Speculation: A Pretty Long List of 'Own Rentals' (those that have walked to UFA). Trending...

[Stephen]

I agree with the OP in general theory, the Leafs really could have managed their outgoing free agents a little better over the years and maybe delayed their shift into aspiring contender status a little later than they did.

Colorado showed quite a bit of foresight in offloading a soon to be UFA in Tyson Barrie for multiple years of Kadri. I think if the Leafs had managed to be a little more ruthless and cut bait on some combination of Gardiner, JVR and Bozak we might have a little more ammunition today.

On the other hand, the hard cap system means cap space is an asset itself. So while you might bemoan the loss of any outgoing UFA, you also have to consider the fact that money gets spent on incoming free agents like TJ Brodie. So as long as the Leafs are spending their cash on the right people and dollar amount, you're not necessarily bleeding out talent as the list might imply.

 

[Torontonian]

Colorado Own Rentals

Grubauer
Varlamov
Saad
Donskoi
Comeau
Bellemare
Nemeth
Namestnikov

Pretty much this.. Good teams or teams that think they can compete in the playoffs don't trade away from their own roster because they are a UFA.

 

[Torontonian]

I agree with the OP in general theory, the Leafs really could have managed their outgoing free agents a little better over the years and maybe delayed their shift into aspiring contender status a little later than they did.

Colorado showed quite a bit of foresight in offloading a soon to be UFA in Tyson Barrie for multiple years of Kadri. I think if the Leafs had managed to be a little more ruthless and cut bait on some combination of Gardiner, JVR and Bozak we might have a little more ammunition today.

On the other hand, the hard cap system means cap space is an asset itself. So while you might bemoan the loss of any outgoing UFA, you also have to consider the fact that money gets spent on incoming free agents like TJ Brodie. So as long as the Leafs are spending their cash on the right people and dollar amount, you're not necessarily bleeding out talent as the list might imply.

They traded Barrie for years on Kadri but also gave up Kerfoot who was a cost controlled asset for them as well. It wasn't like we swapped Kadri for just one year of Barrie. The thought at the time when we traded Kadri for Barrie and Kerfoot was the right one at the time IMO, We had two centreman ahead of Kadri and desperately needed a RHD. It just sucked Barrie played as poorly as he did for us, the trade wouldn't have looked that bad if he could have even put up some numbers in the offensive end, but he was just bad in the O-zone and putrid in the D-zone.

 

[The Iceman]

If you are a playoff team and are buyers at the deadline, the players you acquire are almost for sure going to be UFAs.
The cycle of life. Bad teams sell, good teams buy.

The outrage would happen if Dubas sold UFA assets every deadline.

 

[Gary Nylund]

You lost me. What are you talking about now?

Just answering your post, I thought it was pretty straightforward. Which part are you having trouble with?

I agree with the OP in general theory, the Leafs really could have managed their outgoing free agents a little better over the years and maybe delayed their shift into aspiring contender status a little later than they did.

Colorado showed quite a bit of foresight in offloading a soon to be UFA in Tyson Barrie for multiple years of Kadri. I think if the Leafs had managed to be a little more ruthless and cut bait on some combination of Gardiner, JVR and Bozak we might have a little more ammunition today.

On the other hand, the hard cap system means cap space is an asset itself. So while you might bemoan the loss of any outgoing UFA, you also have to consider the fact that money gets spent on incoming free agents like TJ Brodie. So as long as the Leafs are spending their cash on the right people and dollar amount, you're not necessarily bleeding out talent as the list might imply.

Good job of showing that there are many things to consider and I agree we could have done a better job over the last few years. You make a good point that when someone walks, that opens up cap space, I would only add that incoming free agents are typically overpaid so banking on that isn't ideal. We did very well indeed with Brodie but that's more the exception than the rule.

 

[ottomaddox]

Pretty much this.. Good teams or teams that think they can compete in the playoffs don't trade away from their own roster because they are a UFA.

Maybe. I mean TOR has been doing their own rentals since Matthews was a rookie. Were they a good team then? Were they a good team going up against CBJ during the play-in series? Compound these own rentals with the amount of 1st round draft picks that have been traded away. All will be forgiven if Dubas can deliver a cup, but TOR hasn't even won a playoff series.

 

[The Iceman]

This team has no chance of winning a cup with that backend. They may not even make the playoffs. TD decision but stop torturing Leaf fans with rebuilds.This season is lost and Mathews will want out.

Trade Reilly for a dman and move on.

I would argue last years D was the best Leafs D since Macoun, Lefevbre, Ellett, Rouse, Gill, Mironov.
THIS SEASON IS LOST...WHAT, we lost our backup goalie, 6th D and Hyman, hardly grounds for a rebuild.

 

[New Liskeard]

...towards letting Rielly walk too. This was speculated by both Justin Bourne and JD Bunkis (SN Leafs Hour Aug 5th). That Dubas might be losing his job, so he's going to hang on to Rielly until his contract runs out. In doing so he risks not re-signing him and losing him to another team.

Here's some of the significant players that have walked at the end of their contract:

Freddy Andersen
Zack Hyman
JVR
Tyler Bozak
Leo Komarov
Jake Gardiner
Ron Hainsey
Roman Polak
Tyson Barrie

Please feel free to add to my list if I missed someone.

I know there is still time, but I don't trust KD. He is a man of his word. He can't possibly keep the big 4 and rielly.

What do you think is going to happen?

Might as well add all the players that came in for "free" as well. The notion of players leaving for free is wrong, as the asset of cap space is used elsewhere. If you are going to talk about players that left, make sure to include the ones that came in like Tavares, or Brodie or Mik. BTW, the goal is to win the cup, not trade players away just before the playoffs in case they "leave" for nothing. A very simple and straightforward scenario, some have a challenge comprehending.

 

[New Liskeard]

I would argue last years D was the best Leafs D since Macoun, Lefevbre, Ellett, Rouse, Gill, Mironov.
THIS SEASON IS LOST...WHAT, we lost our backup goalie, 6th D and Hyman, hardly grounds for a rebuild.

Well said!

 

[Torontonian]

Maybe. I mean TOR has been doing their own rentals since Matthews was a rookie. Were they a good team then? Were they a good team going up against CBJ during the play-in series? Compound these own rentals with the amount of 1st round draft picks that have been traded away. All will forgiven if Dubas can deliver a cup, but TOR hasn't even won a playoff series.

As soon as we got Matthews we went from last place in the NHL to the 2nd wildcard spot. I don't think many fans would have been happy selling off our UFA's after our 3 young promising rookies battled all year to be in a position to make the playoffs. If I recall as well... Lou was the GM of that team and traded a 2nd for Boyle and then the following year traded a 2nd for Plekanec.

The CBJ play in was a disappointment but to me that season was a write off as they were off for four months and then go right into playoffs. At least with that play in series we finally have a "epic" playoff moment to remember, coming back down from 3-0 with 5 mins left.

 

[Stephen]

They traded Barrie for years on Kadri but also gave up Kerfoot who was a cost controlled asset for them as well. It wasn't like we swapped Kadri for just one year of Barrie. The thought at the time when we traded Kadri for Barrie and Kerfoot was the right one at the time IMO, We had two centreman ahead of Kadri and desperately needed a RHD. It just sucked Barrie played as poorly as he did for us, the trade wouldn't have looked that bad if he could have even put up some numbers in the offensive end, but he was just bad in the O-zone and putrid in the D-zone.

Kerfoot isn’t terribly important in the whole sequence though. If we could have turned Gardiner, a little retention and Connor Brown, let’s say, into a second line center with 3 years of service time that’s like have been a great deal.

On the other, other hand, Kadri turned into Barrie (and Kerfoot) and then turned into TJ Brodie, so it’s not like the Leafs have nothing to show for that sequence. If anything they accomplished what they wanted and that’s a long term defensive upgrade at a similar cost to Kadri.

 

[vpasla1]

Other playoff teams don't have UFAs on the roster I guess. If you look at the other 15 teams in the playoffs the last few years, you could probably find a few key pieces every year, for every team. It's the nature of how sports works. When you're good, you don't sell.

 

[Gabriel426]

Playoff success = own rentals

If Leafs continue to get knock out in the first round, they should never have own rentals.

Knowing the Leafs, they will always look great in the regular season and choke in the playoffs( that’s the trend for now). But don’t worry the advanced stats would say the Leafs played great, only if the other team goalies didn’t make any saves or other teams best players didn’t show up, the Leafs would have advanced due to the dominance in advance stats.

 

[ottomaddox]

Might as well add all the players that came in for "free" as well. The notion of players leaving for free is wrong, as the asset of cap space is used elsewhere. If you are going to talk about players that left, make sure to include the ones that came in like Tavares, or Brodie or Mik. BTW, the goal is to win the cup, not trade players away just before the playoffs in case they "leave" for nothing. A very simple and straightforward scenario, some have a challenge comprehending.

No one is leaving for free. Also nothing comes in for free.

What are you talking about?

I'm having a hard time comprehending your post.

 

[AvroArrow]

...towards letting Rielly walk too. This was speculated by both Justin Bourne and JD Bunkis (SN Leafs Hour Aug 5th). That Dubas might be losing his job, so he's going to hang on to Rielly until his contract runs out. In doing so he risks not re-signing him and losing him to another team.

Here's some of the significant players that have walked at the end of their contract:

Freddy Andersen
Zack Hyman
JVR
Tyler Bozak
Leo Komarov
Jake Gardiner
Ron Hainsey
Roman Polak
Tyson Barrie

Please feel free to add to my list if I missed someone.

I know there is still time, but I don't trust KD. He is a man of his word. He can't possibly keep the big 4 and rielly.

What do you think is going to happen?

The bolded were all absolute garbage and needed to go. The other guys actually gave this team a chance to compete.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Who is saying that this is exclusive to TOR?

You. Literally creating an unneeded thread and replying to everyone like you’re personally offended no one agrees with you. good teams let good/ok players contracts lapse, in part to cycle thru and find the right mix, and also because you can’t just sell off quality players when trying to compete. You can’t be half pregnant, either you’re in or out.

I am passing on what was said in Leafs Hour SN. That it was significant. That Bunkis and Bourne echo my belief that Rielly will likely walk, and Dubas will get nothing for him.

I like Rielly. I think he's valuable. I would hate to lose him because so much money is allocated to 4 forwards. I would hate to lose him because Dubas is going to likely act like a Lame Duck GM.

Defenses aside, what do you think Dubas will do with Rielly?

He wouldnt be lost for nothing, we’d gain the $5m in cap space that he’s taking up. If you trade him you’re probably taking back salary, potentially with longer term attached which eats into your ability to find a suitable replacement.
Good teams lose good players every season. Boston let Tory Krug walk, St. Louis let petro walk, that’s kinda how UFA works… guys contracts expire and teams try to find more ideal fits for their team.

 

[Nylanderthal]

The bolded were all absolute garbage and needed to go. The other guys actually gave this team a chance to compete.

Love me some uncle Leo, but by the time his time here was ending and really most of his time on the island he’s been bad and mostly unplayable, but go off.

 

[Nylanderthal]

I wonder if we will "own rental" Matthews, or if a decision will be made prior? Makes you wonder eh?

Not even a little bit

 

[Nylanderthal]

Playoff success = own rentals

If Leafs continue to get knock out in the first round, they should never have own rentals.

Knowing the Leafs, they will always look great in the regular season and choke in the playoffs( that’s the trend for now). But don’t worry the advanced stats would say the Leafs played great, only if the other team goalies didn’t make any saves or other teams best players didn’t show up, the Leafs would have advanced due to the dominance in advance stats.

How do you know if you’ll have playoff success or not at the trade deadline? I mean I guess you unload your better players on expiring deals every year and ensure no playoff success.

 

[Gabriel426]

How do you know if you’ll have playoff success or not at the trade deadline? I mean I guess you unload your better players on expiring deals every year and ensure no playoff success.

Well, if the Leafs is fighting for a playoffs spot around the TDL, don’t think they should keep their own rentals.

 

[Bluelines]

Is there a point to this thread?

Yes its to have people ask, edgy questions like "What is the point to this thread?".

 

[Racer88]

Maybe. I mean TOR has been doing their own rentals since Matthews was a rookie. Were they a good team then? Were they a good team going up against CBJ during the play-in series? Compound these own rentals with the amount of 1st round draft picks that have been traded away. All will be forgiven if Dubas can deliver a cup, but TOR hasn't even won a playoff series.

The problem is leafs management overrated the team and thought they were contenders much like Burkie did when he traded for Kessel

 

[Bluelines]

...towards letting Rielly walk too. This was speculated by both Justin Bourne and JD Bunkis (SN Leafs Hour Aug 5th). That Dubas might be losing his job, so he's going to hang on to Rielly until his contract runs out. In doing so he risks not re-signing him and losing him to another team.

Here's some of the significant players that have walked at the end of their contract:

Freddy Andersen
Zack Hyman
JVR
Tyler Bozak
Leo Komarov
Jake Gardiner
Ron Hainsey
Roman Polak
Tyson Barrie

Please feel free to add to my list if I missed someone.

I know there is still time, but I don't trust KD. He is a man of his word. He can't possibly keep the big 4 and rielly.

What do you think is going to happen?

Some of these guys were a mess here but at the same time, some of those guys are still playing in the NHL, meaning they have perceived value to other GM's, which means we let and asset walk for no return.

Even if you got low picks, 2nd, 3rd, 4ths for some of these guys, you still have assets that you can use at TDL to pick up players to help with your future playoff runs.

I've never been a fan of the "own rental", you want he young guys to learn but you have "own rentals" in positions of responsibility that prevent them from learning, I'm a big fan of pushing that baby out of the nest and making them fly or hit the ground. No teacher like failure and the feeling of disapointment.

Ceci
Bogo
I guess you could put Brown down, he was traded for a bag of pucks for cap space.
Fehr
Gauthier
Leivo
Marleau
Martin
Moore
Plekanec
McElhinney
Pickard
Ennis
Petan
Ozhiganov
Sparks
Aberg
Clifford
Shore
Kaskisuo
Jumbo

 

[ottomaddox]

You. Literally creating an unneeded thread and replying to everyone like you’re personally offended no one agrees with you. good teams let good/ok players contracts lapse, in part to cycle thru and find the right mix, and also because you can’t just sell off quality players when trying to compete. You can’t be half pregnant, either you’re in or out.

He wouldnt be lost for nothing, we’d gain the $5m in cap space that he’s taking up. If you trade him you’re probably taking back salary, potentially with longer term attached which eats into your ability to find a suitable replacement.
Good teams lose good players every season. Boston let Tory Krug walk, St. Louis let petro walk, that’s kinda how UFA works… guys contracts expire and teams try to find more ideal fits for their team.

I think you're talking about yourself here.

You're right though. You can't be halfway pregnant. It's split into trimesters.

 

[Bluelines]

Pretty much this.. Good teams or teams that think they can compete in the playoffs don't trade away from their own roster because they are a UFA.

Good GM's can have foresight and make tough decisions, its easy to keep JVR, Bozak, Gardiner, Andersen and let them walk for nothing, what is tough is saying I don't think this team has what to takes to make a run at the cup and trade these guys today, so tomorrows team is better. It's called asset management. I forget which GM said it is the worst thing a GM can do is fall in love with his players and over estimate their abilities... Dubas his guys a little too much...

It's a simple question, keeping all those "own rentals" helped next years team how?