Prospect Info: #8OA, Marco Kasper

[newfy]

I haven't exactly been following the lead up to them, but the WJC 2022 website shows Austria in a group with The US, Sweden, Germany, & Switzerland?

Youre right. I think I read an article saying they were in the B tournament but maybe it was just that theyre in group B.

Either way I dont expect him to do much in that tournament hes not going to have any help. I'm sure he'll show some flashes but theres going to be people in here saying the sky is falling when hes not absolutely tearing the tourney up

 

[DoMakc]

A guy whose question mark is offensive creativity could actually benefit from juniors though, instead of playing limited minutes in a less offensive role. Its not just dunking for points to feel good. I'm good with him going to Rogle, but junior has its benefits too

I don't think Kasper does not know how to be creative. It is always the question can you be creative while playing at NHL speed. AHL or NHL 4th lines are full of creative junior players who could never adjust to NHL speed. That's why making a step back does make any sense.

 

[izlez]

Youre right. I think I read an article saying they were in the B tournament but maybe it was just that theyre in group B.

Either way I dont expect him to do much in that tournament hes not going to have any help. I'm sure he'll show some flashes but theres going to be people in here saying the sky is falling when hes not absolutely tearing the tourney up

Oh yeah, I don't expect his numbers to be impressive. But, in terms of development, 8 or so games against junior aged kids while being "THE guy" on the team is at least something when people are pushing the advantages of playing in the CHL

 

[RRhoads]

Slafkovsky's numbers are not imressive either. Kasper's numbers arr more impressive than his in the playoffs. In a better league.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Kasper is not going to the OHL. You can stop now.

 

[lilidk]

Kasper is not going to the OHL. You can stop now.

It was mistake not to play Seider in OHL . He could learn a lot there

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

It was mistake not to play Seider in OHL . He could learn a lot there

I can never tell when you're serious. I think you need a on every post.

 

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

It was mistake not to play Seider in OHL . He could learn a lot there

Not really analogous though. Seider never would've touched the SHL were it not for COVID. He got big opportunities in the AHL during his D+1.

If Kasper were guaranteed a big opportunity in Rogle then I don't think there would be much controversy here. If he's playing left wing on the third line and chipping in on the second powerplay unit for example, where he could have been playing a 1C with big special team minutes in Ottawa, I see merits to the latter option.

I think everybody is willing to acknowledge the drawbacks of CHL hockey. This board is weirdly resistant to acknowledging the drawbacks of the European men's leagues. Yzerman pretty clearly values our SHL scouting and developmental inroads highly, which is fair. It's pretty normal for organizations to have draft preferences - Carolina has generally prioritized Liiga, Ottawa with University of North Dakota, Winnipeg with University of Michigan, Anaheim like us values the SHL pretty highly, etc. But the hfboards counterculture that men's leagues are inherently better for development has always been nonsense, and I'm surprised it didn't die when it became evident that Jack Hughes was worth 7 Kaapo Kakko's despite BladeParadigm's insistence otherwise.

Edit: For what it's worth I have zero issue with Kasper playing for Rogle, I just think the OHL would have been a fine alternative with its own merits.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Not really analogous though. Seider never would've touched the SHL were it not for COVID. He got big opportunities in the AHL during his D+1.

If Kasper were guaranteed a big opportunity in Rogle then I don't think there would be much controversy here. If he's playing left wing on the third line and chipping in on the second powerplay unit for example, where he could have been playing a 1C with big special team minutes in Ottawa, I see merits to the latter option.

I think everybody is willing to acknowledge the drawbacks of CHL hockey. This board is weirdly resistant to acknowledging the drawbacks of the European men's leagues. Yzerman pretty clearly values our SHL scouting and developmental inroads highly, which is fair. It's pretty normal for organizations to have draft preferences - Carolina has generally prioritized Liiga, Ottawa with University of North Dakota, Winnipeg with University of Michigan, Anaheim like us values the SHL pretty highly, etc. But the hfboards counterculture that men's leagues are inherently better for development has always been nonsense, and I'm surprised it didn't die when it became evident that Jack Hughes was worth 7 Kaapo Kakko's despite BladeParadigm's insistence otherwise.

I don't think the CHL is a bad place for talent to develop. But what I do think is a bad idea is moving a player from a higher league to the CHL. It's usually a bad sign for that prospect.

Look at the number of guys that leave the NCAA because they can't hack it and how many success stories are there? I'd wager it's very few.

The SHL is objectively the better league than the OHL. Marco Kasper at 18 proved he could play regular minutes there when many others his age simply could not. And we saw him thrive in the postseason. We saw him thrive at the men's WHC for Austria. I'm confident we will see Kasper playing 15+ minutes a night in the SHL next season. The Abbott brothers went to the draft to talk to whoever drafted him and Detroit has a great relationship with that team already. It would be a total shocker if Kasper wasn't getting ice.

 

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

I don't think the CHL is a bad place for talent to develop. But what I do think is a bad idea is moving a player from a higher league to the CHL. It's usually a bad sign for that prospect.

Look at the number of guys that leave the NCAA because they can't hack it and how many success stories are there? I'd wager it's very few.

The SHL is objectively the better league than the OHL. Marco Kasper at 18 proved he could play regular minutes there when many others his age simply could not. And we saw him thrive in the postseason. We saw him thrive at the men's WHC for Austria. I'm confident we will see Kasper playing 15+ minutes a night in the SHL next season. The Abbott brothers went to the draft to talk to whoever drafted him and Detroit has a great relationship with that team already. It would be a total shocker if Kasper wasn't getting ice.

I would keep Kasper in Rogle primarily because I think he has a good working relationship with the staff there, Detroit has a good developmental track record with SHL talent, and he should compete for reasonable minutes. I think that chopping and changing kids too frequently, unless truly necessary, is not ideal. So to have him in Rogle U20 his D-1, Rogle men's his draft year, Ottawa his D+1, then Detroit or GR his D+2 for me is just too much change in environment.

To say he "thrived" in Rogle I think is pretty generous. He didn't look out of place, and that's great for someone his age. In terms of production, he thrived the same way that Adam Erne thrived in Detroit this year. The playoffs were a step in the right direction, that gives me faith that he'll earn a legitimate role on the team next year.

It's very common that a player is capable of playing in a higher league but a lower league is better for development. Owen Power 1000% would have looked comfortable in Rochester this year, but Michigan gave him a better opportunity to grow his game. Now again that's not apples and apples to Kasper, I think the stability that comes with a Rogle program that knows him is valuable. But development is about much more than playing in the best league that you can hack it in.

 

[haulinbass]

Not really analogous though. Seider never would've touched the SHL were it not for COVID. He got big opportunities in the AHL during his D+1.

If Kasper were guaranteed a big opportunity in Rogle then I don't think there would be much controversy here. If he's playing left wing on the third line and chipping in on the second powerplay unit for example, where he could have been playing a 1C with big special team minutes in Ottawa, I see merits to the latter option.

I think everybody is willing to acknowledge the drawbacks of CHL hockey. This board is weirdly resistant to acknowledging the drawbacks of the European men's leagues. Yzerman pretty clearly values our SHL scouting and developmental inroads highly, which is fair. It's pretty normal for organizations to have draft preferences - Carolina has generally prioritized Liiga, Ottawa with University of North Dakota, Winnipeg with University of Michigan, Anaheim like us values the SHL pretty highly, etc. But the hfboards counterculture that men's leagues are inherently better for development has always been nonsense, and I'm surprised it didn't die when it became evident that Jack Hughes was worth 7 Kaapo Kakko's despite BladeParadigm's insistence otherwise.

Edit: For what it's worth I have zero issue with Kasper playing for Rogle, I just think the OHL would have been a fine alternative with its own merits.

I do agree it is an interesting concept putting someone like Kasper in the OHL to develop his skills.

Where I really wouldn't mind seeing him play is in the NCAA. I think that would be pretty good middle ground. To me, I think the key with Kasper is tapping into and maximizing his skills. I have lots of confidence that he will adjust to the pro game just fine no matter where we developed him.

But I'm also pretty confident that part of the pitch with Kaspers represantation at the draft meeting with Yzerman was to assure him they will give him plenty of oppertunity if he comes back to Rogle. They didn't bother to show up just to say, hey let him come back and we will play him on the 4th line. I am completely happy with him there. It's more or less just an interesting concept to wrap your head around with this particular player in juniors.

 

[jaster]

I'd put Kasper in my beer league. On my team.

We're playing the top team tonight and I need some firepower. Imagine how much opportunity for offense he'd have in men's league! I bet he'd score at least 3 points.

WILL THIS EFFING SEASON START ALREADY!? I can only make so many puns and off-topic posts before Bench actually hangs himself, or me.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I'd put Kasper in my beer league. On my team.

We're playing the top team tonight and I need some firepower. Imagine how much opportunity for offense he'd have in men's league! I bet he'd score at least 3 points.

WILL THIS EFFING SEASON START ALREADY!? I can only make so many puns and off-topic posts before Bench actually hangs himself, or me.

But how would he hold up in a ball hockey league? Would his offense translate?

 

[Hen Kolland]

But how would he hold up in a ball hockey league? Would his offense translate?

Probably pretty well, I hear it’s the closest comparable to actual hockey

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Probably pretty well, I hear it’s the closest comparable to actual hockey

I hear that's where teams send their players to teach them how to play gritty playoff style hockey.

 

[WF19]

Detroit has a good relationship with Rogle, maybe they worked out that he gets big minutes and PP time or he was coming to NA?

 

[golffuul]

Detroit has a good relationship with Rogle, maybe they worked out that he gets big minutes and PP time or he was coming to NA?

The head coach had come over to be at the draft, to negotiate with whoever drafted Kasper, to try and convince that team to keep him in Rogle.

 

[TheOtherOne]

Kasper is not going to the OHL. You can stop now.

"no going back to Rogle"
DRW confirmed?

 

[MrRuin]

Interview with Kasper and his dad in yesterdays local newspaper (Kleine Zeitung, German, paywall
Eishockey: Entscheidung über die Zukunft von Marco Kasper ist gefallen | Kleine Zeitung). Key points:
- enjoyed the camp and the "first look" into the Detroit franchise immensely
- Yzerman left the decision where he plays next season up to Kasper and his camp. They chose Rögle which was always the plan for Kasper & co. Mentions perfect opportunities to develop in SHL, mentions Zetterberg and Kronwall as Detroit legends who tend to come to the SHL club every now and then to work with prospects. Mentions finishing school as well as a reason to stay another year.
- Detroit has the possibility to bring him to NA at any time, they have the last call
- Kasper is supposed to play center for Rögle and get icetime at that position - if his play warrants that. Otherwise they will most likely move him to the wing. That is up to coach Chris Abbot of course, but the general idea is to get Kasper time as center
- impressed with his good behaviour, shaking Draper's daughter's hand first at the draft made a very good impression

This may help clear up some open points about OHL, SHL etc. Ultimately I think Kasper is better off with another year in the SHL now that his professional future is basically laid out in front of him. It gives him time to get his basic education done and prepare a full year for professional hockey in NA.

 

[HisNoodliness]

Canadian Juniors make a lot sense for players who are at the appropriate development stage. For somebody who can keep up in men's league like Kapser, you are not going to learn a lot by dunking on cupcakes. You learning nothing but bad habits if you don't feel challanged. And being challenged is a big part of development.

Most people who say, somebody should go to a lower level, want to see points to feel better about a prospect, so they can feel more safe about his future.

I really do think that juniors actually wouldn't be the worst thing for Kasper. If I may demonstrate with an anecdote, in undergrad I played melee competitively. At first I was always playing against people way better than me, and even if I caught up to them, I'd just start playing people better than them. So I was always up against good competition and got really good at tricky movement, escaping combos, winning neutral situations and mind games. By the time I could functionally play games at tournaments everyone would comment "dude you're super tricky to play against, I can never get a solid read or close out kills even stuff I thought was guaranteed" but I still wasn't doing well because I would never finish stocks either. In fact I would often let certain situations to kill pass because I knew occasionally better players could turn it around on me if I didn't do it perfectly. I'd win neutral 2:1, but still get destroyed because they finished me off when they won neutral, and I got a bit of damage and retreated to safety when I won it.

Then I started teaching a few people worse than me how to play, and that meant instead of spending all my time figuring out how not to die, I was spending it figuring out how to get kills. My combos and punish game got way stronger and I started doing way better in tournaments. I got confident enough to go for risky kills and finished off people in situations I couldn't before. My tricky style never changed, but now people thought I was just good instead of tricky.

I think that there's a solid argument that Kasper is sort of like I was before I could punish. He's great at getting the puck and putting his team in a position to succeed, but he's not great at actually imposing that advantage on his opponents for points. Juniors wouldn't be a bad place for him to practice by taking that extra second to really aim his shots and put more power in them. He could try dangling players knowing that a failure doesn't mean getting run over by someone fifty pounds heavier and getting benched. He could figure out how to abuse defensive breakdowns and how to create them instead of taking the obvious play. Instead of dumping the puck and retreating to safety, he could try going for goals. Sure some of the tactics that work against juniors fall off at higher levels, but they still help teach you what to look for and how to exploit it.

I'm fine with him staying in Sweden, but I do think Kasper is precisely the player that may benefit from juniors.

 

[Gyldenlove]

I think Kasper would benefit from playing anywhere as long as he gets good ice time and offensive zone starts.

OHL would be good in that he would be one of the better players both athletically and technically, so he would be guaranteed lots of offensive zone play to build that part of his game. I like the SHL because of the increased physicality combined with the bigger ice sheet, he will be forced to be physical but will have time and space to play and develop his puck skills. That is what I don't like about sending teenagers to the AHL to play offense, the small ice and physicality seems to me to make it more difficult to really improve your puck handling game.

Conversely, I like the AHL for backs as they get to play the NHL rink size and get used to using the boards more and also have to really bulk up to deal with career AHLers.

 

[newfy]

Interview with Kasper and his dad in yesterdays local newspaper (Kleine Zeitung, German, paywall
Eishockey: Entscheidung über die Zukunft von Marco Kasper ist gefallen | Kleine Zeitung). Key points:
- enjoyed the camp and the "first look" into the Detroit franchise immensely
- Yzerman left the decision where he plays next season up to Kasper and his camp. They chose Rögle which was always the plan for Kasper & co. Mentions perfect opportunities to develop in SHL, mentions Zetterberg and Kronwall as Detroit legends who tend to come to the SHL club every now and then to work with prospects. Mentions finishing school as well as a reason to stay another year.
- Detroit has the possibility to bring him to NA at any time, they have the last call
- Kasper is supposed to play center for Rögle and get icetime at that position - if his play warrants that. Otherwise they will most likely move him to the wing. That is up to coach Chris Abbot of course, but the general idea is to get Kasper time as center
- impressed with his good behaviour, shaking Draper's daughter's hand first at the draft made a very good impression

This may help clear up some open points about OHL, SHL etc. Ultimately I think Kasper is better off with another year in the SHL now that his professional future is basically laid out in front of him. It gives him time to get his basic education done and prepare a full year for professional hockey in NA.

It sounds to me like they mighta made a deal for him to play center. I bet all that OHL talk stems from the wings thinking they might Nylaner him.

If he goes to Rogle and they wont play him at center dont be surprised if the wings bring him to North America after Christmas so he gets ice time down the middle

 

[RabidBadger]

I do agree it is an interesting concept putting someone like Kasper in the OHL to develop his skills.

Where I really wouldn't mind seeing him play is in the NCAA. I think that would be pretty good middle ground. To me, I think the key with Kasper is tapping into and maximizing his skills. I have lots of confidence that he will adjust to the pro game just fine no matter where we developed him.

But I'm also pretty confident that part of the pitch with Kaspers represantation at the draft meeting with Yzerman was to assure him they will give him plenty of oppertunity if he comes back to Rogle. They didn't bother to show up just to say, hey let him come back and we will play him on the 4th line. I am completely happy with him there. It's more or less just an interesting concept to wrap your head around with this particular player in juniors.

Kasper couldn't play in the NCAA since he's signed with the Wings. Playing in the SHL also prohibits him from college. Any pro play is a no-go. Even playing CHL will keep you out since the recieve a stipend for living expenses. Stupid rule, man.

 

[Christoph53]

Looks like no Kasper at the WJC

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Looks like no Kasper at the WJC

There's a conflict between training camp with Rogle. And honestly, I'm not too butthurt by this. Austria should be playing WJC D1A, not in the main WJC. Their program has a long way to go to even reach Germany's level.