Prospect Info: #8OA, Marco Kasper

[norrisnick]

He's not. Compher has generated chances coming off the boards. The problem is no finishers on his line. Copp has hands of stone, and that's who is mostly doing the shooting on that line.

If you put Copp with Larkin this year he probably has 8 fewer points and trolls on this board would be crying about Larkin not being a true 1C and that Raymond is a bust. When you look at icetime versus impact he has been probably the worst forward on the Wings this season, if not bottom 3.

Ok... and how has Kasper's finishing been? If JT (apparently stands for Joe Thornton) Compher can't make Copp score you think he's squeezing goals out of Marco?

 

[lilidk]

Yeah, but that still wouldn't be exciting for a Top 10 pick. We can pretend, well it is still something we need, but if that is all that he ends up as is a gritty version of Copp, then we rightfully should be disappointed.

Not only more gritty , but also faster. When we drafted him we all new he is not high end talent, but solid 2-3 line center.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Ok... and how has Kasper's finishing been? If JT (apparently stands for Joe Thornton) Compher can't make Copp score you think he's squeezing goals out of Marco?

Compher isn't nearly as shit as you make him out to be. He's a capable forward that is playing a valuable shutdown role where offensive chances generated are limited. I'm under no illusion that Kasper is going to score 50 goals a season, but yeah, he's got better hands than Andrew Copp. I think he would do better on that line than Copp would because even if he isn't scoring goals he's still able to effectively hold onto the puck and keep the play on the boards. Copp isn't even doing that well right now.

 

[Oddbob]

Not only more gritty , but also faster. When we drafted him we all new he is not high end talent, but solid 2-3 line center.

You don't draft any player in the Top 10 with the hope they only get as high as line 3.

I feel like I'm missing something. How did we go from Kasper being a top prospect in the organization to being a bust and/or a career grinder.

He didn't even look out of place in his one NHL game.

I don't think he is a bust or grinder, I am just saying if that was all he became was a grinder we would all be sad.

 

[norrisnick]

Compher isn't nearly as shit as you make him out to be. He's a capable forward that is playing a valuable shutdown role where offensive chances generated are limited. I'm under no illusion that Kasper is going to score 50 goals a season, but yeah, he's got better hands than Andrew Copp. I think he would do better on that line than Copp would because even if he isn't scoring goals he's still able to effectively hold onto the puck and keep the play on the boards. Copp isn't even doing that well right now.

And in what alternate universe does that not apply to Copp? Why is Copp getting shit on for providing exactly the same thing as Compher? They are twins and have always been. Copp's greatest sin is having been a Wing one season longer.

 

[Gniwder]

Compher isn't nearly as shit as you make him out to be. He's a capable forward that is playing a valuable shutdown role where offensive chances generated are limited. I'm under no illusion that Kasper is going to score 50 goals a season, but yeah, he's got better hands than Andrew Copp. I think he would do better on that line than Copp would because even if he isn't scoring goals he's still able to effectively hold onto the puck and keep the play on the boards. Copp isn't even doing that well right now.

The Copp hate, lol.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

And in what alternate universe does that not apply to Copp? Why is Copp getting shit on for providing exactly the same thing as Compher? They are twins and have always been. Copp's greatest sin is having been a Wing one season longer.

Because Copp is the one flubbing chances and causing plays to die on his stick. Are you watching the wings with your eyes shut dude? He's been f***ing awful. Give him the puck and it's heading back to Detroit's zone 3 seconds later. Give Compher the puck and he's cycling it. That is a huge difference.

 

[norrisnick]

Because Copp is the one flubbing chances and causing plays to die on his stick. Are you watching the wings with your eyes shut dude? He's been f***ing awful. Give him the puck and it's heading back to Detroit's zone 3 seconds later. Give Compher the puck and he's cycling it. That is a huge difference.

I am watching. And apparently no one else is noticing Compher's passes to nowhere and shots blown wide? Copp at least has the decency to get them on goal (and squarely into the goalie).

Compher is doing nothing better than Copp to warrant the disparity in opinion. It's the greener pastures from the summer signing continuing to frame the narrative.

Swap Compher for Sprong and you'll get the same outcome as swapping Copp for Sprong. Marginally better offense at the cost of a greater loss in defensive effectiveness.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I am watching. And apparently no one else is noticing Compher's passes to nowhere and shots blown wide? Copp at least has the decency to get them on goal (and squarely into the goalie).

Compher is doing nothing better than Copp to warrant the disparity in opinion. It's the greener pastures from the summer signing continuing to frame the narrative.

Swap Compher for Sprong and you'll get the same outcome as swapping Copp for Sprong. Marginally better offense at the cost of a greater loss in defensive effectiveness.

They look similar in advanced stats because they've been joined at the hip.

Are they similar players? Yes, in that they play a similar role as 2/3 Center/wingers. But Compher is a better skater and passer. And he can actually hold the puck along the boards where Copp only plays reach and hope.

Anyway, I doubt I can change your mind on this and I sincerely doubt you'll change mine. And it's a Marco Kasper thread. Let's talk about him instead.

 

[jkutswings]

I'm under no illusion that Kasper is going to score 50 goals a season, but yeah, he's got better hands than Andrew Copp.

I think this guy has better hands than Andrew Copp.

 

[Gniwder]

I am watching. And apparently no one else is noticing Compher's passes to nowhere and shots blown wide? Copp at least has the decency to get them on goal (and squarely into the goalie).

Compher is doing nothing better than Copp to warrant the disparity in opinion. It's the greener pastures from the summer signing continuing to frame the narrative.

Swap Compher for Sprong and you'll get the same outcome as swapping Copp for Sprong. Marginally better offense at the cost of a greater loss in defensive effectiveness.

Quite frankly, one of them should be swapped out for Sprong or Perron. I want a defensively responsible player on Joey's line, so he has more freedom to get aggressive offensively. My vote is to swap Perron and Compher because Raz-Copp-Perron looked good before Raz' injury last season. It may be a marginal difference like you say, but I think Compher better on the rush as well. Copp likes to slow things down, and so does Raz and Perron.

Lalonde has to shuffle lines after 3 losses, Joey is the only one getting anything done aside from the top line. Moving Perron off of that line and separating the Copp/Compher twins make sense to me.

 

[Detroit Knights]

I think this guy has better hands than Andrew Copp.

before or after he jacked off the elephant??

 

[mikerooooose]

I think it's reasonable to be critical of a top pick not currently performing well at the AHL level.

I know he's only 19. That's factored into the criticism. lol

Obviously he can turn it all around, but we can only go off of games he has actually played.

 

[Barry Amsterdam]

zadina had been burned at the stake by this point

 

[heyfolks]

zadina had been burned at the stake by this point

Appropriately.

 

[jkutswings]

I'd like to extrapolate this thread and the one on Danielson to their natural next step:

I'm leaning on extensive sample size to preemptively declare our 2024 first round pick a bust.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I'd like to extrapolate this thread and the one on Danielson to their natural next step:

I'm leaning on extensive sample size to preemptively declare our 2024 first round pick a bust.

Don't sell us short. They're busts all the way to 2027 because Detroit will have improved in the standings incrementally and as they do so their picks will be even worse busts than the last.

Simon BUSTvinsson
SeBUSTian Cossa
Marco BUSTer
Nate BUSTielson
Axel Sandin BUSTikka

And every other bust the team picks shall henceforth have bust added to their names.

 

[Gniwder]

zadina had been burned at the stake by this point

LOL, not quite.

IIRC, Zadina started out his D+2 season in GR, got promoted to the Wings. It took the NHL a few games to realize that he only has one move, and he got PP1 time that season so he put up some points.

Fans didn't sour on him until his first full (non-COVID) season, where it became obvious that he couldn't adjust his game at all other than shaking his head harder on his headfakes.

 

[Detroit Knights]

I'd like to extrapolate this thread and the one on Danielson to their natural next step:

I'm leaning on extensive sample size to preemptively declare our 2024 first round pick a bust.

 

[mikerooooose]

Also, I said Zadina was a bum years ago and was mocked by these similar high and mighty attitudes. Where are all these blind people defending him now? I EXPECT FULL APOLOGIES!!!

 

[Snuggs]

Also, I said Zadina was a bum years ago and was mocked by these similar high and mighty attitudes. Where are all these blind people defending him now? I EXPECT FULL APOLOGIES!!!

Bring up the post or you're just making things up as Mr. Hindsight.

Idk, this forum LOVES Kasper, He was basically a walking HOF'er after his 1 injury ridden NHL game. People thought he did well.

I don't hate or love him. I think guys like him are prime to package in deals for quality, and I mean quality NHL players. Every year after this one Kasper's value will go down if he's not NHL ready. He's young enough to really have questions on what he's going to be and how he'll develop within 1 or 2 years, but that's why there's value. If Red Wings are actually going to make a play at Elias Pettersson, I think Kasper is part of the deal, and it'll look uncomfortable on paper. Example:

Michael Rasmussen, Robby Fabbri, Marco Kasper, William Wallinder, 1st round pick.

for

Elias Pettersson with 6-8 extension.

I wouldn't move Kasper or think about trading him unless I'm bringing in a top league talent somewhere (Forward/Defense.)

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

I have a hard time having criticism for kasper and the rest of the kids in GR when they’ve produced in other leagues but come over here and it’s nothing. For whatever reason GR has been an absolute shitshow the past few years despite having tons of talent. Our NA development coaches are just not it and we don’t get the most out of our players in GR. Something’s gotta change though because it’s really really hampering our prospects.

 

[Michael Brand Eggs]

I have a hard time having criticism for kasper and the rest of the kids in GR when they’ve produced in other leagues but come over here and it’s nothing. For whatever reason GR has been an absolute shitshow the past few years despite having tons of talent. Our NA development coaches are just not it and we don’t get the most out of our players in GR. Something’s gotta change though because it’s really really hampering our prospects.

Yeah, something is wrong. Even established NA pros aren't getting it done in GR right now.

 

[Run the Jewels]

I have a hard time having criticism for kasper and the rest of the kids in GR when they’ve produced in other leagues but come over here and it’s nothing. For whatever reason GR has been an absolute shitshow the past few years despite having tons of talent. Our NA development coaches are just not it and we don’t get the most out of our players in GR. Something’s gotta change though because it’s really really hampering our prospects.

I have been very skeptical about our NA scouting for quite some time, but in this case I would give Dan Watson a bit more time. The new HC came over from Toledo where he had lots of success, always making the playoffs and making it to the Finals twice. He's also quite familiar with Lalonde, having been an assistant head coach under Lalonde.

If we had the same coaching we've had the past couple years I would be right there with you, but since that is not the case I would give it one more month to see if Dan Watson can get things turned around.

 

[ShanahanMan]

Another game, another zero points.