A Comprehensive Review of the Kyle Dubas Era

[hockeywiz542]

I’ll send you an invite to the next Stonecutter’s meeting but don’t tell anyone here.

 

[ACC1224]

That looks more like the after party down at the D.D.L. after the bad man Babcock was run out of town.

 

[ToDavid]

Squandering MLSE money and resources, but his shills claiming he didn't have enough control to do his job well, yeah right...

It's an insured contract...

I know not everyone liked Dubas but some of this discussion is going off the deep end lol.

 

[Captain Crunch]

No,
I said attempted.

So Lou let Dubas look after that draft, then?

 

[ToDavid]

So far Sea of Blue is the only poster who has attempted an objective comprehensive review.

Calling this post an objective comprehensive review is like calling North Korea a democratic republic. Just because someone wrote down a title, doesn't make it true.

The subheadings of "glaring errors" and "some successes" don't really scream objectivity.

 

[Notsince67]

He may draft well but we actually have only Lilly and a whiff of Knies to base that on. so a bit more time is needed to support that. And because it seemed from the pc that he was saying he was willing to trade from the core doesn't mean he would have, and we don't know if those changes would have been the right ones. Admitting what you did isn't working doesn't mean you know what does work.

Imagine if the improved decision making of the last couple of seasons was negated because Kyle stuck with the wrong coach and they were only a Keefe replacement away from better times. But we don't know if he would even consider that. There is no assumption he would hit on it next year, only that it would be different than this year. Its a good time for some fresh eyes, just as he will be the fresh eyes on his next stop.

Lil was hunters

 

[yubbers]

I think people will soon realize what a "terrible failure" GM actually looks like. We've had no shortage of that in our recent 30 years, and Kyle was not even close to that.

It's funny how there is some who think of Kyle's tenure as a complete failure and that he is the dumbest mind in hockey, yet those same people would likely never refer to Auston, Mitch and Willy as such failures. Yet they share the same, if not more, of the blame in the last 5 seasons.

It is entirely possible for talented players to have seasons that end in failure, but not be complete failures as players. Same goes for General Managers.

Kyle is a very bright hockey mind. He is innovative, and he helped develop a culture that players wanted to play for and represent. I can't remember any former GM being able to get players on team friendly, league minimum deals. Yet that was common place for Kyle. Say what you will about him overpaying our core, he always found a way to round out the roster in a way that was worthy of competing for the Stanley Cup. Ultimately he hitched his wagon to Mitch, Auston, JT, and Willy which was ultimately turned out to be his biggest undoing. Mitch and Auston particularly let him down in those big moments with an alarming regularity. But I got news for you, it didn't matter who was steering the ship these past 5 seasons, those 2 would be in the same place, letting whoever was in charge down when it mattered the most.

I often wonder if the people who criticize Dubas even remember some of our previous GM's...I just don't know how you could even throw Kyle's name into the same basket as JFJ, Fletcher, Nonis, Burke and even Lou. All of those guys were far worse, and left us with far more of a mess to clean up after they left.

I remember them just fine. They never had 1/16th of the talent Dubas was gifted.


You just watched a rookie GM piss away our AM years. And you guys keep clapping. It's quite the sight to witness.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I remember them just fine. They never had 1/16th of the talent Dubas was gifted.


You just watched a rookie GM piss away our AM years. And you guys keep clapping. It's quite the sight to witness.

Dubie thinks analytics is da future of hockey .. it may be in 20 years when it is better understood and we start tracking da right stuff to win a Cup ..but in todays playoffs and in near future it is not da way to build a team .. corsi, puck possession, etc is not da way .. it still comes down IN PLAYOFFS to a game of speed and toughness where you beat your man .. and teams which play best D and have a hot tender WIN .. skill based forwards are great in regular season hockey to make playoffs but they don't win you a Cup

 

[Leaf Fans]

,

Who decides what's 'objective'?

I haven't seen the post but I imagine it's their opinion like everyone else.

I said attempted.

Calling this post an objective comprehensive review is like calling North Korea a democratic republic. Just because someone wrote down a title, doesn't make it true.

The subheadings of "glaring errors" and "some successes" don't really scream objectivity.

The official name of North Korea is

Calling this post an objective comprehensive review is like calling North Korea a democratic republic. Just because someone wrote down a title, doesn't make it true.

The subheadings of "glaring errors" and "some successes" don't really scream objectivity.

The official name of North Korea is the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. However, it has absolutely nothing to do with anything in this thread. I said attempt at an objective comprehensive review and remains that.

So Lou let Dubas look after that draft, then?

I actually somehow quoted you by accident.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Calling this post an objective comprehensive review is like calling North Korea a democratic republic. Just because someone wrote down a title, doesn't make it true.

The subheadings of "glaring errors" and "some successes" don't really scream objectivity.

Feel free to list your version of Dubas' successes and failures so we can assess your "objectivity". I look forward to it.

 

[keonsbitterness]

And I'm asking you why are you shitting on Marchment when we have 3 guys who make almost 3 times more then him and have accomplished the same in more then double the time?

Because I felt he deserved to be shit on.

 

[mikeyz]

Because I felt he deserved to be shit on.

Well, if you feel that way about him, I can’t even imagine what you think of Matthews and Marner in the playoffs. Lol.

I think people will soon realize what a "terrible failure" GM actually looks like. We've had no shortage of that in our recent 30 years, and Kyle was not even close to that.

It's funny how there is some who think of Kyle's tenure as a complete failure and that he is the dumbest mind in hockey, yet those same people would likely never refer to Auston, Mitch and Willy as such failures. Yet they share the same, if not more, of the blame in the last 5 seasons.

It is entirely possible for talented players to have seasons that end in failure, but not be complete failures as players. Same goes for General Managers.

Kyle is a very bright hockey mind. He is innovative, and he helped develop a culture that players wanted to play for and represent. I can't remember any former GM being able to get players on team friendly, league minimum deals. Yet that was common place for Kyle. Say what you will about him overpaying our core, he always found a way to round out the roster in a way that was worthy of competing for the Stanley Cup. Ultimately he hitched his wagon to Mitch, Auston, JT, and Willy which was ultimately turned out to be his biggest undoing. Mitch and Auston particularly let him down in those big moments with an alarming regularity. But I got news for you, it didn't matter who was steering the ship these past 5 seasons, those 2 would be in the same place, letting whoever was in charge down when it mattered the most.

I often wonder if the people who criticize Dubas even remember some of our previous GM's...I just don't know how you could even throw Kyle's name into the same basket as JFJ, Fletcher, Nonis, Burke and even Lou. All of those guys were far worse, and left us with far more of a mess to clean up after they left.

Okay, now compare the rosters to when said “Terrible failure GM’s” had when they took over as opposed to the roster Dubas had when he took over.

Face facts my friend. Dubas was nothing special here. Not even close.

 

[saffronleaf]

Not signing McElhinney and bringing in Sharts

don't you dare talk about sparxxxy that way

 

[saffronleaf]

I remember them just fine. They never had 1/16th of the talent Dubas was gifted.


You just watched a rookie GM piss away our AM years. And you guys keep clapping. It's quite the sight to witness.

we can and we will

 

[JKG33]

I think people will soon realize what a "terrible failure" GM actually looks like. We've had no shortage of that in our recent 30 years, and Kyle was not even close to that.

It's funny how there is some who think of Kyle's tenure as a complete failure and that he is the dumbest mind in hockey, yet those same people would likely never refer to Auston, Mitch and Willy as such failures. Yet they share the same, if not more, of the blame in the last 5 seasons.

It is entirely possible for talented players to have seasons that end in failure, but not be complete failures as players. Same goes for General Managers.

Kyle is a very bright hockey mind. He is innovative, and he helped develop a culture that players wanted to play for and represent. I can't remember any former GM being able to get players on team friendly, league minimum deals. Yet that was common place for Kyle. Say what you will about him overpaying our core, he always found a way to round out the roster in a way that was worthy of competing for the Stanley Cup. Ultimately he hitched his wagon to Mitch, Auston, JT, and Willy which was ultimately turned out to be his biggest undoing. Mitch and Auston particularly let him down in those big moments with an alarming regularity. But I got news for you, it didn't matter who was steering the ship these past 5 seasons, those 2 would be in the same place, letting whoever was in charge down when it mattered the most.

I often wonder if the people who criticize Dubas even remember some of our previous GM's...I just don't know how you could even throw Kyle's name into the same basket as JFJ, Fletcher, Nonis, Burke and even Lou. All of those guys were far worse, and left us with far more of a mess to clean up after they left.

Kyle Dubas is absolutely a horrible failure, as are Matthews, Marner and Nylander.

How many more rd 2 wins does Dubas have than Burke or JFJ? 1. 1 single win. He was gifted a promising young core. Instead of bringing in good cup winning vets to show them the way when they were young, he surrounded them with some of the softest players in the league. He bent over backwards in each of their contract negotiations. He was the mastermind behind one of the softest teams this league has ever seen.

I've said it before, the Burke years were far less embarrassing than the Dubas years. At least with Burke we knew the guys would go out there giving it their all and hitting everything in sight. With Dubas' group we were lucky if they happened to feel like showing up. Cheering for this group while living in a different city was outright disgusting

 

[Superstar]

It's an insured contract...

I know not everyone liked Dubas but some of this discussion is going off the deep end lol.

It wasn't free...look at the trade...Leafs got a 4th back...Sparks went the other way and he ain't worth a 4th.

 

[Menzinger]

It wasn't free...look at the trade...Leafs got a 4th back...Sparks went the other way and he ain't worth a 4th.

It was essentially a paper transaction for the Leafs so that Vegas could have the caproom to sign Gusev who was an RFA, which is why the got the pick as payment for the role.

I get there's things to be pretty critical of Dubas'
for - but this shouldn't be one of them.

 

[Superstar]

It was essentially a paper transaction for the Leafs so that Vegas could have the caproom to sign Gusev who was an RFA, which is why the got the pick as payment for the role.

I get there's things to be pretty critical of Dubas'
for - but this shouldn't be one of them.

I'm not taking this one in isolation...the Leafs took that contract for a reason when another team wouldn't touch it.

 

[Donnie740]

So far Sea of Blue is the only poster who has attempted an objective comprehensive review.

The “comprehensive review” of Dubas can be summarized in two words:

TOTAL FAILURE.

 

[Leaf Fans]

The “comprehensive review” of Dubas can be summarized in two words:

TOTAL FAILURE.

No, that is not it.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Well, if you feel that way about him, I can’t even imagine what you think of Matthews and Marner in the playoffs. Lol.

Obviously they haven't been good enough in elimination games.

I didn't feel that way about Marchment until I checked his stats. He's been made into a mini-superstar by some here.

 

[Twine Tickler]

Okay, now compare the rosters to when said “Terrible failure GM’s” had when they took over as opposed to the roster Dubas had when he took over.

Face facts my friend. Dubas was nothing special here. Not even close.

Kyle Dubas is absolutely a horrible failure, as are Matthews, Marner and Nylander.

How many more rd 2 wins does Dubas have than Burke or JFJ? 1. 1 single win. He was gifted a promising young core. Instead of bringing in good cup winning vets to show them the way when they were young, he surrounded them with some of the softest players in the league. He bent over backwards in each of their contract negotiations. He was the mastermind behind one of the softest teams this league has ever seen.

I've said it before, the Burke years were far less embarrassing than the Dubas years. At least with Burke we knew the guys would go out there giving it their all and hitting everything in sight. With Dubas' group we were lucky if they happened to feel like showing up. Cheering for this group while living in a different city was outright disgusting

I remember them just fine. They never had 1/16th of the talent Dubas was gifted.


You just watched a rookie GM piss away our AM years. And you guys keep clapping. It's quite the sight to witness.

The fact that Kyle already has teams clamoring over him and reaching out to him is a testament to his abilities as a GM. Again, this is not my opinion, this would be what the people who work in the game think of him. Not to mention the very organization he was let go from was in an alleged uproar when the news broke of his dismissal.

You guys need to remove your feelings towards the guy, and understand he is a very quality GM in this league. He wears a share of the blame for certain. But IMO his share is the smallest in relation to coaching, and the players themselves. I have never claimed Kyle did not make mistakes in his tenure. I know he's made plenty. But that doesn't even come close to scratching the surface on all the good things he accomplished. I have remained consistent in that view of him as a GM for quite some time now. It's not going to change because the team underperformed against the Panthers. The GM's job is done after the deadline, and I was more than satisfied with the construction of the roster at that time. It was worthy of a real run. We ran into a wagon, c'est la vie. It's just the way the cookie crumbles.

I have also gone on to say that he is not the only guy that could be fit to do the job for us. There are plenty of bright hockey minds in the game, and we can certainly replace one of them for another. I think it's risky to do so given Kyle's share of the blame was the smallest IMO, but if that's the direction the board wanted to go, I can live with it.

If you need proof of what a terrible and epic failure at the GM position looks like, look at Jim Benning. Who has been out of the game for over a year and a half due to his incompetence. That will not be the case for Kyle, unless he chooses to take a step back. Again, that is the hockey community that will dictate his level of competency, not me.

 

[IPS]

The fact that Kyle already has teams clamoring over him and reaching out to him is a testament to his abilities as a GM. Again, this is not my opinion, this would be what the people who work in the game think of him. Not to mention the very organization he was let go from was in an alleged uproar when the news broke of his dismissal.

You guys need to remove your feelings towards the guy, and understand he is a very quality GM in this league. He wears a share of the blame for certain. But IMO his share is the smallest in relation to coaching, and the players themselves. I have never claimed Kyle did not make mistakes in his tenure. I know he's made plenty. But that doesn't even come close to scratching the surface on all the good things he accomplished. I have remained consistent in that view of him as a GM for quite some time now. It's not going to change because the team underperformed against the Panthers. The GM's job is done after the deadline, and I was more than satisfied with the construction of the roster at that time. It was worthy of a real run. We ran into a wagon, c'est la vie. It's just the way the cookie crumbles.

I have also gone on to say that he is not the only guy that could be fit to do the job for us. There are plenty of bright hockey minds in the game, and we can certainly replace one of them for another. I think it's risky to do so given Kyle's share of the blame was the smallest IMO, but if that's the direction the board wanted to go, I can live with it.

If you need proof of what a terrible and epic failure at the GM position looks like, look at Jim Benning. Who has been out of the game for over a year and a half due to his incompetence. That will not be the case for Kyle, unless he chooses to take a step back. Again, that is the hockey community that will dictate his level of competency, not me.

Teams "clamoring" over him?

You mean just Pittsburgh? Who else was linked to Dubas?

I think people will soon realize what a "terrible failure" GM actually looks like. We've had no shortage of that in our recent 30 years, and Kyle was not even close to that.

It's funny how there is some who think of Kyle's tenure as a complete failure and that he is the dumbest mind in hockey, yet those same people would likely never refer to Auston, Mitch and Willy as such failures. Yet they share the same, if not more, of the blame in the last 5 seasons.

It is entirely possible for talented players to have seasons that end in failure, but not be complete failures as players. Same goes for General Managers.

Kyle is a very bright hockey mind. He is innovative, and he helped develop a culture that players wanted to play for and represent. I can't remember any former GM being able to get players on team friendly, league minimum deals. Yet that was common place for Kyle. Say what you will about him overpaying our core, he always found a way to round out the roster in a way that was worthy of competing for the Stanley Cup. Ultimately he hitched his wagon to Mitch, Auston, JT, and Willy which was ultimately turned out to be his biggest undoing. Mitch and Auston particularly let him down in those big moments with an alarming regularity. But I got news for you, it didn't matter who was steering the ship these past 5 seasons, those 2 would be in the same place, letting whoever was in charge down when it mattered the most.

I often wonder if the people who criticize Dubas even remember some of our previous GM's...I just don't know how you could even throw Kyle's name into the same basket as JFJ, Fletcher, Nonis, Burke and even Lou. All of those guys were far worse, and left us with far more of a mess to clean up after they left.

He created the country club atmosphere. Mitch and Auston will probably become playoff beasts on other teams. Dubas gave them a green light to the let the them use the Leafs as an ATM machine and gave them everything they wanted, even guarded them from criticism in the media every year.

You are way overshining Dubas here buddy. Dubas didn't acquire the core, he just paid them - and badly at that.

 

[ToneDog]

Teams "clamoring" over him?

You mean just Pittsburgh? Who else was linked to Dubas?

It's the Pens falling in love with a GM like Dubas did with with Mrazek, Murray, Ritchie, Murray, Barrie, Kerfoot, Holl, Jarnkrok, Petan, Malgin, Jumbo, Simmonds, Soup, Cliffy and thinking they can win with them.

 

[Twine Tickler]

Teams "clamoring" over him?

You mean just Pittsburgh? Who else was linked to Dubas?

Do you actually think Kyle would table a counter offer to Shanny that reportedly nearly doubled his financial compensation if he wasn't at the very least aware of the interest he had leaguewide??

C'mon guys, it's fine to have a different opinion on him. If you don't think he is the guy for the job, I can totally respect that. But you are flat out wrong if you think he is a complete failure. Those guys don't get employed in the same roles immediately after their dismissals. To put it in perspective, JFJ was relieved of his GM job in 2008. He has not received a GM position since. People don't forget epic failures.

In contrast, Bruce Cassidy, his tenure as the Bruins coach would be every bit as much of a failure as Kyle's tenure as GM. Bruce was then immediately hired into a similar role and is 1 game away from the SCF.

Kyle will be successful in this league, and he will be employed as a GM for a long time. He has shown he is more than capable of assembling a winning team