Prospect Info: 6th Overall Pick Moritz Seider, Defence, DEL

[raymond23]

If you want to watch Seider play a good game against NHLers, watch this. The speed, defensive play, puck skills, etc... all on display. He's #21. For reference, #5 is Korbinian Holzer of Anaheim. Seider is the better player, I think.

My takeaways from this game.

Pros:
Athletic freak
Fantastic skater
Good job defending the rush
Very composed with the puck
Constantly scanning the ice
Very hard to stop once he gets going

Cons:
His inexperience showed a lot
Picked odd times to jump into the play
Flew the zone a lot when he really should have slowed down
Felt like he would get lost on the ice sometimes, spacing was off with teammates

You can definitely see a HUGE upside but his inexperience showed in this game. Have to remember that he was freshly 18 at this tournament.

 

[raymond23]

Trade down.
Get an extra asset or two.
This kid still would have been there.
To take him that early is just bonkers.

From the sounds of it, you are incorrect.

 

[DRW204]

Not sure if this was posted:
Prospect Deep Dive: Moritz Seider – Hockey Prospects – DobberProspects

 

[Retire91]

There seems to be a lot of press that no one was willing to trade up, or at least not offer anything worth while to trade up. The wings next pick was 35, there is no way in heck this kid would be there at 35. Seider was either our scouts' overall BPA or he was their BPA D. If he was just their BPA D then they simply gave up their overall BPA to draft a position of need. At 6th overall I expect management sees him as a top pairing but even if Seider turns out to be a legit second pairing I would be fine with this pick. Seems like his NHL readiness is actually pretty close so we might even know if only a season or two.

It also sounds like his role has been defense focused. Its quite possible the scouts saw more offensive capability and the score sheet did not alert the rest of the scouting world. If he put up numbers it sounds like he is capable of his consensus ranking would have been a lot higher. Most of the scouting reports on him mention his skating and passing skills is being excellent. That should hit the score sheet and be great for getting out of our zone which is something the team has had problems with since losing lidstrom and kronwall's decline.

 

[ChadS]

All-time U18 d-man at the World Championships:
Elite Prospects - WC Stats All-time season

Also all-time highest scoring U18 d-man at the Div-1 WJC:
Elite Prospects - WJC-20 D1A Stats All-time season

Right now I'm confident that his offensive game will not keep him from becoming a key part of the Red Wings blue line down the road. I think some misunderstood Yzerman's message when he said Seider is a two-way guy instead of an offensive guy.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Steve Yzerman was just on 97.1 this morning and confirmed Seider was ranked #6 on our board. There are a number of teams that could have jumped at Seider. Buffalo, Edmonton, Anaheim, even Vancouver were a risk. Philadelphia traded back and landed Cam York, probably because they were eyeing either Seider or Broberg (obviously they could have taken Soderstrom, but didn't take him).

It's so easy to say "Well f*** it, just trade back. You can trade back easily." But in reality, the variables are a bit harder to predict. You rank someone #6 overall and your top 5 are gone; you believe there's a chance that someone might take him if you move back; the trade offers you have on the table aren't clear wins for the team. What would you do in the moment?

In retrospect, should the team have traded for 10 and #40 for example? Potentially. Had they done so, they would have had a good chance at leaving with Seider/Broberg/Podkolzin/other name at #10, Tuomisto at #35, and if we look at some names available at #40, we could have picked up Hoglander (40), Vlasic (43), Rees (44). It's so easy to do this in retrospect, but in the moment, are you comfortable in assuming that the value of pick #40 ended up being what it was? That's the sticking point, and I can't blame the organization in guaranteeing themselves the BPA on their list if the trade offers weren't substantial.

 

[DeYarmond Edison]

This pick is getting laughed at by everyone right now.....

Honestly I think Yzerman has run his course here as GM. Wouldn't you agree? Are you available to hire?

Man, what a reach this kid was.

 

[DeYarmond Edison]

Oh and some of you need to hear this:

IT TAKES ***2*** TEAMS TO TRADE DOWN IN A DRAFT. YOU CANNOT CHOOSE TO DO IT AT WILL.

 

[SuperScript29]

All-time U18 d-man at the World Championships:
Elite Prospects - WC Stats All-time season

Also all-time highest scoring U18 d-man at the Div-1 WJC:
Elite Prospects - WJC-20 D1A Stats All-time season

Right now I'm confident that his offensive game will not keep him from becoming a key part of the Red Wings blue line down the road. I think some misunderstood Yzerman's message when he said Seider is a two-way guy instead of an offensive guy.

Yea watching some of the games you get the hint that Seider is a complete dman, not an offensive guy. If he scores 50+ points then great, but he'll still be a very valuable player even if he just manages 30+ points. I think his offense will eventually develop into a 40-50 point guy that plays a complete game. I love this pick.

 

[Frk It]

These kids develop well, and we could have a nice mix on the back end.

Cholowski-Seider
McIsaac-Hronek
Johansson-Tuomisto/Lindstrom

OFD-TWD
TWD-OFD
OFD-TWD

LH-RH
LH-RH
LH-RH

I feel pretty good about Hronek running the top PP for the next 5-10 years, I think we needed to get a guy who can play 24+ min a night and not need to be sheltered. Hopefully Seider will be that guy.

PP1
Cholowski-Hronek

PK1
McIsaac-Seider

 

[Hen Kolland]

These kids develop well, and we could have a nice mix on the back end.

Cholowski-Seider
McIsaac-Hronek
Johansson-Tuomisto/Lindstrom

OFD-TWD
TWD-OFD
OFD-TWD

LH-RH
LH-RH
LH-RH

I feel pretty good about Hronek running the top PP for the next 5-10 years, I think we needed to get a guy who can play 24+ min a night and not need to be sheltered. Hopefully Seider will be that guy.

PP1
Cholowski-Hronek

PK1
McIsaac-Seider

Think we probably don't run two defensemen on the powerplay. Unless we get a right handed shot for the powerplay, I would like to see something like:

Rasmussen-Larkin-Athanasiou(?)
Hronek-Zadina

Bertuzzi-Veleno-Hirose(?)
Seider-Mantha

Trying not to make assumptions of non-roster players or long term prospects making it. Veleno and Seider are the only two assumptions. Struggling with who the extra wing would or should be.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Again:

Buffalo, Anaheim, and Vancouver all were very likely going forward.

Edmonton was locked into Broberg.

Philadelphia (or Arizona, if they still traded up) at 11 was the first probable landing spot for Seider.

If Yzerman asked 7-10 and nobody would part with even a minor asset, so be it. But it seems hard to believe that none of those teams would part with anything at all for their choice of Cozens and Zegras.

I'm cheering for Seider because he's a Red Wing. But the majority of scouts and talking heads had him ranked closer to 16 than 6. That doesn't mean he can't become an awesome pick - but it very likely means he could've still been had a few slots later.

guys like söderström and broberg also went a lot earlier than most 'talking heads' had them ranked. D-men very often go earlier than ranked. I didn't follow the pre-draft super close but I seem to recall a lot of people saying after the top ~5 there was a bunch of guys on a similar level so it shouldn't have been surprising that the order of those guys ended up different than rankings. I also don't see any reason why teams would have been desperate to move up, especially if as you say Edmonton was for sure taking Broberg anyway and several teams were locked into forwards (meaning no reason to feel a need to jump up ahead of Detroit/Edmonton who were going with D).

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Oh and some of you need to hear this:

IT TAKES ***2*** TEAMS TO TRADE DOWN IN A DRAFT. YOU CANNOT CHOOSE TO DO IT AT WILL.

Oh, I thought Yzerman can just call any random team and they do what he says.

 

[Frk It]

Think we probably don't run two defensemen on the powerplay. Unless we get a right handed shot for the powerplay, I would like to see something like:

Rasmussen-Larkin-Athanasiou(?)
Hronek-Zadina

Bertuzzi-Veleno-Hirose(?)
Seider-Mantha

Trying not to make assumptions of non-roster players or long term prospects making it. Veleno and Seider are the only two assumptions. Struggling with who the extra wing would or should be.

Hard to say - may have a different coach or different system.

But I think we might get back to running 2 defenseman on the PP if it returns to being a strength for the team. That was my thought process.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Hard to say - may have a different coach or different system.

But I think we might get back to running 2 defenseman on the PP if it returns to being a strength for the team. That was my thought process.

I suppose it makes sense if you take out the extra wing. It depends what the need is. If Larkin and Veleno in those scenarios are competent in the bumper role, then you are really looking someone to run the left half wall or switch with the RHD and walk the point. I like the senses that Hirose displays; he doesn't waste time with the puck on his stick. A lot of the time if feels like he knows what he wants to do before the puck gets there, and that's great for keeping the pace and puck movement high to create breakdowns. Honestly, I could live without Athanasiou on the powerplay. I don't like how he plays in the offensive zone. Maybe you want him as the bumper because he has teed up some one times from that spot in the past, and you can flex Veleno to the half wall. I think he actually plays pretty well there when I have seen him running the powerplay.

Which, just a small note, I can't wait for Veleno's season this year where I don't have to listen to the French play-by-play feed. With that being said, I'll let the thread get back on the rails.

I really want Seider to study Pietrangelo film. I think he fits the mold, and it's the one thing we all want for this team. Someone who can play 30 minutes if he's needed. He will shut down the top lines, and he can chip in on the powerplay if he's needed. Pietrangelo is the best case scenario in my eyes, which is great because there aren't many defensemen that I would want over him.

 

[The Zermanator]

Hard to say - may have a different coach or different system.

But I think we might get back to running 2 defenseman on the PP if it returns to being a strength for the team. That was my thought process.

Yeah having 1 dman on the ice has been more a reflection of available personnel than anything. Beyond Green and Kronwall we haven’t really had any dmen worth a damn on the PP until Hronek’s appearance.

 

[Maverick41]

One thing Seider is pretty good at when he plays on the power play is keeping the puck in the offensive zone.
He has great reach is really good at anticipating where the puck will go and is very mobile walking the blueline.
If the rest of his game will warrant him seeing the ice on the PP, we'll have to wait and see.

 

[HisNoodliness]

One thing Seider is pretty good at when he plays on the power play is keeping the puck in the offensive zone.
He has great reach is really good at anticipating where the puck will go and is very mobile walking the blueline.
If the rest of his game will warrant him seeing the ice on the PP, we'll have to wait and see.

I've noticed that in everything I've watched from him. He frequently makes good reads on zone exits, and his skating/reach make him very effective at closing them off. He also seems to have a great ability to move the puck quickly when he receives it-he has already worked out his options and can one-touch a pass to a teammate, take a shot or move immediately upon getting it. Those are pretty huge assets that show his hockey IQ.

 

[A Few Good Males]

Was lucky enough to be at the draft.. And that gasp that went through the arena when Stevie announced the pick is something I will never forget.

 

[Shaman464]

These kids develop well, and we could have a nice mix on the back end.

Cholowski-Seider
McIsaac-Hronek
Johansson-Tuomisto/Lindstrom

OFD-TWD
TWD-OFD
OFD-TWD

LH-RH
LH-RH
LH-RH

I feel pretty good about Hronek running the top PP for the next 5-10 years, I think we needed to get a guy who can play 24+ min a night and not need to be sheltered. Hopefully Seider will be that guy.

PP1
Cholowski-Hronek

PK1
McIsaac-Seider

This is a very optimistic view. Cholo doesn't look like he has the tools to be a top pairing D guy. And Seider has never played on North American ice, form a league that has never been known to produce elite talent (Seidenberg, and Ehrhoff are the only two major players to come out of that league). The chances that they both hit as top guys is near 0. Though I am much more hopeful Seider will become a #2 defensive d-man than I am that Cholo becomes more than a #4 PMD.

 

[Maverick41]

This is a very optimistic view. Cholo doesn't look like he has the tools to be a top pairing D guy. And Seider has never played on North American ice, form a league that has never been known to produce elite talent (Seidenberg, and Ehrhoff are the only two major players to come out of that league). The chances that they both hit as top guys is near 0. Though I am much more hopeful Seider will become a #2 defensive d-man than I am that Cholo becomes more than a #4 PMD.

Not to be too nitpicky, but I would say Marco Sturm, Jochen Hecht and even Marcel Goc were decent players drafted out of the DEL. Unless you meant just defensemen, then you are correct I think.

 

[Ricelund]

Who are the best high/low-end comps for Seider? I read something on the main board that made me think of Ohlund. Is that fair high-end projection?

High: Ohlund
Low: Lilja

 

[ShanahanMan]

If you want to watch Seider play a good game against NHLers, watch this. The speed, defensive play, puck skills, etc... all on display. He's #21. For reference, #5 is Korbinian Holzer of Anaheim. Seider is the better player, I think.

Not bad, but nothing in the game screams to me “6 overall”.

 

[Shaman464]

Not to be too nitpicky, but I would say Marco Sturm, Jochen Hecht and even Marcel Goc were decent players drafted out of the DEL. Unless you meant just defensemen, then you are correct I think.

I went with the best two players. The ones you named were NHLers, but not world burning my any stretch.

 

[Frk It]

This is a very optimistic view. Cholo doesn't look like he has the tools to be a top pairing D guy. And Seider has never played on North American ice, form a league that has never been known to produce elite talent (Seidenberg, and Ehrhoff are the only two major players to come out of that league). The chances that they both hit as top guys is near 0. Though I am much more hopeful Seider will become a #2 defensive d-man than I am that Cholo becomes more than a #4 PMD.

I'll just remind you that you absolutely hammered AA for years and he scored 30 goals this year...

Why are you so down on Cholowski? Kid has made a ton of progress since being drafted.