Speculation: A Pretty Long List of 'Own Rentals' (those that have walked to UFA). Trending...

[Dekes For Days]

For perspective 15 out of 16 GM's made the wrong decision.

It doesn't mean it was the wrong decision.

 

[Gary Nylund]

No what I'm saying is that you're throwing shit at the wall to try and and make a non-point stick. Every organization has depth churn (a sizable portion of your list), every organization retains their expiring contributors when they're solidly in a playoff position (another sizable portion), and the vast majority acquire players to help at the deadline (the rest).

The 2nd for Boyle, and not trading Polak/Hunwick when we were a wildcard team- sure. Questionable asset management, arguments to be made both ways.
Not liquidating Barrie/Ceci when the decision was made that the team wasn't worthy of deadline reinforcement- sure. Questionable asset management, arguments to be made both ways.

The rest of the list? Nonsense born of a ridiculous and unprecedented (not to mention destructive) standard for value extraction.

Wasn't STL solidly in a playoff position when they traded Shattenkirk? Perhaps that's the sort of thing that doesn't happen very often but perhaps it should? If I was managing the Leafs, then starting from a few years ago, I'd think that we're probably going to be solidly in a playoffs position at the TDL for the next decade+ (barring unforeseen circumstances) and if let every player walk that we're not planning on resigning, the cupboard is going to get pretty bare pretty soon, especially if we exacerbate the situation by trading futures for rentals as well.

 

[Bluelines]

It doesn't mean it was the wrong decision.

Did they win the cup or set their team up for a better result this year, next year, year after? Did they put themselves in a situation where they are the last pig at the trough and forced to just barely scraping for scraps?

 

[Dekes For Days]

Did they win the cup or set their team up for a better result this year, next year, year after?

Just because you don't win the cup, it doesn't mean it was the wrong decision to not throw in the towel prior to trying. If you never try, you'll never win.

 

[Nylanderthal]

I think you're talking about yourself here.

You're right though. You can't be halfway pregnant. It's split into trimesters.

What are you even trying to say? You literally started a new thread with the exclusive intent on finding another reason to shit on the GM. You people are wild.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Well, if the Leafs is fighting for a playoffs spot around the TDL, don’t think they should keep their own rentals.

And if they’re clearly going to make it like in every season up to now since 17-18 you keep your expiring guys. What’s your point?

 

[4thline]

Wasn't STL solidly in a playoff position when they traded Shattenkirk? Perhaps that's the sort of thing that doesn't happen very often but perhaps it should? If I was managing the Leafs, then starting from a few years ago, I'd think that we're probably going to be solidly in a playoffs position at the TDL for the next decade+ (barring unforeseen circumstances) and if let every player walk that we're not planning on resigning, the cupboard is going to get pretty bare pretty soon, especially if we exacerbate the situation by trading futures for rentals as well.

Nope, they went 15-5 post trade, IIRC they were on the wrong side of a wildcard battle before the trade. Edit- they were 18th in the league, clinging to the 2nd wildcard spot by one point

I agree that there should be a higher standard on when to spend at the deadline, and on general principle disagree on spending a 1st without getting back at least a "rental+1", but there is no reason the cupboard should get bare from not selling off UFA's. We get the full complement of picks year after year.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Wasn't STL solidly in a playoff position when they traded Shattenkirk?

No, they weren't. They were 17th in the league, barely holding on to 8th in the conference, had a negative goal differential, and were on a 3 game losing streak. St Louis also had Pietrangelo and Parayko already anchoring the right side of their defense.

 

[Nylanderthal]

The problem is leafs management overrated the team and thought they were contenders much like Burkie did when he traded for Kessel

They lost in seven games to the cup finalists who made their other two victims along the way (one being everyone’s favourite in Vegas) look exceedingly ordinary.
Price went god mode, shit happens… one different bounce and we’re talking about a completely different season. One. Bounce.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Every example eh?

Ceci
Bogo
I guess you could put Brown down, he was traded for a bag of pucks for cap space.
Fehr
Gauthier
Leivo
Marleau
Martin
Moore
Plekanec
McElhinney
Pickard
Ennis
Petan
Ozhiganov
Sparks
Aberg
Clifford
Shore
Kaskisuo
Jumbo​

Brown was the price to unload Zaitsev, another Sweet Lou special. The rest of those guys are fodder and expected typical turnover during a few seasons

 

[Nylanderthal]

The NHL doesn’t work like EA sports where AI GMs give you full value trades of a pick and controllable asset for your expiring player every season. If that were the case why not sign every good ufa and trade them off for assets then? Sometimes the thought process here is severely lacking.

 

[AvroArrow]

Just because you don't win the cup, it doesn't mean it was the wrong decision to not throw in the towel prior to trying. If you never try, you'll never win.

I don't know why the OP doesn't understand this lol. What are you expected to do ? Roll over and let a team walk to the cup ? No, you give yourself the best shot to compete for the cup. Upsets can happen. NHL is a different animal, any playoff team can win the cup, hell Montreal was the 18th seed and made the finals. If you re-do the TB/NYI game 7 100 times, how many times does NYI win ? Just because they weren't able to knock them off this year doesn't mean their GM made the wrong decision.

Hindsight is always 20/20, but not selling our own pending UFA was the right decision. You gotta give your team a chance to compete.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Nope, they went 15-5 post trade, IIRC they were on the wrong side of a wildcard battle before the trade. Edit- they were 18th in the league, clinging to the 2nd wildcard spot by one point

Wow! Interesting that a team trades away a key piece and then goes on a run. Makes one wonder if the value of rentals isn't overrated in general. But then again in the interest of full disclosure, I'm against rentals in general.

I agree that there should be a higher standard on when to spend at the deadline, and on general principle disagree on spending a 1st without getting back at least a "rental+1", but there is no reason the cupboard should get bare from not selling off UFA's. We get the full complement of picks year after year.

Well, we didn't have many picks this year. I agree 100% about having a higher standard and I just hate being boxed in by dogmatic rules in general which is why I'd be fine with trading an own rental now and then, even when firmly in a playoff position (like JVR). To me, rentals only make sense (with some exceptions) if either your window is closing, or you believe that the rental has a good chance of putting you over the top and that hasn't been the case with us.

They lost in seven games to the cup finalists who made their other two victims along the way (one being everyone’s favourite in Vegas) look exceedingly ordinary.
Price went god mode, shit happens… one different bounce and we’re talking about a completely different season. One. Bounce.

One bounce is one way of looking at it. The other side of the coin is that the higher the stakes, the worse we play which is not a trend that leads to playoff success.

 

[Carltons Cup]

It's ok to disagree. But many people are stuck on the list I posted. Forget my opinion for a second.

What do you think Kyle Dubas will do with Morgan Rielly?

Mgmt is under the gun to get results. Playoff results.

If Dubas wanted to trade Rielly, he would've done so the past month or two. He didn't. Dubas is going to sink or swim this year with Rielly and then sign him to a bloated contract.

 

[Bluelines]

Just because you don't win the cup, it doesn't mean it was the wrong decision to not throw in the towel prior to trying. If you never try, you'll never win.

LOL going with that trope eh? If you never try you will never win, how about if you empty the cupboards bare, you don't develop enough talent, if you give away talent for free, if you give 50% of your cap to 4 players, you will never win?

Trying is not making the easy decisions, 100% of the fan base could do nothing with expiring assets, that is not "trying". Trying is making the hard decisions, when short term they look insane but long term it benefits your club.

If you don't win the cup that is absolutely what that means, this is not a sport where participation is the end goal.

 

[Dekes For Days]

If you never try you will never win, how about if you empty the cupboards bare, you don't develop enough talent, if you give away talent for free, if you give 50% of your cap to 4 players, you will never win?

The cupboards are not bare, our UFA losses have largely been offset by UFA gains, and our cap distribution is just fine. Being in the position we've been in and throwing in the towel before you try is not a valid option, which is why no GM does it.

 

[Racer88]

The cupboards are not bare, our UFA losses have largely been offset by UFA gains, and our cap distribution is just fine. Being in the position we've been in and throwing in the towel before you try is not a valid option, which is why no GM does it.

They are pretty bare

 

[Bluelines]

The cupboards are not bare, our UFA losses have largely been offset by UFA gains, and our cap distribution is just fine. Being in the position we've been in and throwing in the towel before you try is not a valid option, which is why no GM does it.

Cupboards are bare, our three best prospects are currently fringe NHLers at best.

• Sandin showed his foot speed is not NHL level
• Robertson look completely lost out there
• Lilly is almost ready to have the bust designation assigned.

Aside from those three there is not a single prospect that will be NHL ready in the next 2 years. We do not have a single game breaker prospect in the system. You don't get better by adding a 5th/6th Dman or a 3rd/4th line winger, that is bare bare bare.

 

[Twine Tickler]

if you want to win, you have to keep your talent...if you desire sustained winning you cannot overpay complimentary players. Own rentals are a part of the salary cap era, like it or not.

 

[Twine Tickler]

Cupboards are bare, our three best prospects are currently fringe NHLers at best.

• Sandin showed his foot speed is not NHL level
• Robertson look completely lost out there
• Lilly is almost ready to have the bust designation assigned.

Aside from those three there is not a single prospect that will be NHL ready in the next 2 years. We do not have a single game breaker prospect in the system. You don't get better by adding a 5th/6th Dman or a 3rd/4th line winger, that is bare bare bare.

All 3 of these players would be in the NHL if they were not boxed out by the talent in front of them. The cupboard is far from bare. It's arguably the best its ever been in the salary cap era

 

[4thline]

All 3 of these players would be in the NHL if they were not boxed out by the talent in front of them. The cupboard is far from bare. It's arguably the best its ever been in the salary cap era

Eh, gotta exclude the months from July 2015 to October 2016, but yeah

 

[hotpaws]

if you want to win, you have to keep your talent...if you desire sustained winning you cannot overpay complimentary players. Own rentals are a part of the salary cap era, like it or not.

how is overpaying our talent working out for us ?

 

[hotpaws]

All 3 of these players would be in the NHL if they were not boxed out by the talent in front of them. The cupboard is far from bare. It's arguably the best its ever been in the salary cap era

boxed in by the talent in front of them ? lol i don't think your looking at our roster

buy hey it's the summer baby when all our players are hall of famers , too bad we actually play the games which crush our hopes and dreams

 

[Bluelines]

if you want to win, you have to keep your talent...if you desire sustained winning you cannot overpay complimentary players. Own rentals are a part of the salary cap era, like it or not.

You don't have to keep your talent, you have to be able to supply a high level of talent repeatedly. So if you have a great scouting team and you draft great talent or if you have a great development system. you can do own rental. What you can do is own rental and then have next to no development system.

If the philosophy is own rental, then when your people leave you need a quality feeder system to replenish.

Our last impact player was drafted in 2016, without looking him up can anyone name him? So at next years draft it will be SIX years since we drafted anyone who is not an interchangeable support player. Six years of bleeding talent and 6 years since any sort of good player was drafted. We are not a good team because we are good at drafting, we are good team because we were bad at playing.

 

[Bluelines]

All 3 of these players would be in the NHL if they were not boxed out by the talent in front of them. The cupboard is far from bare. It's arguably the best its ever been in the salary cap era

Your saying that Lilly/Sandin can't beat out Holl, Dermott or Marincin? Robertson can't beat out Engvall, Mikheyev, Spezza, Simmonds, Jumbo? And that is the talent that is boxing them out?

Complimentary bottom of the lineup fringe NHLers does not make our prospects deep, it makes them pretty common and pretty easy to replace in the UFA market.

Bunting, freaking Bunting got a NHL job with the Leafs before Robertson, that should tell you what the brass think of Robertson.

 

[4thline]

Our prospects are still prospects, therefore we have no prospects!