Prospect Info: #8OA, Marco Kasper

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Kasper couldn't play in the NCAA since he's signed with the Wings. Playing in the SHL also prohibits him from college. Any pro play is a no-go. Even playing CHL will keep you out since the recieve a stipend for living expenses. Stupid rule, man.

Yeah I do know that but I honestly didn't even think of that when I wrote it. Obviously I know Kasper is going to Rogle so was really more of less just theorizing on development differences amongst different leagues. I do think NCAA would be pretty ideal for him. Since the big 10 formed it seems to be drawing a lot more good players, either that or we just simply have a lot more US born high profile players. Hopefully the USHL and NCAA route keep going forward.

I do agree the rule is really stupid. I would have to believe a lot more Canadian players would go to the NCAA if they changed the rules. With the amount of younger players making the NHL I would have to assume Canadian drafted players are tired of being stuck in juniors and would certainly go NCAA draft +1 seasons if they could. That's an option they could make on their own and I'm sure their NHL teams would support it all day long.
 
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There's a conflict between training camp with Rogle. And honestly, I'm not too butthurt by this. Austria should be playing WJC D1A, not in the main WJC. Their program has a long way to go to even reach Germany's level.

Yeah playing for Austria isn't a big loss. But dang I really wanted to see him play in a couple weeks.

Any of our other Euro specs going to make it?
 
If Kasper were guaranteed a big opportunity in Rogle then I don't think there would be much controversy here. If he's playing left wing on the third line and chipping in on the second powerplay unit for example, where he could have been playing a 1C with big special team minutes in Ottawa, I see merits to the latter option.
Rögle plays for the championship, so obviously they cannot guarantee anything. But even if Kasper ends up being a 3rd line winger this upcoming season, i'd still rather see that than him playing in the OHL.

In Ottawa Kasper would lead the the team and would score lot of points, that would help us the fans to see more of his offense but would it improve his own game? I would say no. At the end of a last season Kasper started to have lot more confidence in his game, 6 points in 13 games in the SHL playoffs and basically a 1st line center for team Austria in IIHF Worlds at the age of 17.

Coach Abbott has proven to be an excelent coach and despite that their goal is to win the champioship, he's not afraid to give young guys a lot of resbonsibilities. If you are good enough, you get the minutes and if not start improving yourself. Rögle is a way better developmental enviroment right now, there's lot of challenges for Kasper. Everything has to be earned nothing is given, he has tough competition in his team and in the opposite teams as well. That's the way to learn things right, and veteran players help with the little daily things.
I think everybody is willing to acknowledge the drawbacks of CHL hockey. This board is weirdly resistant to acknowledging the drawbacks of the European men's leagues. Yzerman pretty clearly values our SHL scouting and developmental inroads highly, which is fair. It's pretty normal for organizations to have draft preferences - Carolina has generally prioritized Liiga, Ottawa with University of North Dakota, Winnipeg with University of Michigan, Anaheim like us values the SHL pretty highly, etc. But the hfboards counterculture that men's leagues are inherently better for development has always been nonsense, and I'm surprised it didn't die when it became evident that Jack Hughes was worth 7 Kaapo Kakko's despite BladeParadigm's insistence otherwise.
What are the drawbacks? I can't think of any. Professional hockey ? Player rights expiration date ? AHL eligibility ? Veteran players as teammates ?

Jack Hughes is and always been more talented than Kakko. Kakko was physically more readier than Hughes but was called to play in the NHL too early. In the 2019 Worlds group stage games he was very visible but after the Q-final he was no where to be found.
 
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What are the drawbacks? I can't think of any. Professional hockey ? Player rights expiration date ? AHL eligibility ? Veteran players as teammates ?

You literally posted a lot of draw backs in your post. Theres a possibility that hes stuck as a third line winger because its a mens team that doesnt care about player development and has a lot of competition for ice time. So you get a third line winger role, with no PP for a guy who you want to develop his offensive side of the game. Its also a bigger ice rink which leads to players developing habits sometimes where they think they have more time than they do. It happened with Berggren this year and luckily he adjusted as the season went along

If Kasper came to the AHL and those exact same things happened everyone would flip out, even though its professional hockey with internal competition and veteran players as teammates
 
Looks like no Kasper at the WJC


Couldn't have come out with this yesterday before I posted about the benefits of him playing in the WJC?

I'm a bit surprised by this. I thought everyone would be much more likely to go with it being in the summer
 
You literally posted a lot of draw backs in your post. Theres a possibility that hes stuck as a third line winger because its a mens team that doesnt care about player development and has a lot of competition for ice time. So you get a third line winger role, with no PP for a guy who you want to develop his offensive side of the game. Its also a bigger ice rink which leads to players developing habits sometimes where they think they have more time than they do. It happened with Berggren this year and luckily he adjusted as the season went along

If Kasper came to the AHL and those exact same things happened everyone would flip out, even though its professional hockey with internal competition and veteran players as teammates

He'll be ok. Here is Rogle's roster right now.

Rögle BK at eliteprospects.com

Läget i lagen - SHL.se

Anton Bengtson will probably be 1C. If Ted Brithen is healthy then he's a maybe for 2C but he's had injury problems lately. Kasper would at worst be 3C here.

On wing you have Dennis Everberg and Adam Tambellini pretty much guaranteed top 6 spots. So there's a chance both Kasper AND Niederbach can play top 6 wing spots.

My guess is depending on how strong Kasper's performance is, he's either going to be a top 6 winger or middle 6 center. But he could outplay Brithen and/or Bengtson and be the top 6 center. I certainly wouldn't put it past the kid.
 
He'll be ok. Here is Rogle's roster right now.

Rögle BK at eliteprospects.com

Läget i lagen - SHL.se

Anton Bengtson will probably be 1C. If Ted Brithen is healthy then he's a maybe for 2C but he's had injury problems lately. Kasper would at worst be 3C here.

On wing you have Dennis Everberg and Adam Tambellini pretty much guaranteed top 6 spots. So there's a chance both Kasper AND Niederbach can play top 6 wing spots.

My guess is depending on how strong Kasper's performance is, he's either going to be a top 6 winger or middle 6 center. But he could outplay Brithen and/or Bengtson and be the top 6 center. I certainly wouldn't put it past the kid.
I'm not saying specifically that I have an issue with him going to Rogle at all, I dont.

Just replying to someone who says theres literally no draw backs to European pro leagues while shitting on other leagues. Each league has their pros and cons, but if it wasnt a Euro pro league people would be outraged at the same treatment in the AHL
 
Rögle plays for the championship, so obviously they cannot guarantee anything. But even if Kasper ends up being a 3rd line winger this upcoming season, i'd still rather see that than him playing in the OHL.

In Ottawa Kasper would lead the the team and would score lot of points, that would help us the fans to see more of his offense but would it improve his own game? I would say no. At the end of a last season Kasper started to have lot more confidence in his game, 6 points in 13 games in the SHL playoffs and basically a 1st line center for team Austria in IIHF Worlds at the age of 17.

Coach Abbott has proven to be an excelent coach and despite that their goal is to win the champioship, he's not afraid to give young guys a lot of resbonsibilities. If you are good enough, you get the minutes and if not start improving yourself. Rögle is a way better developmental enviroment right now, there's lot of challenges for Kasper. Everything has to be earned nothing is given, he has tough competition in his team and in the opposite teams as well. That's the way to learn things right, and veteran players help with the little daily things.

What are the drawbacks? I can't think of any. Professional hockey ? Player rights expiration date ? AHL eligibility ? Veteran players as teammates ?

Jack Hughes is and always been more talented than Kakko. Kakko was physically more readier than Hughes but was called to play in the NHL too early. In the 2019 Worlds group stage games he was very visible but after the Q-final he was no where to be found.

So the player who played in juniors ended up the better player in the NHL sooner and the player who played pro with veterans, leadership, etc is struggling badly in the NHL?

Lol, I'm literally just throwing a wrench at ya. Not because I disagree that Rogle is a great place for Kasper, simply because your so close-minded and absolutely certain on the idea that there couldn't possibly be any advantages outside of Rogle.

So many prospects take such different paths, there is really no telling what the best receipt is for any particular player. Some players could really benefit playing in Jr leagues, other players should be in pro leagues. Yes, they have to learn pro at some point, but some players benifit from working on things in Jr's building confidence by playing big minutes, top PP, being the guy, putting up lots of points. Instead of being a passenger on a team trying to simplify their game just to keep afloat. There is a reason why many teams avoid bringing in skilled prospects to the NHL roster if they aren't ready for a skilled role. Same thing can happen in the SHL or AHL. It just depends on the player.
 
The way that I look at it is if Marco is the star that we need its really not all that important where he develops. People that become super stars tend to develop themselves. They are either savants that already have NHL skills becuase they are super human. Or they know how to progress in less than ideal circumstances. Drafting someone at 8 you hope for a little bit of self development path no mater where they are placed. I am fine with him going anywhere. Marco kind of sounds like the personality type to get it done and excel no matter what is going on around him.
 
The way that I look at it is if Marco is the star that we need its really not all that important where he develops. People that become super stars tend to develop themselves. They are either savants that already have NHL skills becuase they are super human. Or they know how to progress in less than ideal circumstances. Drafting someone at 8 you hope for a little bit of self development path no mater where they are placed. I am fine with him going anywhere. Marco kind of sounds like the personality type to get it done and excel no matter what is going on around him.

Ok but most players arent savants so a lot goes into developing them. If hes not going to be a star you dont throw your hands up in the air and say oh well he didnt develop himself either
 
You literally posted a lot of draw backs in your post. Theres a possibility that hes stuck as a third line winger because its a mens team that doesnt care about player development and has a lot of competition for ice time. So you get a third line winger role, with no PP for a guy who you want to develop his offensive side of the game. Its also a bigger ice rink which leads to players developing habits sometimes where they think they have more time than they do. It happened with Berggren this year and luckily he adjusted as the season went along

If Kasper came to the AHL and those exact same things happened everyone would flip out, even though its professional hockey with internal competition and veteran players as teammates
How exactly the reasons i posted are drawbacks?

CHL player has to be signed two years after he is drafted. European player 4 years, much more room to control the development.

OHL/WHL/QMJHL are still junior leagues and there are players there who can't never make it in to any pro league in the world. Many pro's in Europe can never make it in to the NHL but many of them can still have a career that most of the CHL kids can not even dream of. This is basically like a real life job, you have just graduated and the boss pairs you up with a veteran who has 15 years of experience. You will learn a lot more from him/her, than you will learn from a another kid who just graduated.

European can play in the AHL immediately, CHL player has to be 20 years old. What a stupid rule.

You talk like 3rd liner plays like 4 min per game, you know better than that. 11 minutes per game in the pro league is better than 18 minutes in the junior league. If Kasper gets stucked in the 3rd line, then he would just have to work harder. Coach Abbott will give the minutes, if Kasper deserves them. Wallinder started the season with 8 min per game and finished the season with 18 min per game. Same was for Seider, first few games 15 or so min per game and +20 rest of the year. It's in Kasper's hand's.

Finally are a real drawback. Yes, some European players have a bad habit to think that they have more time than they actually have on small ice. But experience will fix that and luckily Red Wings have drafted high hockey-IQ players, they understand the time and space themselves. But big rinks are a drawback, game is much more entertaining on small ice. But Berggren is a bad comp, because Kasper doesn't play like Berggren.

Just replying to someone who says theres literally no draw backs to European pro leagues while shitting on other leagues. Each league has their pros and cons
Im not shitting on any leagues, friend. I was just making a case that in this case, Kasper moving to OHL is a bad move and SHL is better for his development. Kasper has played in pro leagues almost two years now, he has nothing to gain in the junior leagues. Kasper's next step is to become top-6 center in SHL.
So the player who played in juniors ended up the better player in the NHL sooner and the player who played pro with veterans, leadership, etc is struggling badly in the NHL?
Hughes have natural god given talent, something what can not be taugh. Like most of the 1st overall picks and Kakko was called to play in the NHL too early, like i said already and that's why he is struggling. Extra year or two in Europe would have been better developmental route. Speaking of the Rangers, Lafreniere.... 2-time CHL player of the year, hasn't exactly lighted the world on fire in NHL.
Lol, I'm literally just throwing a wrench at ya. Not because I disagree that Rogle is a great place for Kasper, simply because your so close-minded and absolutely certain on the idea that there couldn't possibly be any advantages outside of Rogle.
For Kasper, Rögle is the right place and the only place for now. In last two years Kasper has played 87(+7 IIHF worlds) pro games, transfer from SHL to OHL is a step back. Kasper needs to take a next step as a pro hockey player, a junior league can not help him with that.
So many prospects take such different paths, there is really no telling what the best receipt is for any particular player. Some players could really benefit playing in Jr leagues, other players should be in pro leagues. Yes, they have to learn pro at some point, but some players benifit from working on things in Jr's building confidence by playing big minutes, top PP, being the guy, putting up lots of points. Instead of being a passenger on a team trying to simplify their game just to keep afloat. There is a reason why many teams avoid bringing in skilled prospects to the NHL roster if they aren't ready for a skilled role. Same thing can happen in the SHL or AHL. It just depends on the player.
This is what we can agree of. Every player is a individual but for a european prospect, who has played pro league games in a steady role at the age of 17/18 doesn't need to go back to junior leagues. Player like Buchelnikov would benefit a lot more from junior leagues.
 
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Ok but most players arent savants so a lot goes into developing them. If hes not going to be a star you dont throw your hands up in the air and say oh well he didnt develop himself either

I also don't see the wings throwing their hands up. He is going to be fine where ever they send him.
 
Yeah I do know that but I honestly didn't even think of that when I wrote it. Obviously I know Kasper is going to Rogle so was really more of less just theorizing on development differences amongst different leagues. I do think NCAA would be pretty ideal for him. Since the big 10 formed it seems to be drawing a lot more good players, either that or we just simply have a lot more US born high profile players. Hopefully the USHL and NCAA route keep going forward.

I do agree the rule is really stupid. I would have to believe a lot more Canadian players would go to the NCAA if they changed the rules. With the amount of younger players making the NHL I would have to assume Canadian drafted players are tired of being stuck in juniors and would certainly go NCAA draft +1 seasons if they could. That's an option they could make on their own and I'm sure their NHL teams would support it all day long.
I think that at a certain point we have to recognize that these NCAA teams have nothing to do with their universities besides money and a place to play. The players are professional athletes that we set up rules against any payment so that we can exploit free labor. They don't learn anything because they don't spend any time on classes; they're too busy being professional athletes. Plus most of the schools won't let you take anything besides a few essentially fake degrees that they've set up specifically to keep people that don't belong in university from failing. I knew a guy who played football at Georgia Tech. He couldn't make it professionally after graduating and was one of the dumbest people I've ever known so I can't imagine he's doing much with his international affairs degree. Whereas if he had made the few hundred thousand (or more) that he was absolutely entitled to, that could have changed his life. It makes me mad seeing these kids get exploited for their NHL, NFL or whatever league dreams.

Plus if we fixed these rules, guys from the CHL or Europe could play NCAA hockey. That would be a nice option for a lot of them. Alas, the wage theft is far more important.
 
I think that at a certain point we have to recognize that these NCAA teams have nothing to do with their universities besides money and a place to play. The players are professional athletes that we set up rules against any payment so that we can exploit free labor. They don't learn anything because they don't spend any time on classes; they're too busy being professional athletes. Plus most of the schools won't let you take anything besides a few essentially fake degrees that they've set up specifically to keep people that don't belong in university from failing. I knew a guy who played football at Georgia Tech. He couldn't make it professionally after graduating and was one of the dumbest people I've ever known so I can't imagine he's doing much with his international affairs degree. Whereas if he had made the few hundred thousand (or more) that he was absolutely entitled to, that could have changed his life. It makes me mad seeing these kids get exploited for their NHL, NFL or whatever league dreams.

Plus if we fixed these rules, guys from the CHL or Europe could play NCAA hockey. That would be a nice option for a lot of them. Alas, the wage theft is far more important.

I think this is a fair ruling of D1 college football. There is so much money there that it is just crazy that they don't have to pay those kids anything.

I think there would be a lot of issues if colleges had to start paying hockey players in the US. Yes, the big teams could certainly do it absolutely no problem. The other 88% of schools wouldn't be able to afford it. They do offer some nice venues to play at and the truth is 90% of the players aren't doing it to go pro, they are doing it for the scholarship along with the other pluses that come along with playing D1 hockey. You would just see a loss of many D1 hockey programs across the country. We definitly don't need that. We don't exactly have many thriving hockey leagues in this country so I wouldn't expect another league is going to come in and offer a better/more attractive league than the NCAA.

A scholarship, free housing, free cafeteria card isn't exactly nothing either. Most of these kids aren't good enough to play in any leagues that pay any more than that equals.

I have 2 friends that played football, even went to camp and preseason with NFL teams. They ended up getting their degrees on full rides and are now employed via their degrees making a solid living. I have had multiple friends play D1 hockey, 1 went on to play for Rangers AHL team and the other LA AHL team for a couple years. One ended in NCCA. 2 of those kids did well with the school part and one was always a rock head and didn't do shit for a degree. Just because some people aren't smart doesn't mean others aren't and can't get a degree while playing a sport.
 
I think that at a certain point we have to recognize that these NCAA teams have nothing to do with their universities besides money and a place to play. The players are professional athletes that we set up rules against any payment so that we can exploit free labor. They don't learn anything because they don't spend any time on classes; they're too busy being professional athletes. Plus most of the schools won't let you take anything besides a few essentially fake degrees that they've set up specifically to keep people that don't belong in university from failing. I knew a guy who played football at Georgia Tech. He couldn't make it professionally after graduating and was one of the dumbest people I've ever known so I can't imagine he's doing much with his international affairs degree. Whereas if he had made the few hundred thousand (or more) that he was absolutely entitled to, that could have changed his life. It makes me mad seeing these kids get exploited for their NHL, NFL or whatever league dreams.

Plus if we fixed these rules, guys from the CHL or Europe could play NCAA hockey. That would be a nice option for a lot of them. Alas, the wage theft is far more important.
This might be the case for D1 P5 Football/basketball or true 1 and done pro hockey/baseball prospects like Eichel, but it definitely was not my experience with the hockey players at Northeastern. I had two of them in my diff eq class and both showed up and handed in their work just like everyone else.
 
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Yeah, it was a mixed bag at Michigan. I had classes with a bunch of football and hockey players. Some were smart and/or put in the work. Others were dumb and/or did not give a shit. And everything in between. Many would have never sniffed Michigan if it wasn't for their athletic prowess, and some of the football players did seem to get some special treatment behind the scenes.
 
Yeah, it was a mixed bag at Michigan. I had classes with a bunch of football and hockey players. Some were smart and/or put in the work. Others were dumb and/or did not give a shit. And everything in between. Many would have never sniffed Michigan if it wasn't for their athletic prowess, and some of the football players did seem to get some special treatment behind the scenes.

Perhaps the most famous Tweet about this issue. "We ain't come to play school."



But he since redeemed himself. Personal growth, you love to see it.

 
Yeah, it was a mixed bag at Michigan. I had classes with a bunch of football and hockey players. Some were smart and/or put in the work. Others were dumb and/or did not give a shit. And everything in between. Many would have never sniffed Michigan if it wasn't for their athletic prowess, and some of the football players did seem to get some special treatment behind the scenes.
I went to CMU, graduated in 2010 in Sports Management, my classes were filled with the athletes. I had a dozen classes with Antonio Brown. CMU accepts anyone with a pulse and a check.
 
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I went to CMU, graduated in 2010 in Sports Management, my classes were filled with the athletes. I had a dozen classes with Antonio Brown. CMU accepts anyone with a pulse and a check.

So was he always a bit insane or did that come on later?
 
I think that at a certain point we have to recognize that these NCAA teams have nothing to do with their universities besides money and a place to play. The players are professional athletes that we set up rules against any payment so that we can exploit free labor. They don't learn anything because they don't spend any time on classes; they're too busy being professional athletes. Plus most of the schools won't let you take anything besides a few essentially fake degrees that they've set up specifically to keep people that don't belong in university from failing. I knew a guy who played football at Georgia Tech. He couldn't make it professionally after graduating and was one of the dumbest people I've ever known so I can't imagine he's doing much with his international affairs degree. Whereas if he had made the few hundred thousand (or more) that he was absolutely entitled to, that could have changed his life. It makes me mad seeing these kids get exploited for their NHL, NFL or whatever league dreams.

Plus if we fixed these rules, guys from the CHL or Europe could play NCAA hockey. That would be a nice option for a lot of them. Alas, the wage theft is far more important.
For the most part a college degree is just a piece of paper that fulfills a requirement for corporate employers, 95%+ of people don't actually use their undergraduate degree in their job. People that do are usually in technical fields like architecture, engineering, etc.

College athletes are given the opportunity for education, whether or not they participate is up to them. The hockey player I knew at Cornell took their studies somewhat seriously, one of them got an education degree and went into teaching. Also had a hockey player in my engineering classes, you don't take engineering unless you're serious.

On the flip side, Dexter Manley (former NFL player) was functionally illiterate after "earning" a degree from Oklahoma State.
 
Yeah, it was a mixed bag at Michigan. I had classes with a bunch of football and hockey players. Some were smart and/or put in the work. Others were dumb and/or did not give a shit. And everything in between. Many would have never sniffed Michigan if it wasn't for their athletic prowess, and some of the football players did seem to get some special treatment behind the scenes.
What year? Class of '08! Go Blue!

I had a class with one guy on the team and we chatted quite a bit. But he was a 2nd stringer at best and likely was not going pro. We were in Calc together and I remember him acing a lot of the exams like it was nothing.

I would imagine that more of the 1st stringers weren't nearly as smart and/or focused on classes.
 
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