of the same baggage Vanek does.

For the Caps a ripple effect acquisition would be a good offensive player on the 3rd line making it that much harder to match up against the top 6 which get reliably shut down every year. Or a really good defensively responsible PMD, but they don't have a chance at that, so someone like Brendan Smith who can hold their own in a bottom 4 role and provide relief in case of injury or Orlov/Schmidt/whoever faltering.

 

[Sam Spade]

This core roster has repeatedly failed in the playoffs. At very least I would err on the side of being proactive at the deadline.

You can always improve your team---and I promise you other Eastern contenders will.

...and trading Laich for Winnik was clearly a good move.

Laich trade was good for the bottom line, I doubt it was good for the room.

And if we go with your theory of the core is the issue then let's go big or go home. Move Kuz or Burka or Oshie but someone special BETTER be coming back otherwise why bother?

The only player this team needs that will make it better is a "Wayne Simmonds" type.

 

[Hivemind]

ok...stipulated. what would you do to test the depth?

By giving the guys from Hershey games. You know, the thing I've been saying all season long.


Additionally, the concept of bringing in depth players shouldn't just be laughed off because the team is currently winning.

 

[hb13xchamps]

Is he playing better than Connolly, clearly. I like Connolly, but it's no comparison. Vanek gives us 3 offensive lines, and we do need a net front presence.

IMO, Wilson needs to go. Though he kills penalties, he takes too many penalties.

I haven't looked at updated numbers but at the beginning of the season Wilson was one of the top players in the league in terms of drawing penalties.

 

[hb13xchamps]

That's not how it works. A good acquisition has a ripple effect throughout the lineup. Hagelin and Daley are nowhere near Pronger yet they did more for the pens than a Pronger would have by providing the kind of play they needed and slotting everyone else in their place. Jeff Carter is no Pronger yet he improved the 2012 Kings more than 5 Prongers would have by putting everyone in the right place. Kings went from a middling bottom 10 team to an unstoppable juggernaut the moment he was added. Gaborik provided a similar effect in 2014, and Gaborik had a lot of the same baggage Vanek does.

Hagelin and Daley were traded individually for Perron and Scuderi who were struggling on a team that was tanking toward the bottom of the standings and fired their coach mid season.

The Caps are the hottest team in the NHL and are sitting in 2nd place in the league standings. Why would they disrupt that at the moment?

 

[Ridley Simon]

no offense, but I think people get it with regards to how trades work by now.

If he's suggesting a big trade, he knows a name player must be heading the other way for cap purposes right? Maybe he's advocating a big trade of some sort. I guess I don't get your frustration. Many Caps fans have coveted a bigger trade than the types have typically occurred in years past. Hard to fault people for wanting to try something different.

Yeah....but no. I don't trust people get that, at all. If so, then pair up who goes out.

I don't fault wanting something more, that's all well and good...but people never actually state that anywhere.

"I want Duchene!!" Ok, cool. So...MaJo, Orlov and 1st/prospect as parting gifts work for you?

"I want Vanek!!" Ok good, closer. But if he's such a cheap commodity, have to assume everyone and their brother will see the same thing. So....probably someone like Vrana or Bowey or Samanov, plus a little salary works for you?

"I want a top 4D!!" I don't even know where to start with that one.

"I want a million dollars!!!" Ok, how are you going to get it?

 

[Ridley Simon]

Let's see... every single year in the playoffs their PP goes to **** because their "shoot in front of the net" options have their space taken away, which is what you need to get a shot off. The PPs that work in the playoffs almost all have a deflecting/screening guy like Hornqvist... or Holmstrom... or Hartnell... or Vanek. Who also has a better shot than Oshie and possibly JW if they decide to go with the easily counterable shooter in the slot PP.

Their offense also falls off a cliff every playoffs, like clockwork. They bounce out of the 2nd round losing games 2-1 or 3-2. So instead of getting the best offensive guy we can, we should get a 2-way middle 6 tweener? How does that make any sense?

I like Hartnell. He'd be an ideal winger for Kuz. How expensive is he?

 

[Hivemind]

FWIW, Hartnell has spent most of the year on Columbus' 4th line (but he does get PP2 time). Columbus is weird.

 

[SpinningEdge]

What about Tatar?

2.5 cap hit, 26, and on final year.

He's been dealing with injuries - but he's proven to be a contributor - and he's fast.

For the first time in like 26 years - Red Wings are looking like sellers.

 

[txpd]

By giving the guys from Hershey games. You know, the thing I've been saying all season long.


Additionally, the concept of bringing in depth players shouldn't just be laughed off because the team is currently winning.

Last season we saw what happens to players in their first playoffs when Orlov and Schmidt crashed and burned. They have that experience now and we can hope they will be better. I am not sure what giving a handful of Hershey players a cursory games or three does with that in mind.

Depth players should be acquired as back ups and I support that.

 

[txpd]

Let's see... every single year in the playoffs their PP goes to **** because their "shoot in front of the net" options have their space taken away, which is what you need to get a shot off. The PPs that work in the playoffs almost all have a deflecting/screening guy like Hornqvist... or Holmstrom... or Hartnell... or Vanek. Who also has a better shot than Oshie and possibly JW if they decide to go with the easily counterable shooter in the slot PP.

Their offense also falls off a cliff every playoffs, like clockwork. They bounce out of the 2nd round losing games 2-1 or 3-2. So instead of getting the best offensive guy we can, we should get a 2-way middle 6 tweener? How does that make any sense?

So, you would give Oshie's ice to Hartnell or Vanek? He's the 2nd best goal scorer on the team for two seasons now and you boot him? Ok.

The reason the Caps don't use a Holmstrom in front of the net is because their prime weapon is Ovechkin who is trying to shoot it into the net and the Caps don't want players on either side getting in the way. Further if you put the current slot shot as a post player in front of the net, you have removed the primary secondary shooting option after Ov and the PK will then take the pass from Backstrom to the point defenseman away which in turn takes away Ov's touches.

You are also saying that the Caps should fundamentally change their team. Change their pp away from the kind of pp they run among other things.

Are you saying that they are not really that good?

Edit...What you want is a post player in Johansson's spot to step from the corner to the front as Johansson does. You need a left shot for that and you need someone that can handle both Johansson's zone entry and puck retrieval. Vanek nor Hartnell are the right player.

Meanwhile what the Caps need is for Kuznetsov to produce. They win last season with kuzy producing at a 0.5 ppg rate.

 

[Ridley Simon]

By giving the guys from Hershey games. You know, the thing I've been saying all season long.


Additionally, the concept of bringing in depth players shouldn't just be laughed off because the team is currently winning.

I dont think the issue is whether the team wants too or not. It's the fact that no one has gotten hurt. Literally just Oshie. Odd game for Carlson. That's it.

I don't like Carey going up, but the rest of the moves were solid.

 

[Ridley Simon]

What about Tatar?

2.5 cap hit, 26, and on final year.

He's been dealing with injuries - but he's proven to be a contributor - and he's fast.

For the first time in like 26 years - Red Wings are looking like sellers.

Very intriguing. If you want him, buy him ASAP. Price will only get rediculous by the TDL.

 

[Jags]

Let's see... every single year in the playoffs their PP goes to ****

Their offense also falls off a cliff every playoffs, like clockwork.

You don't think some of that is consistently running into superb goaltending in the postseason?

Our last 4 playoff exits were versus Matt Murray playing out of his mind and three straight 7-game series against Lundqvist.

We beat the Flyers, Islanders, and Bruins, and two of those teams also had some monster goaltending.

Do the math. In the Ovechkin era, considerably more than half of the postseason games the Caps have played have come against crazy-good, Hall of Fame-level netminding. Almost half of Ovi's playoff games were against Thomas and Lundqvist.

In other words, it's not always colossal offensive failures that lead to reduced offense. Great goalies with defenses that know how to play in front of them are very tough to beat in a series.

 

[Revelation]

So, you would give Oshie's ice to Hartnell or Vanek? He's the 2nd best goal scorer on the team for two seasons now and you boot him? Ok.

The reason the Caps don't use a Holmstrom in front of the net is because their prime weapon is Ovechkin who is trying to shoot it into the net and the Caps don't want players on either side getting in the way. Further if you put the current slot shot as a post player in front of the net, you have removed the primary secondary shooting option after Ov and the PK will then take the pass from Backstrom to the point defenseman away which in turn takes away Ov's touches.

You are also saying that the Caps should fundamentally change their team. Change their pp away from the kind of pp they run among other things.

Are you saying that they are not really that good?

Edit...What you want is a post player in Johansson's spot to step from the corner to the front as Johansson does. You need a left shot for that and you need someone that can handle both Johansson's zone entry and puck retrieval. Vanek nor Hartnell are the right player.

Meanwhile what the Caps need is for Kuznetsov to produce. They win last season with kuzy producing at a 0.5 ppg rate.

The idea that our PP is some untouchable sacred cow is absurd. It stuttered every single playoffs and has been far from amazing this season. There is room for improvement, adjustments, etc. Remember how you were so utterly convinced that Orlov couldn't be on the top PP as a lefty... until he was and became the best D on the PP. The idea that Johansson's zone entries and puck retrieval are so vital and cannot be done by any other player/adjustment are just as random. And if their PP is bricked in the playoffs (as it most likely will be) do you just keep trying the same thing over and over? It's funny how you think so many things are set in stone for this team when it has never made it past the 2nd round.

Vanek is also not just a PP specialist, he's the type of creative offensive forward that can get Kuzy going, or can click with Backstrom and have Ovechkin get Kuzy going . Just look at his highlights from this year. The idea is to have 3 scoring lines with multiple impact forwards on each, or as many as you can cram in there.

 

[Revelation]

You don't think some of that is consistently running into superb goaltending in the postseason?

Our last 4 playoff exits were versus Matt Murray playing out of his mind and three straight 7-game series against Lundqvist.

We beat the Flyers, Islanders, and Bruins, and two of those teams also had some monster goaltending.

Do the math. In the Ovechkin era, considerably more than half of the postseason games the Caps have played have come against crazy-good, Hall of Fame-level netminding. Almost half of Ovi's playoff games were against Thomas and Lundqvist.

In other words, it's not always colossal offensive failures that lead to reduced offense. Great goalies with defenses that know how to play in front of them are very tough to beat in a series.

Weird how only one of those monster goalies ended up winning the cup. Strange how other teams figure out how to crack them, just not us.

They lost more playoff series in the Ovechkin era than they won FFS.

 

[Jags]

Hagelin and Daley are nowhere near Pronger yet they did more for the pens than a Pronger would have by providing the kind of play they needed and slotting everyone else in their place.

Which only happens if your team is riddled with holes the way the Pens were early on last season. The Caps were demolishing the NHL at the deadline last year. They were 10-4 in February, and dealt with having a couple key guys injured for long stretches without missing a step. Yet they still made a great deal for Winnik and made depth C/D moves, just in case.

Arguing that they should have done more than that requires hindsight. GMBM would have needed a crystal ball to even think about making impact changes to a team that stood 45-12-4 at the TDL, #1 in the NHL, and Vegas' odds-on favorite to win it all.

And as it stands right now, unless Carlson's injury is serious, they're pretty much in the same position. Today's team is playing better than they were at this time last year, and that's a VERY tough bar to clear. Possession is better, our D is better, and all of our young guys have matured.

As it stands right this second, why would you monkey around with that?

 

[Jags]

By giving the guys from Hershey games. You know, the thing I've been saying all season long.

You literally just made a post about how incredibly healthy we've been all year, and you know we've had almost zero cap room. How do you give Hershey guys games without cap space or waiving (and having someone claim) roster players?

There's been a handful of times when we played the vet over the call-up scratch, and some of those were day-of situations where playing the kid would have been a dodgy, "for the hell of it" call.

Additionally, the concept of bringing in depth players shouldn't just be laughed off because the team is currently winning.

Sure, but that's still an "if we can find some cap room" kind of proposition unless you want to get rid of what's working right now. We haven't had cap room to bring in ANY players. Hopefully we'll be able a generate some room, but that's speculative at best.

 

[Revelation]

I like Hartnell. He'd be an ideal winger for Kuz. How expensive is he?

He won't waive his NMC from Columbus, costs 4.75 million for a few more seasons, they wouldn't move him since they're firing on all cylinders, and he would have to be protected.

The time to get him was in 2014 when Philly dumped him after panicking over his contract length. We could have gotten him for Brooks Laich and a late pick most likely.

 

[Jags]

Weird how only one of those monster goalies ended up winning the cup. Strange how other teams figure out how to crack them, just not us.

They lost more playoff series in the Ovechkin era than they won FFS.

Give it a rest. Great goalies become great goalies by beating SOMEONE. That it was us sucks, but that's how the world works.

Choosing to ignore something as profoundly meaningful as stellar goaltending widely believed to be the best in the business is laughable. And so is the macro perspective of decade-plus eras riddled with glaring personnel issues and dodgy coaching.

The "Trotz/MacLellan Era" has been pretty great from the jump and has gotten progressively better. If you want to make impact changes to a league-leading team today because of crap that happened prior to Trotz, that's kinda nutty.

I get being frustrated by the organization never winning a Cup, but so little of that history has any meaningful impact on what happens today.

Our most glaring weaknesses last year were possession and even-strength performance. We're way better at both. Our management, coaching, and personnel have addressed the biggest kinks, and we're standing atop the NHL again. What we're doing is working, and we can't afford any additions.

ANY change you make right now means deleting something. You don't think Wilson is valuable enough, Connolly doesn't cost enough to offset incoming salary, no one's going to pay to rent Winnik... So who is it?

And let's say we manage to clear enough room to add Vanek outright. That'd be great. But how do you get him? You don't think we move our 1st for a rental. Bowey's not looking like the blue-chip he might have been last year and no one's paying for Samsonov this far ahead of his NHL debut.

So it's Vrana? You don't think they go for Wilson plus a 1st and a prospect, but somehow Vrana gets it done?

You're just naysaying, Rev. All the possibilities are off the table as far as you're concerned, but somehow we're supposed to make a key acquisition that doesn't mean subtracting a substantial piece of what's working? That's not possible.