Player Discussion Aatu Raty

[David Bruce Banner]

Artoo Ratoo it is!

Is he related to R2D2?

I see now that this joke has already been beaten into the ground.

 

[racerjoe]

One thing I would add is, when he entered the league here in Oulu where I live, he was scrawny and the coach at the time did not have a clue how to utilize him.

In Jukurit he got to work under Olli Jokinen, who has previously ran one of the more prestigious hockey skill schools in the USA. Jokinen built Räty's confidence back up. OJ coaching him was probably the best case scenario for Räty.

Olli Jokinen is a very similar build and player. Was similarly extremely highly touted prospect at one point then fell flat on his early years. For him it was entering the NHL too soon where for Räty it was entering the Liiga before he was ready.

Please don't mention OJ in a positive light... unless referring to breakfast, but between failed prospect, and white bronco's it has too much negative context.

As per the other conversation, I think the crux is the use of "reprofiling" I think it is fair to say he lost his elite game breaking potential, and now has 2C upside.

I haven't watched him or followed him well enough to have a full opinion, but from what I have seen and read he looks a lot like he could trend like Rasmussen. I think next season will be very telling for him.

 

[krutovsdonut]

This is a non-issue. Playing in the AHL counts towards burning the ELC year as well.

incorrect. he was still 19 at the beginning of the season so his ahl year would have slid. it was 10 games in the nhl.

 

[ChilliBilly]

Please don't mention OJ in a positive light... unless referring to breakfast, but between failed prospect, and white bronco's it has too much negative context.

As per the other conversation, I think the crux is the use of "reprofiling" I think it is fair to say he lost his elite game breaking potential, and now has 2C upside.

I haven't watched him or followed him well enough to have a full opinion, but from what I have seen and read he looks a lot like he could trend like Rasmussen. I think next season will be very telling for him.

The reference to OJ means Olli Jokinen, not our disaster pick.

 

[racerjoe]

The reference to OJ means Olli Jokinen, not our disaster pick.

Oh I know, and also why I added the OJ Simpson in there as well.

 

[ChilliBilly]

Oh I know, and also why I added the OJ Simpson in there as well.

Ok, totally have no clue what the white bronco's referred to, sorry I am old and slow.

 

[Ita]

Räty was considered a generational offence talent.

He is now considered a solid two prospect with question marks about his skating.

MS isn't saying something bizarre here, maybe you have issue with the term reinvented? But he projects to something completely different than he initially did.

I am curious why he went from a potential #1 overall to ending up getting drafted at #52?

Like what happened to this guy in his draft year? Did he completely crash and burn?

I don't recall ever seeing someone falling this hard in such a short span of time.

 

[canuckking1]

The reference to OJ means Olli Jokinen, not our disaster pick.

Could've fooled me I thought he was talking about OJ Simpson

 

[Canucker]

I am curious why he went from a potential #1 overall to ending up getting drafted at #52?

Like what happened to this guy in his draft year? Did he completely crash and burn?

I don't recall ever seeing someone falling this hard in such a short span of time.

This was a good article on Raty and some of the possible reasons behind his fall.

Prospect of Interest: Despite down year, you 'can't fake' Aatu Raty's talent

 

[krutovsdonut]

As per the other conversation, I think the crux is the use of "reprofiling" I think it is fair to say he lost his elite game breaking potential, and now has 2C upside.

I haven't watched him or followed him well enough to have a full opinion, but from what I have seen and read he looks a lot like he could trend like Rasmussen. I think next season will be very telling for him.

he seems like a perfect example of the importance of putting prospects in a position to succee. the dramatic improvement he had within the d+1 season after he was traded to jukerit is pretty unmistakeable.

some stats about the 2020-21 karpat liiga team
-they had only two players with more than 10 goals in 58 games
-their top scorer was cody kunyck with 42 points
-the next scorer dropped off to 34 points and after that 27 and 26 points

i think you can thus infer from his jukerit stats that his draft year would have been better if he had played u20 or on a different liiga team. so his draft position would have been higher. and i think you can also infer that his karpat stats do not tell you very much. all that has been proven by the karpat experience is that if you play him at 17-18 as a north south 4th line low minute checker playing with men on a mediocre team with scoring issues as karpat did he will not thrive. that is a knock on his development potential in the sense a truly elite talent would not be as stifled by that usage playing with men and/or would have earned better usage, but there are only a handful of talents capable of doing that in any draft.

also, while it is probable his development was negatively impacted by the year with karpat, it was not enough to prevent him from breaking out immediately in a better situation. so i would discount much permanent damage and say that karpat made him look worse than he was.

so, realistically, he's a player that could have gone much higher than he did with different usage, and has demonstrated that he is is still developing.

bottom line, to me he is a mid to late first round pick talent who after the draft is tracking well and is still developing. i am excited to send him to abby into a pretty competitive high scoring situation and see if he can thrive there. i don't really put any particular ceiling or floor on his play right now although, obviously, the odds of any mid first rounder centre being more than a 2c are very low, and the odds of a player who has made the nhl as a call up twice at barely 20 years old being an nhl player in some capacity are pretty good.

 

[racerjoe]

Ok, totally have no clue what the white bronco's referred to, sorry I am old and slow.

OJ Simpson and his low speed chase.

he seems like a perfect example of the importance of putting prospects in a position to succee. the dramatic improvement he had within the d+1 season after he was traded to jukerit is pretty unmistakeable.

some stats about the 2020-21 karpat liiga team
-they had only two players with more than 10 goals in 58 games
-their top scorer was cody kunyck with 42 points
-the next scorer dropped off to 34 points and after that 27 and 26 points

i think you can thus infer from his jukerit stats that his draft year would have been better if he had played u20 or on a different liiga team. so his draft position would have been higher. and i think you can also infer that his karpat stats do not tell you very much. all that has been proven by the karpat experience is that if you play him at 17-18 as a north south 4th line low minute checker playing with men on a mediocre team with scoring issues as karpat did he will not thrive. that is a knock on his development potential in the sense a truly elite talent would not be as stifled by that usage playing with men and/or would have earned better usage, but there are only a handful of talents capable of doing that in any draft.

also, while it is probable his development was negatively impacted by the year with karpat, it was not enough to prevent him from breaking out immediately in a better situation. so i would discount much permanent damage and say that karpat made him look worse than he was.

so, realistically, he's a player that could have gone much higher than he did with different usage, and has demonstrated that he is is still developing.

bottom line, to me he is a mid to late first round pick talent who after the draft is tracking well and is still developing. i am excited to send him to abby into a pretty competitive high scoring situation and see if he can thrive there. i don't really put any particular ceiling or floor on his play right now although, obviously, the odds of any mid first rounder centre being more than a 2c are very low, and the odds of a player who has made the nhl as a call up twice at barely 20 years old being an nhl player in some capacity are pretty good.

You definitely need to put prospects in the right position to succeed I would argue this is true of 99% of players let alone prospects.

However a player with elite level talent that projects to be a game breaking talent would blow the doors off of AHL hockey at this point. Even if we ignore what he did before hand, you put the elite talent in the AHL and they dominate.

He still to me projects very well, and I see him as a 2 way C. People are making too much of his skating, I don't think it means he can't be a C, I think he just needs to play smarter which it seems he can.

Again this is just what I get from looking at his stats and reading I haven't watched him play to really know.

 

[krutovsdonut]

You definitely need to put prospects in the right position to succeed I would argue this is true of 99% of players let alone prospects.

However a player with elite level talent that projects to be a game breaking talent would blow the doors off of AHL hockey at this point. Even if we ignore what he did before hand, you put the elite talent in the AHL and they dominate.

He still to me projects very well, and I see him as a 2 way C. People are making too much of his skating, I don't think it means he can't be a C, I think he just needs to play smarter which it seems he can.

Again this is just what I get from looking at his stats and reading I haven't watched him play to really know.

that is fair. he's not showing elite.

i was trying to put his background in context. i think we need to assess him the way we would a 15-30 first rounder, because that's what i think we was. i don't think we should assess him as a late second.

based on that attributed draft position his development looks good enough for him to hold position but not move up or down.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I am curious why he went from a potential #1 overall to ending up getting drafted at #52?

Like what happened to this guy in his draft year? Did he completely crash and burn?

I don't recall ever seeing someone falling this hard in such a short span of time.

He played like 6 mins per game.

He was deployed in a defensive roles, who knows why.

Add to that the fact that he was a lanky skinny kid playing against men and his confidence gone. (Just talked with a Kärpät fan at work today about this. At the time he had followed it much closer then me.)

Also Kärpät were awful that year.

 

[Ozone]

Ratatouille: Raty-Ahtoo-y?

 

[racerjoe]

that is fair. he's not showing elite.

i was trying to put his background in context. i think we need to assess him the way we would a 15-30 first rounder, because that's what i think we was. i don't think we should assess him as a late second.

based on that attributed draft position his development looks good enough for him to hold position but not move up or down.

I mean we could use it as a positive and say he has moved up into the 15-30 first round area.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

View attachment 644701Ratatouille: Raty-Ahtoo-y?

I've just been calling him Vowels, lol.

 

[scud9]

He is better than Kupari but a level down from Lundell. 3rd line c In two years.

 

[RutherPlan]

He's going to be a top 6 center in the league, his shot and IQ is too good not to succeed. Over time, this is going to be one of those trades you could have three impact pieces in the NHL that are producing at a good level while Horvat is over 30 on his lifetime contract.

 

[Raistlin]

a ceiling of Lundell can I hope? a 3C with size and offensive tools that plays a 200 ft game is not easily acquired. uhh...how many of them did we think we had after Malhotra retired?

Sutter?
Dickinson?
Pahlsson?
Santoreilli?
the oceans of Granlunds in between?

the last true 3C that we can be excited about was ......Horvat.

and he didnt stay a 3C long.

Best case scenario is if we draft the 2C/1BC this year at the top of the draft. R2Ra2 becomes an elite 3C like what Hodgson did behind Hank and Kes that one year, in the meantime, magic RHD sprouts out from the pacific forest floor.

Retool complete.

 

[canuckking1]

His ceiling really just depends on how much he can improve his skating.

 

[F A N]

I'm not too concerned with Raty's ceiling. He's a good prospect. He's a natural C who seems to be better at C so that's promising. I don't know what other trades look like so there's really no basis for comparison.

 

[iceburg]

He's going to be a top 6 center in the league, his shot and IQ is too good not to succeed. Over time, this is going to be one of those trades you could have three impact pieces in the NHL that are producing at a good level while Horvat is over 30 on his lifetime contract.

If they trade Beauvillier for a mid tier prospect (i.e. a player that doesn't cost cap space now) and use the $8.5M not spent on Horvat on a top pairing D, this trade goes from good to a massive win.

 

[MS]

If they trade Beauvillier for a mid tier prospect (i.e. a player that doesn't cost cap space now) and use the $8.5M not spent on Horvat on a top pairing D, this trade goes from good to a massive win.

Beauvillier is a $2.0 - $2.5 million player on a $4.15 million cap hit. We aren't going to be trading him for assets.

Maybe we get something small back at next year's deadline.

 

[Canucker]

If they trade Beauvillier for a mid tier prospect (i.e. a player that doesn't cost cap space now) and use the $8.5M not spent on Horvat on a top pairing D, this trade goes from good to a massive win.

Finding the $8.5m top pairing defenseman will be the hard part.

 

[iceburg]

Beauvillier is a $2.0 - $2.5 million player on a $4.15 million cap hit. We aren't going to be trading him for assets.

Maybe we get something small back at next year's deadline.

Fair enough. My point is more about opening up the cap space. Hopefully they can get something for him but certainly don't want to pay to get rid of him. And whether it's Beavillier, Boeser, or Garland, getting rid of one or more of the high priced wingers serves the same purpose.

Finding the $8.5m top pairing defenseman will be the hard part.

Agree. But it's better to have that cap space to potentially acquire such a player than have it tied up for 8 years in light of the Miller signing and the EP signing next year. The roster/cap space needs rebalancing to address the problems on D.