Post-Game Talk: #9 - 10/27/19 | bruins @ RANGERS

[mandiblesofdoom]

The biggest issue is that our fanbase cant handle a rebuild really. It's usually a 4 or 5 year process...in year 2 right now.

I can handle a rebuild.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Some epic gaslighting going on with some posters telling everyone no, it's not a lack of effort or passion you plainly see on a shift by shift basis, it's 'structure' that makes them do lazy circles, turn away from hits at an alarming rate, and hot potato the puck in the face of any pressure.

I'm not sure why it can't be both

There's a clear lack of effort, but I think it's fair to question the structure and coaching as well

 

[ponytrekker]

There aren't any systems that work without talent and the players dedication to performing their job. How else would you explain coaches who have been successful with certain teams and not with others? If they had a superior system, it would work everywhere.
Fact is, most systems are very similar. It is widely known that certain coaches run the same 5-7 drills for their entire career. Saying that Quinn's system is somehow inferior isn't really accurate.

We aren't talking about winning the cup here.

Trots may not with the cup with the Isles but they will win a few games. Three guys back, everything in front of you will work a little.

There are quite a few guys on this team who have played better with different coaches.

 

[effen]

I'm not sure why it can't be both

There's a clear lack of effort, but I think it's fair to question the structure and coaching as well

It.can be, but that's not what the gaslighting has been about.

 

[will1066]

The structure was OK in the Buffalo game. They played a complete, three-zone game in that one. So, for me, it's not a question about structure. It's them folding under pressure and the structure breaking down, followed by their inability to get back into the structure.

Boston did to us what we did to Buffalo, basically, which was pressure on whoever's got the puck.

I bailed after 5-1. I see that Kreider picked up another garbage-time goal. Things are looking up for him.

 

[Raspewtin]

The structure was OK in the Buffalo game. They played a complete, three-zone game in that one. So, for me, it's not a question about structure. It's them folding under pressure and the structure breaking down, followed by their inability to get back into the structure.

Boston did to us what we did to Buffalo, basically, which was pressure on whoever's got the puck.

I bailed after 5-1. I see that Kreider picked up another garbage-time goal. Things are looking up for him.

Even in the Buffalo game where their structure was OK they still got dropped defensively after the first period.

Boston was a straight up execution. It wasn't even close.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

It's all effort...the lack of structure is because players arent putting the effort into getting to places they need to be, doing the things that need to be done and supporting each other on the ice. When one guy falters the structure is blown.

 

[tomobson]

The team came out flat. No energy whatsoever. They didn't care to try to win a foot race or battle. The only chance this roster has for sticking around in games against a team like boston is by outworking them. I'm not sure what kind of team structure works when your players don't play.

 

[True Blue]

This has been an issue for quite some time. It's part of the reason why I could somewhat understand having a guy like Haley in the organization. I'm hopeful the Wolfpack are also working on this same issue

It starts with getting personnel to play that way. And on a team like this, the earlier the young guys start the better.

 

[usekakkorightquinn]

This team is starting to look like the team that quit on Torts at the end. At this point I'd rather have Kakko, Andersson and Chytil playing a full year for our new, stud, AHL coach then keep them on the mess that is the big club. Then let our AHL coach graduate and coach the Rangers next year.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

This team is starting to look like the team that quit on Torts at the end. At this point I'd rather have Kakko, Andersson and Chytil playing a full year for our new, stud, AHL coach then keep them on the mess that is the big club. Then let our AHL coach graduate and coach the Rangers next year.

I felt Kakko should have went directly to Hartford anyway,its too big of an adjustment coming to North American hockey. It's hard to do now without it becoming a big deal.

 

[RangerBoy]

The Rangers are on the verge of making history.

 

[SA16]

Wow great stat. John Carlson is also on pace for 132 points. Brad Marchand is on pace to go +82. David Pastrnak is on pace to score 82 goals. Kaapo Kakko is on pace to go -109.

Maybe we shouldn't pick out small sample stats and act like they have significant meaning? I have not done the research but I bet there were a decent number of instances of CF% under 42.3 in 9 game samples (not sure what their false 40.9% number is)

For example an extremely quick search right away shows me up til 10/21 last year (~8 games) ANA had a 40.3 CF%. VAN 42.3%. NYI 42.4%. OTT 42.7%. Wow. It's almost like this is common in small samples!

 

[Levitate]

They need to fire Ruff and get someone competent to coach the D.

 

[JHS]

Definitely not just about last night. Listen I’m the furthest thing from an analytics guy but the numbers in every category are so strikingly bad from the next worst it’s scary. And the eye test tells you the same. We are BADLY coached and actually have a lot more talent than teams performing way better.

with a young team we should be even more structured.

theres no reason our Defense can’t hold the line. Everyone minus Staal is a very good skater on that back end. They shouldn’t be backing to the circles. Gap control is taught at like midget level. That should be simple enough.

Kakko is 18 obviously he’s going to make mistakes but the other guys? Are there any rookies in the top 12? No. They can play structured hockey.

People are conflating a lack of structure with a lack of effort and blaming both on the coach. That's not what I'm saying and its not what @Kovalev27 is pointing out above. Playing without passion or effort is on the players- but not being put into positions to succeed and not being given the basics of X's and O's and instead being questioned about effort by the coach is just plain terrible coaching. A coach at the NHL level is not a professional cheerleader- he needs to provide the team with a winning strategy each game and allow them to understand how to combat the other teams strengths. That's not happening right now. We keep hearing about effort after games from coach Quinn. Sure, effort counts but honestly the play on the ice is currently so bad that you can't just outwork mistakes at this level.

The defense backing into the zone and refusing to step up and close the gap, the forwards not back checking and putting any back pressure on the puck, the players literally facing away from the puck in the defensive zone and losing sight of both the puck and the man, the power play constantly moving the puck away from Panarin and over to Buch's side, the lack of development and regression of players-- this list goes on and on. Hiring a college level coach was a gigantic mistake- these young guys need and experienced guy who has a proven NHL track record to lead them. Just think, Barry Trots could have been the Rangers coach if they did not rush the decision and hire Quinn before they needed to. No doubt in my mind they would be a much better team if they did that.

 

[Rongomania]

The Rangers are on the verge of making history.

"The Rangers Tank Season: Part Two: MAKING HISTORY."

It even sounds like a Nic Cage film.

Ugh.

 

[Machinehead]

The Rangers are on the verge of making history.

And yet we're letting Quinn gaslight us into thinking the structure is fine.

 

[Machinehead]

You know, for an organization that won't shut up about character and effort, doesn't it seem to come up every year that we're disappointed in that department?

Maybe that's because it happens organically by playing together in a system with an accountable coaching staff. There's something we haven't had since 2013.

The Rangers think it comes from running out of position and playing terrible vets.

 

[Captain Monglobster]

Dont know why anyone is upset or confused about losing to the eastern conference champs. They are a class above the rangers right now, and that is normal.

This team is still growing. Inconsistency is part of the growing pains. If the team is still looking disjointed and the kids are making the same mistakes in March, then I'll worry.

This season was never supposed to end with a winning record.

 

[Deleted member 23124]

This season was never supposed to end with a winning record.

Not according to some people.

 

[Kakko]

Dont know why anyone is upset or confused about losing to the eastern conference champs. They are a class above the rangers right now, and that is normal.

This team is still growing. Inconsistency is part of the growing pains. If the team is still looking disjointed and the kids are making the same mistakes in March, then I'll worry.

This season was never supposed to end with a winning record.

There's a difference between losing a game (even to a team), and consistently performing like you belong in a different league from your opponents. That's what's happening with this team right now, based on every metric, including eyes.

 

[bleedblue94]

I mean, @Machinehead just mentioned this, but there’s been a significant amount of roster turnover and it seems like the end result is the same with different players

So at some point it has to land at the feet of the organization

Or it is a cultural thing with new players coming up, a the lack of leadership in the locker room, and/or an effect of that significant roster turnover you mentioned. It goes back to the arguments before regarding Staal and his current worth to the organization supposedly being in off ice leadership. Everyone wants to hand these kids the keys, give them the benefit of the doubt, and then complains when they aren't working hard or get visibly discouraged bc they are outmatched. We say this is the same result with different players, yet I would say the short memory forgets that this is the same result with different coaches. The cushy way under AV was visible to fans that watched closely and to this board. That apathetic approach by the team is something I think we are still seeing, and DQ is trying to find a way to get it out of the room. We say this before, that when you get the half azz effort and lack of accountability in a franchise that it is a bear to try to eradicate it. I could be wrong, but I find it way too easy to just blame DQ and pretend that as soon as AV left the culture he built left. The hardwork culture of Torts survived a number of years into the AV tenure even though you could see it whittle away a little each year, but for the most part that team grew together and you could see that had accountability to each other. This group does not...

 

[Captain Monglobster]

There's a difference between losing a game (even to a team), and consistently performing like you belong in a different league from your opponents. That's what's happening with this team right now, based on every metric, including eyes.

This team is a one line team with 2 rookies and Staal playing D. They do belong in a different league.

 

[eco's bones]

All you have to do is look at the islanders with a revolving door of goalies significantly less talent than we have and just rattling off wins because of good coaching and structure. We have neither.

isles have way more bottom 6 guys in their lineup very little offensive talent and their blueline I mean those guys aren’t special. But they stick to the system every night and win.

Look at the Islanders lineup though--they are a veteran team throughout their lineup. Those bottom 6 forwards--Brassard, Martin, Cizikas, Clutterbuck, Komarov--even spare forwards like Johnston and Kuhnhackl aren't kids.

 

[The S5]

Definitely not just about last night. Listen I’m the furthest thing from an analytics guy but the numbers in every category are so strikingly bad from the next worst it’s scary. And the eye test tells you the same. We are BADLY coached and actually have a lot more talent than teams performing way better.

with a young team we should be even more structured.

theres no reason our Defense can’t hold the line. Everyone minus Staal is a very good skater on that back end. They shouldn’t be backing to the circles. Gap control is taught at like midget level. That should be simple enough.

Kakko is 18 obviously he’s going to make mistakes but the other guys? Are there any rookies in the top 12? No. They can play structured hockey.

Are you of the belief that Quinn doesn't teach structure? System?
How many different "systems" are being run in the NHL today? For example, how many different forecheck systems are there and if one team was so superior, wouldn't everyone copy?

A story that I was told by my father goes like this, "When Freddie Shero was giving a seminar to a team of Russian coaches back in the 70's, the question was asked, ""What system does the Boston Bruins use to be so effective on the breakout?"". Freddie's response was..Bobby Orr. Point is clearly that players make systems.