Jags
Mildly Disturbed
NOT carrying extra roster guys is how you accumulate the $4m we're projected to maybe have at the deadline.
A static 500K doesn't move the needle much.
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Speculation: Acq./Rost. Bldg./Cap/Lines etc. Part LXXVIII (It's Working! Let's Fix It.)
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NOT carrying extra roster guys is how you accumulate the $4m we're projected to maybe have at the deadline.
A static 500K doesn't move the needle much.
Jags
Mildly Disturbed
And again, that cap space will have directly come from NOT spending money on those two spots. You just said yesterday, in exasperated fashion, that carrying and playing more young guys is something you've been clamoring for all year. We couldn't have done that all year. Couldn't afford it.
NOW you're saying we'll have space at the deadline, which we'll have gotten from NOT doing what you've been complaining about.
It's one or the other, Hive. Can't be both. With the space we entered the season with, those two ideas are mutually exclusive without moving out a sizable chunk of salary -- basically losing costly roster guy for futures or something cheap.
So we could either have carried and played young guys all year as you've "been saying all season long," OR not do that and accumulate the space to make a real acquisition or two at the deadline. Not both.
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Am I the only one who's watched several of the past cup winners bring up young talent for the playoffs and succeed? I think Vrana can be that guy, he was not at all outmatched in the NHL when he was up. I know "playoff hockey" is different, but he's pretty feisty for a little scoring winger. I think he can hold his own and be called upon if needed.
Hivemind
We're Touched
This isn't "having it both ways." I've been consistent with my line of thinking, that I want to test out what they have in Hershey. Having an additional $500K would go a long way towards being able to do that AND bank up cap space. Especially if you have that $500K from the beginning of the season onwards (it would be worth something near $2-$2.5M in trade deadline space).
I wasn't advocating that they need to keep players down to maximize cap space. I was simply pointing out that the assertion the Capitals ONLY have the space for a #7D is false if management continues to manage the way they have. I'm willing to acknowledge that management is unlikely to change their thinking and rotate in Hershey players, especially given their utilization of O'Brien and Stephenson recently.
And, FWIW, they could actually have MORE cap space if they had been rotating in other Hershey players rather than sticking with Zach Sanford for 19 games.
I wasn't advocating that they need to keep players down to maximize cap space. I was simply pointing out that the assertion the Capitals ONLY have the space for a #7D is false if management continues to manage the way they have. I'm willing to acknowledge that management is unlikely to change their thinking and rotate in Hershey players, especially given their utilization of O'Brien and Stephenson recently.
And, FWIW, they could actually have MORE cap space if they had been rotating in other Hershey players rather than sticking with Zach Sanford for 19 games.
Jags
Mildly Disturbed
You're assuming Wilson could have been had for $500K less. A 16th overall that's played full-time in the NHL since he was 19, coming off a season where he took huge steps forward on the forecheck and PK, and is already regarded as one of the league's toughest guys and savvy at drawing penalties? That guy gets paid, Hive.
You can claim all you want that he could have been had for 25% less, but you have no way of knowing that. Wilson's agent had Orlov as a recent comp with a lower draft position, less NHL experience, and less accomplished, getting $2m. It's not apples-to-apples, but it didn't have to be. Wilson played well last year. That he hadn't gelled offensively yet, at 21, wasn't that big a deal. Why? The comp and...
Simmonds was their best player in that game. Wilson knew he was busted right after the hit, yet kept his head enough to take their best player off with him for 5 of the 7 minutes left in a playoff game with a 1-goal lead.
He's no dummy, shows versatility, size, speed, extremely rare physicality, durability, defensive and fighting acumen... Just coming off his ELC, that guy gets paid. Period.
You can claim all you want that he could have been had for 25% less, but you have no way of knowing that. Wilson's agent had Orlov as a recent comp with a lower draft position, less NHL experience, and less accomplished, getting $2m. It's not apples-to-apples, but it didn't have to be. Wilson played well last year. That he hadn't gelled offensively yet, at 21, wasn't that big a deal. Why? The comp and...
Simmonds was their best player in that game. Wilson knew he was busted right after the hit, yet kept his head enough to take their best player off with him for 5 of the 7 minutes left in a playoff game with a 1-goal lead.
He's no dummy, shows versatility, size, speed, extremely rare physicality, durability, defensive and fighting acumen... Just coming off his ELC, that guy gets paid. Period.
Couturier was a much better ELC player than Wilson playing a more important position and he got 1.75 as his bridge contract. Silfverberg took a 700k prove me one year after having shown as much as Burakovsky if not more. Plenty of other examples as well
There's ways to make it happen. We all know our management falls in love with role players and weren't playing hardball with Wilson's agent.
Jags
Mildly Disturbed
Couturier signed that deal when he was 18 months younger than Wilson was when he signed, and basically signed a year early. He could have played out his deal and gotten more. And he would have gotten more, given how big a role he took on and locked up during his ELC.
How many 20-year-old, 8th overall, impact starters sign a 1.75m deal with a full year remaining on their ELC? Couturier could easily have gotten $2m+.
Silfverberg signed a prove-it deal because he had to. He had a shaky year and missed 30 games spread throughout the last season of his ELC. Then he "proved it" and they signed him to 4-year, $15 million contract after a 13-goal season, largely because he'd just become a key PKer for them.
That deal has worked out for them since, fortunately. Not sure I see the comparison here, unless you're looking forward to maybe giving Wilson $3.75m per if he manages to eke out 13 goals sometime soon...
No one here knows anything of the sort. Some of you think you know all kinds of things. There's a difference between fact and baseless conjecture.
How many 20-year-old, 8th overall, impact starters sign a 1.75m deal with a full year remaining on their ELC? Couturier could easily have gotten $2m+.
Silfverberg signed a prove-it deal because he had to. He had a shaky year and missed 30 games spread throughout the last season of his ELC. Then he "proved it" and they signed him to 4-year, $15 million contract after a 13-goal season, largely because he'd just become a key PKer for them.
That deal has worked out for them since, fortunately. Not sure I see the comparison here, unless you're looking forward to maybe giving Wilson $3.75m per if he manages to eke out 13 goals sometime soon...
No one here knows anything of the sort. Some of you think you know all kinds of things. There's a difference between fact and baseless conjecture.
Hivemind
We're Touched
Go back and read the thread about his contract. The comparables are laid out pretty clearly in there. Also, as pointed out in that thread, Wilson had essentially no leverage. He was an RFA with no arbitration rights, which means that the only way he could drive up his price was threatening to play in Europe or hoping another team would give him an offer sheet (which is exceptionally rare).
txpd
Registered User
Are we still going round and round about Wilson? He is overpaid. Fishman and MacLellan are in the tank for him. He sucks. Even still he had a direct hand in them winning the game last night as he often does. Even without points on the board.
But hell....They could leave him unprotected for the Ex draft and he wouldn't get taken. Bad contract and no value and all.
But hell....They could leave him unprotected for the Ex draft and he wouldn't get taken. Bad contract and no value and all.
Hivemind
We're Touched
g00n
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As I recall we went back and forth for several days about the comparables, measurable, etc etc and there were good points made by all sides with some reasonable arguments against the comparables you offered and the hardball approach you advocated.
How much cap space did gmbm have last TDL that he didn't even use? More than $500K? Why are you assuming that this year, after more offseason moves that appear to be working out, gmbm is being hamstrung by $500K for a guy on a highly effective 4th line that, had it been clicking like this, may have put us past the Penguins in the 2nd round? Isn't Wilson a big part of that line and its success? Isn't that something to account for when evaluating the deal?
Seems like we're not seeing the forest for the trees.
Hivemind
We're Touched
This team is carrying only 12 forwards in an effort to bank what meager cap space it has. The proof is in the pudding that GMBM would like to have more cap space to work with right now.
g00n
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Alexander the Gr8
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In any case, we'll call up Vrana at no cost during the playoffs. That's our biggest deadline move IMO.
Langway
In den Wolken
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I think it's a very reasonable conclusion. How often have they not carried an extra forward OR defenseman? Typically there's at least one healthy scratch, if not two, and they're doing that on the road even.
Does that mean they regret certain contracts? Hardly. MacLellan is just doing what every GM of a competitive team should to maximize flexibility as much as possible heading into the deadline.
The team rewarded Wilson and they value him more than most teams probably. But even given their fondness toward him it's pretty questionable to protect him over Beagle or Eller at this point. They're both older Cs but Wilson has shown very little this season suggesting further offensive upside. Whereas those two Cs are more valuable in helping them win now.
CapitalsCupReality
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Are we really arguing a GM would like more cap space? Doesn't every near cap team? Thanks Sherlock!
I'd bet GMBM isn't beating himself up over Wilson's salary. Here, it's become an obsession for some.
I'd bet GMBM isn't beating himself up over Wilson's salary. Here, it's become an obsession for some.
Lightning are a sinking ship. Most interesting team to watch heading to the TDL, in my opinion.
I sure hope not. I've been saying to leave him exposed since this summer. Beagle before him. Eller too, obviously
Corby78
65 - 10 - 20
Vanek leaves the game after getting hit in the wrist with a puck. That could shake up the DTL options
txpd
Registered User
If Wilson is available, he gets picked. Beagle is too old. Eller, not sure about. Just saying
Carlzner
Registered User
They have been mediocre to bad all season long. It amazed me that people were still posting them above us in threads on the main board as recent as a week ago.
twabby
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I'm not going to pretend to be George McPhee but if Grubauer and Schmidt/Orlov are available and he says "give me Tom Wilson" I'll just go ahead and eat my hat. One is a third liner at best, the others are potentially a #1 goalie and top 4 two-way defensemen, respectively.
Ovechkins Wodka
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RandyHolt
Keep truckin'
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George has always preferred protection in his lineup. Always.
Are there players very similar age style cap etc to Willy that are going to be available? Or, is he more of a unique player. I don't see many players hitting us like Willy does to opposition.
George is going to have his pick of the litter on all teams. Potential top 4s are going to available in droves IMO.
Are there players very similar age style cap etc to Willy that are going to be available? Or, is he more of a unique player. I don't see many players hitting us like Willy does to opposition.
George is going to have his pick of the litter on all teams. Potential top 4s are going to available in droves IMO.
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