Speculation: A Pretty Long List of 'Own Rentals' (those that have walked to UFA). Trending...

[ottomaddox]

There are only three players I’d say the Leafs should’ve definitely sold at the TDL over the Matthews era. JVR, Bozak, and Barrie. The first two because we were still early in the rebuild. Barrie because we were going nowhere in 2020 and should’ve cut our losses.

I forgot about Barrie. Thanks.

 

[ottomaddox]

Leafs are the only team to have free agents.

Knowledge passed on in this thread:

1. Lou used to be TOR's GM
2. Other teams use own rentals too

 

[ottomaddox]

the only ways to avoid "own rentals" are to either never be good, or to overpay pending UFAs. Because of this, every good team in the league has own rentals. The people who pretend it's exclusive to the Leafs are bizarre, and they would also be the first ones to complain about Dubas overpaying Hyman if he gave him the same contract that Edmonton did

Who is saying that this is exclusive to TOR?

 

[zeke]

Knowledge passed on in this thread:

1. Lou used to be TOR's GM
2. Other teams use own rentals too

Correct.

You are complaining about something that happens to every single team in the league for some reason.

 

[ottomaddox]

Correct.

You are complaining about something that happens to every single team in the league for some reason.

I am passing on what was said in Leafs Hour SN. That it was significant. That Bunkis and Bourne echo my belief that Rielly will likely walk, and Dubas will get nothing for him.

I like Rielly. I think he's valuable. I would hate to lose him because so much money is allocated to 4 forwards. I would hate to lose him because Dubas is going to likely act like a Lame Duck GM.

Defenses aside, what do you think Dubas will do with Rielly?

 

[zeke]

I am passing on what was said in Leafs Hour SN. That it was significant. That Bunkis and Bourne echo my belief that Rielly will likely walk, and Dubas will get nothing for him.

I like Rielly. I think he's valuable. I would hate to lose him because so much money is allocated to 4 forwards. I would hate to lose him because Dubas is going to likely act like a Lame Duck GM.

Defenses aside, what do you think Dubas will do with Rielly?

Yes I know you are repeating talking heads talking points.

Their talking points are wrong, and dumb, and designed only to make you angry.

 

[Guided by Veseys]

Yes the team is so horrible they should trade off their number one D before the season starts. I want to be accepting of your masochistic fetish, but the logic here seems a bit put on.

 

[ottomaddox]

Correct.

You are complaining about something that happens to every single team in the league for some reason.

I couldn't just say that Dubas is trending towards possibly doing an own rental with Rielly, and not state the reasons why this trend exists.

 

[ottomaddox]

Yes the team is so horrible they should trade off their number one D before the season starts. I want to be accepting of your masochistic fetish, but the logic here seems a bit put on.

I already stated that I like Rielly.

Also,

a leaf fan

 

[Mickey Marner]

Dubas didn't become GM until after JVR, Komorov and Bozak were pending free agents, so I'll give him a pass on those. Letting Rielly walk would be beyond the pale though. Ultimately this phenomenon falls on Shanahan for hiring successive GMs with greatly contrasting philosophies. It bled into the trade front as well with the Marleau and Zaitsev deals. Clearly the Shanaplan was garbage and he should've been axed no less than a year ago, but we always wait until irreparable damage is done before firing people.

 

[darrylsittler27]

This team has no chance of winning a cup with that backend. They may not even make the playoffs. TD decision but stop torturing Leaf fans with rebuilds.This season is lost and Mathews will want out.

Trade Reilly for a dman and move on.

 

[Advanced stats]

Freddy Andersen
Zack Hyman
JVR
Tyler Bozak
Leo Komarov
Jake Gardiner
Ron Hainsey
Roman Polak
Tyson Barrie

Every single one of those guys got a sweet contract that looked bad in the short term and mostly awful in the long run.

This actually kinda shows that Toronto has good scouting and makes good decisions on who to let go

 

[Advanced stats]

I couldn't just say that Dubas is trending towards possibly doing an own rental with Rielly, and not state the reasons why this trend exists.

It's hardly a trend, when you include washed up trash player in it. (Hainsey, Polak, Komorov...)

That's like saying Matthews is going to walk because Brian Boyle and Nik Petan walked

 

[ottomaddox]

It's hardly a trend, when you include washed up trash player in it. (Hainsey, Polak, Komorov...)

That's like saying Matthews is going to walk because Brian Boyle and Nik Petan walked

No it's not. Not even if I were to hide behind a fake account would I state this.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Every single one of those guys got a sweet contract that looked bad in the short term and mostly awful in the long run.

This actually kinda shows that Toronto has good scouting and makes good decisions on who to let go

It doesn't mean they made good decisions letting these guys walk for nothing instead of trading them and getting something back for them.

 

[Leafs1991]

Kyle Dubas has been Assistant GM since July 2014. I don't know why he held a title like that and had nothing to do with managing the team. Something tells me he did manage the team.

The issue is not a one way street. I agree. A GM has to know when to add because their team is contending, or knows when to move on from UFAs. The one GM gets nothing in return, but does get playoff success. The other doesn't something in return, but no playoffs (or no playoff success). Shanny, Lou, Dubas all seemed to not get a good read on this team. Dubas especially who's moved 1st round picks like they are going out of style, and no playoff success (sometimes no playoffs).

Sure you can split hairs, but Shanny is the common thread then. So why does Shanny allow UFAs to walk so much?

An AGM does not run the team nor does he have final say in who stays and who goes.

 

[Leaf Fans]

It doesn't mean they made good decisions letting these guys walk for nothing instead of trading them and getting something back for them.

It doesn't mean that they were good decisions, but you would need an alternative history to compare that with, and the result of trading each player may have been different.

 

[Leaf Fans]

An AGM does not run the team nor does he have final say in who stays and who goes.

But if you are irrational and d you have little concern for facts, you can claim that AGM does.

 

[Gary Nylund]

It doesn't mean that they were good decisions, but you would need an alternative history to compare that with, and the result of trading each player may have been different.

Seeing as the reason you keep "own rentals" is that you're hoping for playoff success and that's something we've never had with this core, the alternative history would have been pretty much what it is now except that we'd have more assets. Hard to see that working out badly for us.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Seeing as the reason you keep "own rentals" is that you're hoping for playoff success and that's something we've never had with this core, the alternative history would have been pretty much what it is now except that we'd have more assets. Hard to see that working out badly for us.

We might have more assets. We might have some assets we might have something entirely different. We are talking about something that didn't happen. However, to really understand which choice is better. We need hindsight ( we have that for our oun rentals) and we need to experience an existence where we traded those players for picks or prospects or a combination of them.

 

[CincoHolio]

I mean Barrie was replaced by Brodie, so no complaints there. The thing is, as has been mentioned a few times, the team has held higher aspirations in the playoffs than the results bore out so, not so sure there was another path to be taken.

On Rielly specifically however, I don't disagree that they can not let him just walk. Rielly should not be in the same sentence as all of those other UFAs, as far as value goes, and absolutely should not be lost for nothing.

 

[Gary Nylund]

We might have more assets. We might have some assets we might have something entirely different. We are talking about something that didn't happen. However, to really understand which choice is better. We need hindsight ( we have that for our oun rentals) and we need to experience an existence where we traded those players for picks or prospects or a combination of them.

Sure I get what you're saying, it's a cute theoretical argument and you could make that argument for every decision any team has ever made. Feel free to make that argument next time someone brings up what an awful signing Clarkson was - we can't experience that alternate existence where we didn't sign him so how do we know, right?

Cute theory, but I'm comfortable saying is that it's difficult to see how how we'd be worse off being in the same situation, except with more assets.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I mean Barrie was replaced by Brodie, so no complaints there. The thing is, as has been mentioned a few times, the team has held higher aspirations in the playoffs than the results bore out so, not so sure there was another path to be taken.

On Rielly specifically however, I don't disagree that they can not let him just walk. Rielly should not be in the same sentence as all of those other UFAs, as far as value goes, and absolutely should not be lost for nothing.

We can, and we will!

 

[Leaf Fans]

Sure I get what you're saying, it's a cute theoretical argument and you could make that argument for every decision any team has ever made. Feel free to make that argument next time someone brings up what an awful signing Clarkson was - we can't experience that alternate existence where we didn't sign him so how do we know, right?

Cute theory, but I'm comfortable saying is that it's difficult to see how how we'd be worse off being in the same situation, except with more assets.

You lost me. What are you talking about now?

 

[All Mod Cons]

I wonder if we will "own rental" Matthews, or if a decision will be made prior? Makes you wonder eh?