There is no way the Leafs win the cup with that backend. If Muzzin goes down they are soft as butter. If they even make the playoffs.
Speculation: A Pretty Long List of 'Own Rentals' (those that have walked to UFA). Trending...
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Bluelines
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Question how did Colorado do in the season after Grubauer, Donskoi, Saad, Comeau, Bellemare, Nemeth left the team?
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He'd be better than any another rental we could find. Same with Nylander. I bet Kyle does it.
Gary Nylund
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You still gain the cap space if you trade for futures and that's what they should have done with JVR (IMO the most obvious example).
Good teams lose players but they also sometimes trade players approaching UFA status even if they are going to make the playoffs so let's not pretend like that's not an option for our team.
These are tough decisions to make. Considering we haven't traded at the TDL to gain futures in a number of years, we've even gone the opposite route by letting many players walk to UFA status and trading away futures ourselves and we have nothing to show for it in the way of playoff success, it seems fair to question the path we've taken. Continue down this path and our cupboards will be bare pretty soon. That might be OK if we have a cup to show for it but we have yet to win even one round.
Seems pretty obvious to me that Dubas has overestimated how good this team is and until we show we can compete in the playoffs, he should stop mortgaging the future hoping to go deep.
Dayjobdave
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Unless there is a pre camp blockbuster deal where Rielly gets moved, he will only be dealt if we are out of the playoffs.
Even then, it sti has to be ownerships directive to get into the playoffs. I can’t see him moved for futures.
Even then, it sti has to be ownerships directive to get into the playoffs. I can’t see him moved for futures.
ottomaddox
Registered User
It's ok to disagree. But many people are stuck on the list I posted. Forget my opinion for a second.
What do you think Kyle Dubas will do with Morgan Rielly?
What do you think Kyle Dubas will do with Morgan Rielly?
ShaneFalco
Registered User
The problem is they've kept their own rentals and have had no success whastover. And traded picks to try and make a playoff run - again with no success whatsoever
It will entirely depend on how the team looks closer to the deadline. It’s pointless to try and guess without seeing how the team performs going up to it.
Bluelines
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I think he signs him, at what rate , hard to tell, Makar got 9 mil, Reilly is probably not in that range, so less than 9 mil? For me a responsible manager would be talking to Rielly now, find out his demands, see if the ask is reasonable and if you can fit it under the current cap, not projected cap, sign him, if not trade him before the season begins. Rilleys contract situation is goign to be a needless distraction for the team.
ottomaddox
Registered User
This does bring up a similar topic: What kind of GM is Dubas? Does he take risks or is he conservative in his approach?
I read this as Dubas not being much of a risk taker, and will likely go with what the GM Handbook "Somehow I Manage" says.
So we should trade our guys at the deadline to get assets to spend on other guys at the deadline?
Bluelines
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If you team has no chance to win, yeah, why keep assets to let them walk and make it harder to win when your team is ready to win. Trade an Andersen for a guy to develop in our system. JVR/Bozak trades would be maturing right about now. Asset management is not a fringe idea, well run franchises do it properly. Poorly run franchises do it the Leaf way.
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Every example you listed the player's final season was in a clear "Buy" season with a 100+ point, top 5-7 regular season team.
" you still have assets that you can use at TDL to pick up players to help with your future playoff runs."
It's effectively arguing for zero-sum asset neutral roster churn at the deadline, not asset management.
For perspective, there wasn't a single playoff team that sold off a pending UFA last year.
ACC1224
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I imagine like any GM he won’t make a decision on what he’ll do at the deadline before the season begins.This does bring up a similar topic: What kind of GM is Dubas? Does he take risks or is he conservative in his approach?
I read this as Dubas not being much of a risk taker, and will likely go with what the GM Handbook "Somehow I Manage" says.
Bluelines
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Every example eh?
Ceci
Bogo
I guess you could put Brown down, he was traded for a bag of pucks for cap space.
Fehr
Gauthier
Leivo
Marleau
Martin
Moore
Plekanec
McElhinney
Pickard
Ennis
Petan
Ozhiganov
Sparks
Aberg
Clifford
Shore
Kaskisuo
Jumbo
Bogo
I guess you could put Brown down, he was traded for a bag of pucks for cap space.
Fehr
Gauthier
Leivo
Marleau
Martin
Moore
Plekanec
McElhinney
Pickard
Ennis
Petan
Ozhiganov
Sparks
Aberg
Clifford
Shore
Kaskisuo
Jumbo
Bluelines
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For perspective 15 out of 16 GM's made the wrong decision.
ottomaddox
Registered User
So true, but I'm sure there are GM's that have a feel for a player (and the likelihood of re-signing). Those proactive GMs likely acted early.
The post I replied to listed Andersen JVR and Bozak.
but fine
Fehr - we traded for a 7th
Gauthier- waiver fodder
Leivo - traded because coach wouldn't play him
Marleau- cap dump
Martin - expired after a "Buy" season
Moore- expired after a "Buy" season
Plekanec - was a deadline buy
McElhinney - expired after a "Buy" season
Pickard - lost to waivers, didn't expire
Ennis - Buy season
Petan - waiver fodder
Ozhiganov - back to europe
Sparks - waiver fodder
Clifford - was a deadline buy
Aberg - waiver fodder
Shore - waiver fodder (lost to waivers)
Kaskisuo- waiver fodder
Jumbo- "buy" season"
This list makes even less sense, it's either run of the mill turnover from organizational tweeners, players we acquired at the deadline, or players that we kept in buying years, plus a guy we actually traded away.
The only really questionable (from the concept of asset management, not getting granular into the price paid, fit etc) decisions were the 17 deadline and 2020 deadline.
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Bluelines
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So you think losing is OK? Good thing your nota GM. This is just me but if you didn't win , you didn't make the correct decision. But you do you.
ACC1224
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I would assume they believe they will re-sign him. I doubt it's really much of a concern right now.
Bluelines
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So what you are saying is Dubas has done a poor job of talent development, retention and acquisitions, if all these guys are as invaluable as you say, how can we be in a buy situation? How can these guys have any value to our cup run if they are mostly waiver fodder? What would it hurt to get assets for something that has no value?
No what I'm saying is that you're throwing shit at the wall to try and and make a non-point stick. Every organization has depth churn (a sizable portion of your list), every organization retains their expiring contributors when they're solidly in a playoff position (another sizable portion), and the vast majority acquire players to help at the deadline (the rest).
The 2nd for Boyle, and not trading Polak/Hunwick when we were a wildcard team- sure. Questionable asset management, arguments to be made both ways.
Not liquidating Barrie/Ceci when the decision was made that the team wasn't worthy of deadline reinforcement- sure. Questionable asset management, arguments to be made both ways.
The rest of the list? Nonsense born of a ridiculous and unprecedented (not to mention destructive) standard for value extraction.
