The cupboards are not bare. They are actually quite healthy, especially for a team that is not getting top picks. Our prospect pool stretches beyond just Sandin, Liljegren, ad Robertson, but they are very good prospects, not "fringe NHL" prospects.
Speculation: A Pretty Long List of 'Own Rentals' (those that have walked to UFA). Trending...
- Thread starter ottomaddox
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We have about 5-6 million dollars of combined overpayment on our pt/game superstar players. the rest of the roster is completely fair value. We would have spent that 5-6 million on retaining Kappy and Johnsson. Hardly makes us more threatening. We need our superstars to play like superstars in the playoffs if we have any chance at winning. Can TB win B2B if point and kuch go f***ing absent? doesn't f***ing matter what depth they have. You need your stars to perform. They have not at this point. Hard to blame a GM for not believing in this core 4. Almost every GM in the league would do the same. Included the almighty Lou
And lets not forget that the projected cap was supposed to be around 88 million this coming season, which would have aligned perfectly in retaining some of these own rentals. Every team was negatively impacted by the pandemic, but I'd say few had as many challenges as us given we had just resigned our core the season prior. Its unfortunate, but they've done a good job at pivoting IMO
The amount of poopy diaper's in here is kind of pathetic. We are still a very talented team with a host of young prospects on the cusp of cracking the lineup. Believe it or not, its not all doom and gloom. We all would have expected results by now, but I just am not sure I can find it in me to blame a GM for a pandemic induced flat cap, and his superstar players consistently showing improvement year over year but just not in the playoffs...
ya you're not wrong, but I mean its pretty f***ing easy to have unbelievable prospect depth when you select in the top 10 in 4 of 5 years leading up to that stretch of time. This management group has traded away a ton of high picks to compete, and the ones they don't are considerably higher in each round than they had ever been in the cap era. Despite all that, we have really solid depth in our prospect pool and some players with star potential.
we had a top 5 defense in the entire league last year, without Sandin and Lilly. Despite being in the division that was known for high flying offence. I am looking at the same roster as you dude.
Robertson would have been on the roster had he not got hurt. He returned only to play the minimum allowable games to roll over his ELC contract to the start of this season.
They have been considerably boxed out.
So what do you do then? Trade Rielly for what? Replace him with what? If we have a shot at the playoffs which we probably do you are ok with weakening the team so we can get some futures? Name teams who were playoff bound that traded their #1 dman who was set to become a ufa or forwards for that matter. I'm not the biggest Rielly fan myself but this idea that Dubas is the only Gm who lets good players walk for nothing is fiction and is bias in nature.
Bluelines
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Bluelines
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He would have been sent to the farm had he no got hurt, did you not see him chasing the game, he was thinking slow, reacting slow... he was WAAAAAYYYYY out of his depth. When he came back, he was promptly sent down because his mind did not think the game at a NHL level.
We had a top 5 defence with out Sandin/Lilly, are you suggesting that we would have been better? Did you not see Sandin chasing the play in the Playoffs, how his foot speed was terrible?
how many star roles can a team have? like by the sounds of it the winning formula for you is to have 12 pt/game forwards and 4x 50 pt defensemen lol
there is only so much PP time and top 6/top pairing minutes to go around.
Does Bo Byrom not have star potential because he is not a permanent fixture in COL lineup? he surely should be playing PP1 by now right? What a bust. Same with that Newhook kid. f*** I can't believe what a wasted pick that was for COL. Easily should be in that star studded lineup by now....
Bluelines
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How many did Tampa have? What does Colorado's lineup have to do with ours? Strawman much?
I'm not sure how one could argue that we suck at drafting and developing prospects, and simultaneously argue that we need to throw away competitive seasons to obtain draft picks and prospects.
The leafs were having stellar regular seasons so it made sense not to trade away guys who were part of that heading into the playoffs. The problem is we now have hindsight and we can see we were not ready to take the next step but at the time we all thought we were almost there. Not advancing or having playoff success several years in a row now is creating a lot of doubt in our minds as to where we really are. If we think that this team can't go to the next level as it is then Rielly must be traded now but if you think we can do some damage then I don't see how you can get rid of him unless we are bringing in someone pretty good to replace him.Good GM's can have foresight and make tough decisions, its easy to keep JVR, Bozak, Gardiner, Andersen and let them walk for nothing, what is tough is saying I don't think this team has what to takes to make a run at the cup and trade these guys today, so tomorrows team is better. It's called asset management. I forget which GM said it is the worst thing a GM can do is fall in love with his players and over estimate their abilities... Dubashis guys a little too much...
It's a simple question, keeping all those "own rentals" helped next years team how?
if you remember correctly, Roberston played 3 shifts before sustaining a fairly significant leg injury that had him out for a very lengthy period of time. He came back and was visibly weak, even at the AHL level. He never really did gain his step back. Despite all that he managed to amass 16pts in 21gp. Which is relatively on par with say Cole Perfetti in his first pro season. Who most would suggest has star potential as well.
I am not going to try to convince you anymore that the sky is not falling. You seem quite content being in that position.
Remember this is not a video game. 2 people have to agree to a trade. Superstar for Superstar deals just don't happen in this league. The only people that live in the world of "if if's and buts were candy and nuts" are the folks that think this shit is possible
This thread lacks common sense. When do contending teams ever trade free agents? The last two teams put out we had a higher ambitions than a first round exit so..
I think this is it...keeping them wasn't really the problem. It has been the lack of success that has really hurt. If we had advanced in any of those seasons, nobody would have a problem with keeping pending ufa's however, how long can we keep our own rentals and give up picks without advancing in the playoffs without changing course somewhat? I think that time is quickly approaching.
you said "Where do these star potential players play in our lineup this year?"
You are suggesting the star potential players I have listed (roberston, Lilly, Sandin) should be in our lineup, no?
I made a comparison to COL, who has star potential prospects that were not part of their lineup this year, and when they were, they did not make a significant impact.
I really don't think that's a strawman argument at all. Its just illustrating how hard it is for 20 year old's to crack a Stanley Cup worthy roster. It's not that they are busts.
That Robertson is seen as an NHL roster option that disappointed rather than a high flying top prospect that *might* have gotten a couple games out of camp to show what he needs to work on is 100% a fluke driven by Covid.
He's a 2nd rounder that just finished his U20 year. He should be starting in the A this year. Doesn't change his potential.
Sandin just finished his U21. Should have been the 1st year of his ELC, but his play in the A warranted a long NHL look at 19. He has some physical hurdles to overcome, but again, just played his 20 year old season.
Liljegren a year older, but if you look at an organization that has had a fantastic run of developing D men, (the Isles) giving up on dmen at 22 would have tanked them.
He's a 2nd rounder that just finished his U20 year. He should be starting in the A this year. Doesn't change his potential.
Sandin just finished his U21. Should have been the 1st year of his ELC, but his play in the A warranted a long NHL look at 19. He has some physical hurdles to overcome, but again, just played his 20 year old season.
Liljegren a year older, but if you look at an organization that has had a fantastic run of developing D men, (the Isles) giving up on dmen at 22 would have tanked them.
ACC1224
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and if they hadn't made moves and the result was the same these same posters would be arguing the other side of the coin.
This was also what you said to suggest these Star potential players should be making a higher impact already.
There really has been nothing I have said in response that could be viewed as strawman...
ShaneFalco
Registered User
ottomaddox
Registered User
Not exclusive.
I believe you have me pegged as someone who wants to discuss hockey.
ottomaddox
Registered User
I've already stated that I like Rielly.
If he gets moved then so be it. I just hope Dubas gets something for him.
Ignorance over our prospect pool behind us, a summer Rielly trade should be made if someone is going to give us full "core player with term" value in a sign and trade, and we have faith in Dermott/Sandin to step up as 2nd/3rd pair LD OR have someone in mind that we can bring in for a fraction of what we got for Rielly, at lower cap hit.
But not trading him for straight rental value before the season starts isn't something to be mad about, nor is keeping him if we're in good shape at the deadline
But not trading him for straight rental value before the season starts isn't something to be mad about, nor is keeping him if we're in good shape at the deadline
Gary Nylund
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It's not all gloom and doom but since playoffs are what it's all about, the fact that we've had zero success there is an issue, the fact that we don't seem to even show up for series deciding games is a huge issue and that is what most concerns me. If it doesn't bother you, that's great and I'm happy for you but mocking others for expressing their concern seems pretty dumb.
I am actually baffled how our fans are already writing off our prospects. We got spoiled by Matthews, Marner that we think every 18-19 year old has to score 70+ points otherwise they suck
Most D takes 3-4 years before they are good. There are always the exception ones like Doughtey and others.
Sandin only played 30 NHL games so far Robertsson 20 games
So we are writing them off based on a playoff series?
Gary Nylund
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Are people really writing off guys like Sandin and Robertson? Pretty nutso if true.
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