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Prospect Info: 6th Overall Pick Moritz Seider, Defence, DEL

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NickH8 said:
His scouting reports sound very similar to Dobson's. Smooth skating and defensively sound. Good first pass. I think maybe his offensive game isn't obvious because he played in a pro league and couldn't put up the points. He seemed to do well the few times he played against his age group.
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Mannheim did not play him in offensive situations, as you alluded to, so his offense being a mystery is based largely on that. His offensive numbers look pretty good in tournaments; I didn't get to watch any of the world juniors, but he was better than a point per game (7 pts in 5 games) and was named the tournament's best defenseman. At the Worlds I did get to watch him in all but one of his games (France); he looked very comfortable on the PP, he and Draisaitl were, to me, the main standouts on that German team and on the German PP.

What stood out to me mainly and what made me want him on the Wings back when it seemed an impossibility were (in no specific order):
His breakout passes were hard, crisp and accurate - consistently.
He played big - not super physical or nasty, but he used his body well and was obviously a very strong kid even against NHLers.
He skated very well. Someone already referred to his cutting off D-Boss in the scrimmage against the United States. I won't say that he could keep pace with Larkin, but he did not look slow in the least. He is a very good skater and has good speed - one reason the Lilja comparisons were driving me nuts.
He was calm. I mean very calm, I saw no panic in his game and found that very impressive given his age.
He joined the rush a few times and looked very comfortable doing so, one of his goals came as a result of this, truly a beauty.
His positioning and stickwork in the defensive zone were very impressive; he struck me as a very smart player who didn't always need to use his size because he through the game well and was just about always in the right position.
He seemed to have some chemistry with Draisaitl, which, to me, spoke to both his skill level and on-ice IQ.

I totally agree with you in that his offensive game is not obvious because of the league he played in. Hopefully, wherever he plays next season, they put him in better offensive situations. If not, then he should not be playing there.
I'm super excited to have him on the Wings, I shouted out a f*** Yea! when Stevie called his name. The shout was as loud as it used to be for a big playoff goal (back when those were a thing for this team).
 
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Nut Upstrom said:
Mannheim did not play him in offensive situations, as you alluded to, so his offense being a mystery is based largely on that. His offensive numbers look pretty good in tournaments; I didn't get to watch any of the world juniors, but he was better than a point per game (7 pts in 5 games) and was named the tournament's best defenseman. At the Worlds I did get to watch him in all but one of his games (France); he looked very comfortable on the PP, he and Draisaitl were, to me, the main standouts on that German team and on the German PP.

What stood out to me mainly and what made me want him on the Wings back when it seemed an impossibility were (in no specific order):
His breakout passes were hard, crisp and accurate - consistently.
He played big - not super physical or nasty, but he used his body well and was obviously a very strong kid even against NHLers.
He skated very well. Someone already referred to his cutting off D-Boss in the scrimmage against the United States. I won't say that he could keep pace with Larkin, but he did not look slow in the least. He is a very good skater and has good speed - one reason the Lilja comparisons were driving me nuts.
He was calm. I mean very calm, I saw no panic in his game and found that very impressive given his age.
He joined the rush a few times and looked very comfortable doing so, one of his goals came as a result of this, truly a beauty.
His positioning and stickwork in the defensive zone were very impressive; he struck me as a very smart player who didn't always need to use his size because he through the game well and was just about always in the right position.
He seemed to have some chemistry with Draisaitl, which, to me, spoke to both his skill level and on-ice IQ.

I totally agree with you in that his offensive game is not obvious because of the league he played in. Hopefully, wherever he plays next season, they put him in better offensive situations. If not, then he should not be playing there.
I'm super excited to have him on the Wings, I shouted out a **** Yea! when Stevie called his name. The shout was as loud as it used to be for a big playoff goal (back when those were a thing for this team).
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If he can bring all of the things you mentioned as well as around 30 points a season this is a slam dunk pick in my opinion. If he had played in the OHL and scored 40-50 points in 60 games he would have been ranked higher.
 
Don't like it. Hate picking this kid over Cozens when he fell in our lap. Oh well. Hoping for the best but I'm not expecting much of anything.

These are the times, or picks, when I don't mind looking like a fool. Hopefully this kid is awesome and Cozens becomes a lost fairy-tale.
 
Tiesgo2vets said:
Holland has Yzerman's list and vice versa , Ken took a D two spots later. How can you say with certainty Holland wouldn't have taken Seider #8OA???
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According to a Khan article from Mlive there was an attempt to trade down but Stevie Y couldn't find a dance partner. I also read other teams might have nabbed him if he was available.

In short, I'm with you that trading down could have blown up in our face.
 
Yzerman's top pick its always been a little strange. He has never really found a true star with his first pick.

Brett Connolly - Connolly exploded up the draft rankings with his WHL1 numbers but as he got more scouting a lot of people soured on his mobility saying he didn't have the skating to hit the NHL score sheet. This was Yzerman's first ever draft pick after becoming a GM so not sure how much personal scouting he did on the draft class. Connolly is an NHL player but he certainly busted as a star. He did ping pong his way through trades to contribute to a stanley cup win. Maybe Yzerman saw the champion in him but he certainly never hit 6OA performance.

Vladislav Namestnikov - Vlad was picked around where he was ranked. There is not much to report from this draft class especially in the later round. This is also the draft where they got Kucherov. I'm guessing that they probably were high on Kucherov. So its nice to know he did show some patience and waited to use his second rounder on Kucherov while picking someone more consensus ranked with his first.

Slater Koekkoek - most rankings put Slater at the end of the first round Yzerman picked him 10OA. There was a run on D Troubla Rielly Reinhart Lindholm Pouliot Murray were all picked before him. It's almost like Yzerman drafts by position and still drafts the next guy on the list even if he is off the board. This pick was a big reach and did not work out

Jonathan Drouin - not off the board at all. It was one of the most diverse top rankings I remember seeing. The top 4 were all on various people's 1OA but I am personally surprised he passed on Jones. Kinda funny Drouin's stay with the lightning was controversial and whe was eventually traded for a dynamite D prospect. Imagine if they picked Jones. Unfortunately, out of the top 4 he did manage to pick the guy that struggled the most to become a star. But some of that might be on Tampa's development and burying a 3OA pick in the AHL. Thank goodness they had another first round pick to get Andrei Vasilevskiy

Anthony DeAngelo - picked around where he was ranked, don't know much about him but Yzerman ended up trading him for a 2016 second round pick.

Brett Howden - picked around where he was ranked looks to have a serviceable NHL career. Yzerman packaged up Howden and Namestnikov and his 2018 first round pick in the McDonagh trade.



I think the most comparable pick in this list to Seider is the Koekkoek pick. Its like he was committed to picking a D, but the consensus ranking D were already taken. So he still picked a D even through it was a reach.
 
mantha39 said:
Draper said if you traded down you weren't getting him.
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Kind of a werid Draft because of the way the GM's all changed. Yzerman probably had Seider high on Tamp's list and Holland probably also knew Seider was high on the Red Wings list. So I agree they would have felt he wouldn't make it to a later pick.
 
Retire91 said:
Yzerman's top pick its always been a little strange. He has never really found a true star with his first pick.

Brett Connolly - Connolly exploded up the draft rankings with his WHL1 numbers but as he got more scouting a lot of people soured on his mobility saying he didn't have the skating to hit the NHL score sheet. This was Yzerman's first ever draft pick after becoming a GM so not sure how much personal scouting he did on the draft class. Connolly is an NHL player but he certainly busted as a star. He did ping pong his way through trades to contribute to a stanley cup win. Maybe Yzerman saw the champion in him but he certainly never hit 6OA performance.

Vladislav Namestnikov - Vlad was picked around where he was ranked. There is not much to report from this draft class especially in the later round. This is also the draft where they got Kucherov. I'm guessing that they probably were high on Kucherov. So its nice to know he did show some patience and waited to use his second rounder on Kucherov while picking someone more consensus ranked with his first.

Slater Koekkoek - most rankings put Slater at the end of the first round Yzerman picked him 10OA. There was a run on D Troubla Rielly Reinhart Lindholm Pouliot Murray were all picked before him. It's almost like Yzerman drafts by position and still drafts the next guy on the list even if he is off the board. This pick was a big reach and did not work out

Jonathan Drouin - not off the board at all. It was one of the most diverse top rankings I remember seeing. The top 4 were all on various people's 1OA but I am personally surprised he passed on Jones. Kinda funny Drouin's stay with the lightning was controversial and whe was eventually traded for a dynamite D prospect. Imagine if they picked Jones. Unfortunately, out of the top 4 he did manage to pick the guy that struggled the most to become a star. But some of that might be on Tampa's development and burying a 3OA pick in the AHL. Thank goodness they had another first round pick to get Andrei Vasilevskiy

Anthony DeAngelo - picked around where he was ranked, don't know much about him but Yzerman ended up trading him for a 2016 second round pick.

Brett Howden - picked around where he was ranked looks to have a serviceable NHL career. Yzerman packaged up Howden and Namestnikov and his 2018 first round pick in the McDonagh trade.



I think the most comparable pick in this list to Seider is the Koekkoek pick. Its like he was committed to picking a D, but the consensus ranking D were already taken. So he still picked a D even through it was a reach.
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I have similar concerns, specifically on how he (Stevie) has never really hit on a a defenseman to date.

But regarding Koekkoek, don’t you think that’s something you would learn from? Seems like that is a mistake you would make sure not to make twice. I have to believe they took Seider because he was really high on their board, not because of his position.
 
I don't know how comparable Koekkoek is to Seider either as a player or as a pick. Koekkoek was seen as a late 1st rounder, played in the OHL and was projected as a puck-moving, offensive D-man. Those type of players tend to project as "Paul Coffey or minor leagues" boom/bust players. I think that ambivalence was expressed in his ranking .

I don't think Seider's profile is comparable as a player for one, and also being from a secondary hockey nation and not having played junior in NA it's a different scouting scenario too. Seider has become certainly a more highly regarded prospect than Koekkoek was.
 
Apparently Seider is one of only 3 draft eligible(U18) players who made their national team and played in the 2019 World Championships. The other 2: Hughes and Kaako, who were drafted 1 and 2 in the NHL draft. Seider scored 2 goals there and seems to have performed okay even at that level(men's) against a lot of NHL players.

Other highly regarded kids in the top 15 in the NHL draft had better stats but it was mostly against other kids at close to their age level in their respective leagues or competitions. Seider seems to have done well at the men's level in the German league and at the World Championships.
 
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The Zermanator said:
I'd say it was way off the board. He was projected by most public rankings to go around mid-first. That's why there was such a reaction from the crowd, the commentators, and even Seider himself when he went #6. While ~10 spots may not be a lot in the 2nd round and beyond, it's quick a big difference in the top 15. If Hughes went #3 that's only 2 spots down but the whole hockey world would have blown up, for example.

Anyway that's not to knock on the pick. Kid's clearly got lots of potential with great physical tools and hasn't had the exposure that some of the other top picks have gotten. Part of that was the apparent belief by most of the hockey sphere that he would go between ~12-20. Hopefully Yzerman and Co. are correct that he has a lot of room to grow and he becomes what we need him to.
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Maybe there's a world where Seider lasts to around 15. I doubt we're living in it, though. Mock drafts were all wrong. They almost universally had 1 or 2 D going in the top 10, and maybe one more by pick 12. Instead we saw 3 D taken in the top 10 and 4 in the top 11. So much for so called draft experts.

You're greatly exaggerating the difference between a projected #1 overall slipping compared to a projected top 10 or 15 player being taken at #6. When literally everybody agrees on the best player in the draft, of course it would be a massive shock if the team with the #1 pick doesn't take them... and then they get passed over again. That just never happens. On the other hand, it is not unusual at all in a grouping of six or ten players for one to go higher or lower than projected. Seider's stock went up, Caufield's went down. This happens basically every draft.

If you think Detroit taking Seidor at #6 is going way off board then I think you need to re-calibrate your expectations on how drafts work. If everything was black and white and there was no room for subjectivity then there would be no need for drafts to be conducted as they are. Computers would crunch the numbers and the draft would be done in minutes.
 
Yeah we'll see on this pick. I like it but I havent seen him play.

I also feel like these late risers actual rises take more time to become reflected in mock drafts and rankings by the general public compared to how they moev up with NHL clubs. Scheifele was mentioned on here as a big riser in his draft year that worked out. I think Lindholm is a good example ofa guy who was a reach but worked out being piked 6th.

Give it time and we'll see how this pick goes but I like the size and especially wing span with his skating ability
 
I like this pick the more I consider it. I think it kind of echoes what some of us on here were thinking. We had some divisions between guys who wanted one center or another if the top choices were taken. However, the idea to take our defender of choice instead of a second-choice center came up and seemed to go over universally well. I don't know that any of us really knew that would happen, but it did. And I like Seider more than I like Cozens, Zegras or Krebs at this point.
 
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InjuredChoker said:
yzerman said back then that koekkoek was BPA.

and al murray made those picks (save for connolly), not yzerman.
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I remember seeing Koekkoek because I had gone to watch Alan Quine after we drafted him. I remember lamenting why Koekkoek was hyped as he didn't seem to excel at anything in particular. Can't specifically remember if that was before or after his draft year. (I thought Quine was a decent player and deserved more ice time but was second fiddle to Austin Watson.)
 
Not sure if someone's posted this already but here's Hakan on Seider:
“I think he can be, really, a very solid — I want to say top-two defenseman,” he said. “I think that’s the upside. I think he’s very smart with the puck; I think it’s going to come out more. Obviously great size. I like his mobility. He leans on guys in his own end. It’s not a guy that you just walk by to get to the net. Very good all-around package with upside and size, and actually upside with the puck, too, I would say.”
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For what it's worth, HockeyProspect.com had Seider #10 in their final ranking. Recrutes (Grant McCagg) had him #8. Drafting Europe had him the #3 European player and a Top-10 pick. Draper was pretty emphatic that if they didn't take him #6 they weren't getting him.
 
I was never really against this pick, at least once the initial shock had passed when we were so close to Turcotte. But I’m really starting to love it the more I’ve learned of Seider and from the video I’ve watched.

He’s got a lot of Hedman qualities. He’s so young but seems very mature and he plays with a calm poise. I think he will fill his frame out well and be a monster to play against. With his size, skating, and physical play I don’t see him falling short of the NHL.

What remains to be seen is whether he really has the hidden offensive potential that our new management team thinks he has. I have a lot of faith in Yzerman and Andersson’s eye for talent so I’m optimistic. And if the rumours that they keyed in on him weeks ago are true then seems they are too. So excited to see what Seider becomes.
 
Edmonton took Broberg at 8. Have to figure Seider would have been considered there. As was mentioned during the telecast - Yzerman was operating off two lists - TB's and Detroits, but I bet Yzerman was kept further than arms length from TB's draft board and scouting given he left the FO and was an "adviser" who many expected would be leaving.

Holland was also operating off two lists - Detroit Scouts and Edmonton Scouts. And Holland would have been neck deep with our scouting as he expected to stay here had he not got a Godfather offer from the Oilers.
 
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