Prospect Info: 9OA: Nate Danielson

[SirloinUB]

I agree he's not "too good" for the WHL, and if he plays there this year, we would expect a pretty big year. The way I'm looking at it though is simple, the top 12 forwards in the organization should be on the opening night roster. Although it has been a limited sample size, there is no question hat Danielson has been in the top 12 forwards so far. The best players should play, so if he keeps this level of play up, he should at least get a few games to start the year in the NHL. If he looks out of place at that point, then send him back to the WHL.

Assuming he keeps his play up I want to see him get his first 9 games. We can reevaluate after that.

I think hybrid development paths can actually work well. By that I mean a mix of NHL, CHL and AHL (not an option in Danielson’s case).

Look at Draisaitl. Played 37 games in the nhl after being drafted before being sent back to the CHL and dominating. I think a similar path can work for Danielson.

I think you can keep him with the team as long as he looks like he belongs. Be it 9 games, 30 games or whatever.

 

[HisNoodliness]

Those junior hockey lovers... It's always about talking about scoring support or getting high ice-time.

How about gettting low ice-time at NHL, learning from pros, and hitting more at gym because you have more energy to train, thanks to low ice-time?

There are always options.

You go back to WHL, and you learn nothing from other kids. You stand pat. Kids doing kid things.

The high-scoring against easy league is just illusion for stat-watchers. Who want some only proof you can understand to measure a good hockeyplayer. Score high points, yeah that's a realgud hockeyplayer.

It's a waste of a season. Danielson is already a bit overaged, so there's no need for Junior hockey. We see it now, everybody is praising him and sees it with an eye-test. He is good, he is right there, already par with NHLrs.

Lalonde already said his opinion about advanced stats, "believe when you see it". We see this guys' greatness. Let him learn at NHL, let him grow with great pros like Perron.

It's best invested money at hockey business. Good skater, defensively responsible, faceoffs. It's those Bergeron intangibles at young age I've never seen from anybody... except Bergeron.

Bergeron went straight to NHL, because he was responsible defensively. Just like Danielson. Coaches have no problems to use a kid like that. Because those are rare kids. They play like vets from the start.

The obvious counter-argument is that we want him to focus on offense and dominating play instead of being just another player in the NHL.

A personal anecdote: I used to play super smash brothers melee competitively. I started out learning against a bunch of people way better than me. I developed this tricky play style built around giving my opponents as few opportunities to combo me as possible, winning neutral frequently and just generally being safe. I didn't have much success at tournaments though because I wasn't any good at punishing my opponents. I hadn't practiced that. Then I started teaching a few newbies in the group and got to just combo them all day. I started doing way better because now I would get kills off of my opportunities. Furthermore because I would close out stocks easily, my opponents had to play safer which made neutral even easier.

I want Danielson to get used to having the puck on his stick all the time. I want him to get used to being one of the best players on the ice. When he gets the puck I don't want him thinking about the responsible play that will help the team keep possession, or away from our net etc. I want him thinking about how he can use each opportunity to create a goal. In the NHL, he's going to have to focus on just surviving. He's going to have to dump pucks to avoid turnovers, make simple passes to avoid interceptions, rush back to avoid rushes against. He's going to have to focus on being careful and safe. I want him to focus on being reckless and dangerous. I want him to practice stick handling through three guys. I want him to focus on making every shot a well-placed laser. I want him to try the most creative ill-advised passes that he can make work. So that when he does make the NHL, he can do those things in the NHL too. To be an elite NHL player, you have to take risks that often won't work out. It's harder to learn how to do that against people better than you than people worse than you.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

The obvious counter-argument is that we want him to focus on offense and dominating play instead of being just another player in the NHL.

A personal anecdote: I used to play super smash brothers melee competitively. I started out learning against a bunch of people way better than me. I developed this tricky play style built around giving my opponents as few opportunities to combo me as possible, winning neutral frequently and just generally being safe. I didn't have much success at tournaments though because I wasn't any good at punishing my opponents. I hadn't practiced that. Then I started teaching a few newbies in the group and got to just combo them all day. I started doing way better because now I would get kills off of my opportunities. Furthermore because I would close out stocks easily, my opponents had to play safer which made neutral even easier.

I want Danielson to get used to having the puck on his stick all the time. I want him to get used to being one of the best players on the ice. When he gets the puck I don't want him thinking about the responsible play that will help the team keep possession, or away from our net etc. I want him thinking about how he can use each opportunity to create a goal. In the NHL, he's going to have to focus on just surviving. He's going to have to dump pucks to avoid turnovers, make simple passes to avoid interceptions, rush back to avoid rushes against. He's going to have to focus on being careful and safe. I want him to focus on being reckless and dangerous. I want him to practice stick handling through three guys. I want him to focus on making every shot a well-placed laser. I want him to try the most creative ill-advised passes that he can make work. So that when he does make the NHL, he can do those things in the NHL too. To be an elite NHL player, you have to take risks that often won't work out. It's harder to learn how to do that against people better than you than people worse than you.

TIL that hockey and Super Smash Bros have similar player development paths.

 

[mikerooooose]

Keeping him up for 9 games, just to end up sending him down would be worst case scenario — and should be avoided.

I doubt he starts on the team.

 

[Barry Amsterdam]

The obvious counter-argument is that we want him to focus on offense and dominating play instead of being just another player in the NHL.

A personal anecdote: I used to play super smash brothers melee competitively. I started out learning against a bunch of people way better than me. I developed this tricky play style built around giving my opponents as few opportunities to combo me as possible, winning neutral frequently and just generally being safe. I didn't have much success at tournaments though because I wasn't any good at punishing my opponents. I hadn't practiced that. Then I started teaching a few newbies in the group and got to just combo them all day. I started doing way better because now I would get kills off of my opportunities. Furthermore because I would close out stocks easily, my opponents had to play safer which made neutral even easier.

I want Danielson to get used to having the puck on his stick all the time. I want him to get used to being one of the best players on the ice. When he gets the puck I don't want him thinking about the responsible play that will help the team keep possession, or away from our net etc. I want him thinking about how he can use each opportunity to create a goal. In the NHL, he's going to have to focus on just surviving. He's going to have to dump pucks to avoid turnovers, make simple passes to avoid interceptions, rush back to avoid rushes against. He's going to have to focus on being careful and safe. I want him to focus on being reckless and dangerous. I want him to practice stick handling through three guys. I want him to focus on making every shot a well-placed laser. I want him to try the most creative ill-advised passes that he can make work. So that when he does make the NHL, he can do those things in the NHL too. To be an elite NHL player, you have to take risks that often won't work out. It's harder to learn how to do that against people better than you than people worse than you.

f***ing fox main smh

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Keeping him up for 9 games, just to end up sending him down would be worst case scenario — and should be avoided.

I doubt he starts on the team.

Why? I see absolutely nothing wrong with it unless it sends a good player to waivers. In fact, I think it could actually be a good compliment to a healthy slate of WHL games.

 

[Ezekial]

Keeping him up for 9 games, just to end up sending him down would be worst case scenario — and should be avoided.

I doubt he starts on the team.

That's just not true. It's definitely a positive for your freshly 19 year old future NHL player to have an idea of what it takes to be a pro in the NHL, even if it's just 10% of a season.

 

[RRhoads]

Before the training camp, I was thinking he would need another year in the WHL, and play next year in the AHL. He's been a bit of a surprise. If he stays with the Wings or goes back to juniors, it is going to be a tough decision for Yzerman. Someone will have to be waived. Unless he can wield some magic in a trade.

 

[Our Lady Peace]

The fact we see clear signs of;

1) strong defensive competence in his first taste of NHL action

2) very good signs of offensive patience, anticipation, and creativity

is an awesome sign for the future of this player. Let's not get impatient with his development since we're the closest we've been to the playoffs since Pavel left (which seems like an eternity ago). If you let him cook a bit longer, he could turn out to be a hell of a player a lot quicker than we expect.

Like it was said on the last page, the development path for every player is different. With what we have seen in Nate so far, I think it's fair to see what he's got in 9 games and then send him to the WHL. Debating EU pro leagues or AHL semantics is pointless IMO.

He's clearly got a level head on his shoulders and carries himself maturely, so I'm sure when the Wings management sits down with him in a month or so (if he gets 9), he understands that going back to the WHL is for his benefit. He seems like he really wants to be a successful hockey player with this organization.

He can go back and lead a team to a potential WHL championship or even Memorial Cup. Not to mention he gets a shot at a WJC, as he could be a huge piece for that team with no Bedard or Fantilli there. All of that potentially would be an amazing benefit for his development, and the offense will naturally develop as he dominates junior this year.

 

[Detroit Knights]

Danielson was 43rd in the dub last year in PPG. He absolutely is not too good for that league, despite three pre-season games.

He also played with lesser skilled players and locked up bedard by him having his worst offensive numbers vs danielson and led his team in goals, assists, and points.

So, if you want to stat watch, then that is awesome! But numbers on a screen are the base and then you need to learn why those numbers are the way they were.

If he was playing with bedard, he'd have 100 points. If he is playing with no good linemates or team, he will have bad numbers...even then, he led the team in all categories showing that he was pulling everyone up and not getting easy points playing with players like bedard.

Bigger question is...why did so many people like your post? Very interesting.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

He also played with lesser skilled players and locked up bedard by him having his worst offensive numbers vs danielson and led his team in goals, assists, and points.

So, if you want to stat watch, then that is awesome! But numbers on a screen are the base and then you need to learn why those numbers are the way they were.

If he was playing with bedard, he'd have 100 points. If he is playing with no good linemates or team, he will have bad numbers...even then, he led the team in all categories showing that he was pulling everyone up and not getting easy points playing with players like bedard.

Bigger question is...why did so many people like your post? Very interesting.

Probably the statement that Danielson is not too good for the WHL? Because he's not.

Does it look like he's capable of holding his own on an NHL roster? Right now, probably yes. Is it the best move for Danielson? Probably no.

 

[Indrid Cold]

That's a good recipe for success. Demote a very talented offensive player on a team that was starving for goals last year when there's scrubs like Veleno and Fischer literally just filling a spot.

I don't think it's a stretch to say that Daniel San could easily make up for Bergy's 15 goals in 82 games without being a hole defensively. And I like Bergy...

 

[norrisnick]

I don't think it's a stretch to say that Daniel San could easily make up for Bergy's 15 goals in 82 games without being a hole defensively. And I like Bergy...

Or demote a guy that's not scoring 15 and play both kids.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Or demote a guy that's not scoring 15 and play both kids.

I like this plan better.

Christian Fischer has looked like absolute dogshit in the preseason. Slow, can't stay on his feet, late to the play, doesn't throw hits when he should. He's looking like waiver fodder.

Joe Veleno hasn't done enough this preseason. He's been alright defensively but is mostly chasing the play. He at least has trade value if we were to move him.

Klim Kostin has looked good in my limited viewings. Fast, hard in the corners, physical. Not expecting much more but for him to be a + level 4th liner. 10+ goals, 20ish points, hits, fights when necessary.

I don't think we'd miss any of these three, but I'd rather keep Kostin over the other two at this point. Berggren is a guy we'd miss.

 

[Preposterone]

I disagree with keeping Nate for the 9 games. If he isn’t making the team, let him go back and rip up his last junior season with minimal disruption

 

[Detroit Knights]

I disagree with keeping Nate for the 9 games. If he isn’t making the team, let him go back and rip up his last junior season with minimal disruption

Why not give him the 9 games for him to get a taste of what is to come and what he needs to be more mindful of/work on while he is in Junior and offseason? I think it would make a lot of sense of someone as talented and smart as him to get the experience after he earned it and then let him go back.

4th line sheltered minutes the first 9 games would be more beneficial at his specific stage.

 

[Ezekial]

Probably the statement that Danielson is not too good for the WHL? Because he's not.

Does it look like he's capable of holding his own on an NHL roster? Right now, probably yes. Is it the best move for Danielson? Probably no.

I don't understand why people have a problem with it. It's awesome to see him play well enough to deserve a look but, as someone who thought him showing he was close to NHL ready was possible, I think the best thing for his development is probably to get 9 games against real NHL competition then go down to the W and dominate. Unless he's dominant in those 9 games, I think the move is for him to go dominate somewhere.

 

[Gniwder]

Or demote a guy that's not scoring 15 and play both kids.

Copp? (that's why I laughed)

Only 3 other returning players scored 15 or more last season, Dboss, Ray, and Perron. Sprong, DBC, and Compher scored 15+ with their former team. I suppose Elmer, Raz and Fabbri were on pace for 15 or more for a full season. So was Kostin.

So that literally leaves just Copp, Joey, and Fischer based on last season's stats, and Fischer won't be an opening day starter anyways.

 

[Preposterone]

Why not give him the 9 games for him to get a taste of what is to come and what he needs to be more mindful of/work on while he is in Junior and offseason?

That’s what Training Camp and the preseason is for

 

[norrisnick]

Copp? (that's why I laughed)

Only 3 other returning players scored 15 or more last season, Dboss, Ray, and Perron. Sprong, DBC, and Compher scored 15+ with their former team. I suppose Elmer, Raz and Fabbri were on pace for 15 or more for a full season. So was Kostin.

So that literally leaves just Copp, Joey, and Fischer based on last season's stats, and Fischer won't be an opening day starter anyways.

I still don't get how you don't grasp the concept of assists. 42 points isn't much, but it was good for 5th on the team. You've had a hardon for his goal total all season long. It's just weird.

 

[Gniwder]

I still don't get how you don't grasp the concept of assists. 42 points isn't much, but it was good for 5th on the team. You've had a hardon for his goal total all season long. It's just weird.

Acting like he's some sort of playmaker, lol. We'll see how many points he gets if Compher winds up being 2C. Fortunately for Copp this team has some scoring depth now.

 

[Detroit Knights]

That’s what Training Camp and the preseason is for

To play against other whl and ahl players with barely any exposure to nhl only level talent?

Interesting

 

[norrisnick]

Acting like he's some sort of playmaker, lol. We'll see how many points he gets if Compher winds up being 2C. Fortunately for Copp this team has some scoring depth now.

May the coin-flip go in his favor. They're f***ing twins.

 

[Gniwder]

May the coin-flip go in his favor. They're f***ing twins.

I'm really thinking they're both going to be 2.5C with Compher getting Raz and Copp getting Perron. Sprong, Fabbri, Burger, and Kostin taking turns at the other wing for each.

I don't see any reason for Copp to play on the PP though and that means 5 less points based on last season.

 

[RedHawkDown]

The obvious counter-argument is that we want him to focus on offense and dominating play instead of being just another player in the NHL.

A personal anecdote: I used to play super smash brothers melee competitively. I started out learning against a bunch of people way better than me. I developed this tricky play style built around giving my opponents as few opportunities to combo me as possible, winning neutral frequently and just generally being safe. I didn't have much success at tournaments though because I wasn't any good at punishing my opponents. I hadn't practiced that. Then I started teaching a few newbies in the group and got to just combo them all day. I started doing way better because now I would get kills off of my opportunities. Furthermore because I would close out stocks easily, my opponents had to play safer which made neutral even easier.

I want Danielson to get used to having the puck on his stick all the time. I want him to get used to being one of the best players on the ice. When he gets the puck I don't want him thinking about the responsible play that will help the team keep possession, or away from our net etc. I want him thinking about how he can use each opportunity to create a goal. In the NHL, he's going to have to focus on just surviving. He's going to have to dump pucks to avoid turnovers, make simple passes to avoid interceptions, rush back to avoid rushes against. He's going to have to focus on being careful and safe. I want him to focus on being reckless and dangerous. I want him to practice stick handling through three guys. I want him to focus on making every shot a well-placed laser. I want him to try the most creative ill-advised passes that he can make work. So that when he does make the NHL, he can do those things in the NHL too. To be an elite NHL player, you have to take risks that often won't work out. It's harder to learn how to do that against people better than you than people worse than you.

This captures my thoughts perfectly. Thank you for this post.