Prospect Info: 6th Overall Pick Moritz Seider, Defence, DEL

[Michael Brand Eggs]

I feel like the thing dividing people about this one is not knowing the context of all these scouting reports or whatever. People are taking comments from February or whatever and pretending like they're 100% relevant now. But sort of like Kotkaniemi, Seider had a massive spike in value in those last two months.

I think how it went is this: Seider started off the year in Mannheim, but wasn't getting to play much. Scouts sometimes couldn't even see him because he would be scratched or played like 8 minutes that game. Then he went off to the Div 1 WJC and absolutely destroyed it. He was the best defenseman, second in total points just 1 point behind Dominik Bokk (the first round pick, I might add). Scouts were kind of like: "Hmm. That's intriguing, but it's not a very high level of play."

Then over the remainder of the year, Seider got a little more icetime in Mannheim and did very well. Yeah, he only put up 6 points, but his average icetime was supposedly like 12 min a game at the end of the year... and he didn't play on the power play at all. Somewhere in there, he goes to the combine and dazzles GMs with his interviews. (Also a very high VO2max, which is one of the best predictors of playing pro games.) He goes back to Mannheim, plays well en route to winning the DEL championship. 5 points in 14 games, which isn't great, but, again, he's getting almost no icetime and no PP time.

Then he goes to the World Championships and plays very well against NHLers. (There's a nice clip of him defending Larkin at one point.) He shows more offensive upside at the WC, so now some of the scouts who were doubting the Div 1 WJC thing are rethinking their position on it. They're thinking: if Seider has more offense than we thought, he could be a very high end prospect, because he already had everything else.

And so that's how his stock went from good but not great to through the roof.

 

[Hale The Villain]

I like this pick for you guys.

This reminds me of when the Ducks "reached" for Hampus Lindholm at 6 back in 2012. Big time riser that has all the tools and could be a stud top pairing RD.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Big player with questionable puck handling and an offensive black hole. He plays in one the most terrible leagues in the world and still can’t muster points.

This pick is a joke.

There's the minor difference that Seider was a 17 year old prospect who was playing in a league against grown men.

If you guys are seriously freaking out already that he is Ericsson 2.0, it's probably time to step away from the computer and go outside for a walk.

 

[Bench]

Over on the prospects board it's kind of insane how many non-Wings fans were calling Seider to the Wings months ago. We have some lucky as hell folks or super secret insiders?

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

I feel like the thing dividing people about this one is not knowing the context of all these scouting reports or whatever. People are taking comments from February or whatever and pretending like they're 100% relevant now. But sort of like Kotkaniemi, Seider had a massive spike in value in those last two months.

I think how it went is this: Seider started off the year in Mannheim, but wasn't getting to play much. Scouts sometimes couldn't even see him because he would be scratched or played like 8 minutes that game. Then he went off to the Div 1 WJC and absolutely destroyed it. He was the best defenseman, second in total points just 1 point behind Dominik Bokk (the first round pick, I might add). Scouts were kind of like: "Hmm. That's intriguing, but it's not a very high level of play."

Then over the remainder of the year, Seider got a little more icetime in Mannheim and did very well. Yeah, he only put up 6 points, but his average icetime was supposedly like 12 min a game at the end of the year... and he didn't play on the power play at all. Somewhere in there, he goes to the combine and dazzles GMs with his interviews. (Also a very high VO2max, which is one of the best predictors of playing pro games.) He goes back to Mannheim, plays well en route to winning the DEL championship. 5 points in 14 games, which isn't great, but, again, he's getting almost no icetime and no PP time.

Then he goes to the World Championships and plays very well against NHLers. (There's a nice clip of him defending Larkin at one point.) He shows more offensive upside at the WC, so now some of the scouts who were doubting the Div 1 WJC thing are rethinking their position on it. They're thinking: if Seider has more offense than we thought, he could be a very high end prospect, because he already had everything else.

And so that's how his stock went from good but not great to through the roof.

Thanks for connecting the dots for us Armchair GM's & scouts. I'm sure some/most real GM's & scouts realize this to varying degrees, but are/were married to their other picks, I like the pick once Dach & Byram were gone.

 

[Henkka]

I like this pick for you guys.

This reminds me of when the Ducks "reached" for Hampus Lindholm at 6 back in 2012. Big time riser that has all the tools and could be a stud top pairing RD.

Same memories come in mind.

 

[Perfect Human]

Brad Stuart with more offense?

 

[Richard Gibson]

Seider, will likely play another season with the Mannheim Eagles of the top German league.

 

[Syckle78]

People were mocking us and laughing in the main draft board but that’s it

The main board is a cesspool.

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

There's the minor difference that Seider was a 17 year old prospect who was playing in a league against grown men.

If you guys are seriously freaking out already that he is Ericsson 2.0, it's probably time to step away from the computer and go outside for a walk.

Yeah because heaven forbid we’re not having a parade because of the pick

 

[Ezekial]

Over on the prospects board it's kind of insane how many non-Wings fans were calling Seider to the Wings months ago. We have some lucky as hell folks or super secret insiders?

I loved that the guy who posted it on June 6th was asked to "back that up" and he simply said "No."
That's a guy who knows a guy.

 

[Gniwder]

There's the minor difference that Seider was a 17 year old prospect who was playing in a league against grown men.

If you guys are seriously freaking out already that he is Ericsson 2.0, it's probably time to step away from the computer and go outside for a walk.

Going for a walk....

 

[DEWing]

Have you watched Seider in person? Want to share your take?

Yes, I've watched Seider regularly and had him right behind Byram on my list.

He has a tremendous hockey IQ, is a great skater and likes to join the rush. The comparisons to Brandon Carlo are severely lacking, to put it mildly. Seider has basically no glaring flaws & quite a lot of offensive upside. The latter may come as surprise to some. He is the complete package.

 

[Christien]

Yes, I've watched Seider regularly and had him right behind Byram on my list.

He has a tremendous hockey IQ, is a great skater, and likes to join the rush. The comparisons to Brandon Carlo are severely lacking, to put it mildly. Seider has basically no glaring flaws & quite a lot of offensive upside. The latter may come as surprise to some. He is the complete package.

It's just such a lazy comparison. I like Craig Button a lot, but that comparison really pissed me off. Carlo is a great player don't get me wrong, but come on.

 

[Bench]

People were mocking us and laughing in the main draft board but that’s it

Like that matters. Everyone on HFBoards was laughing at the Jets for taking Mark Scheifele in 2011, too. And he's proven to be the best pick at that spot.

The Jets were draft "losers" that day to general opinion for reaching on that kid.

Oh and that same draft the Wings were losers for not getting their guy Tyler Biggs and trading down. Yeah.

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

Like that matters. Everyone on HFBoards was laughing at the Jets for taking Mark Scheifele in 2011, too. And he's proven to be the best pick at that spot.

The Jets were draft "losers" that day to general opinion for reaching on that kid.

Oh and that same draft the Wings were losers for not getting their guy Tyler Biggs and trading down. Yeah.

And the whole getting Datsyuk and Hank in the 6th and 7th round

 

[Hen Kolland]

General fan base: “No highlights, no stats, no good”

 

[FireBird71]

Seider, will likely play another season with the Mannheim Eagles of the top German league.

That’s not what Yzerman said

 

[Konnan511]

Brad Stuart with more offense?

Helm with hands.

 

[DRW204]

Delete

 

[HisNoodliness]

Yes, I've watched Seider regularly and had him right behind Byram on my list.

He has a tremendous hockey IQ, is a great skater and likes to join the rush. The comparisons to Brandon Carlo are severely lacking, to put it mildly. Seider has basically no glaring flaws & quite a lot of offensive upside. The latter may come as surprise to some. He is the complete package.

Here's some specific questions, if you're not sure on some no worries:
As far as skating how'd you rate his agility, acceleration and top speed? Does he close gaps on defenders well? If they get by him can he pivot and catch up?

In the offensive zone how well does he get his shot through? Is he most dangerous pinching down to the circles or does he prefer to walk the line and put shots through? Is he more of a shooter or a passer?

 

[Gniwder]

General fan base: “No highlights, no stats, no good”

It's just not an exciting pick any way you look at it.

I have faith in Stevie, and the team has a huge hole in the back end so it is what it is.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

It's just such a lazy comparison. I like Craig Button a lot, but that comparison really pissed me off. Carlo is a great player don't get me wrong, but come on.

Craig doesn't believe in his offense so the comparison makes sense from that standpoint. I loved Carlo in his draft year and still am a big fan, but Seider has more upside while not being as physical.

People can laugh at this pick. I see a floor of a second pairing shutdown dman with top pairing ceiling. We went for the homerun no qualms with that. Preferred Broberg but the same logic applied here.

 

[2xJack]

They went way off board for this pick, just gotta hope he’s got the potential they see in him. He’s a Red Wing now so I’m rooting for him 100%.

He does have some very exciting tools and attributes, hopefully he ends up having a Hedman-like impact for us.

Maybe I'm parsing words too much, but I don't see this pick as being way off board. Seider was a solid first round pick according to consensus. He was the 6th ranked European skater in the final rankings, and some talent evaluators had him pegged as the second best D prospect in the draft behind Byram.

Yzerman could probably have traded down a bit and still gotten him, but it is not like this was a second round or later player that we way overreached for. I'd say we went a little off board, nothing worse. In a perfect world, Yzerman would have traded down into the 10-15 range and grabbed Seider more where his stock had him. Apparently there wasn't a worthwhile deal, though. I read that Yzerman did attempt to move down.

What I will say is this feels, at least to me, very much like a need pick rather than a value one / BPA strategy. Maybe in Yzerman's eyes Seider was a top 5 talent in this draft and he was the BPA. I'm skeptical of that idea. I kind of think the fact that our pool of young forwards is deeper than our pool of D prospects played a much bigger part than Yzerman let on. I had pretty much concluded in my mind prior to the draft lottery that if we didn't get first or second overall then we'd probably be better off going D, because while the forward prospects were considered solid none of them are guaranteed difference makers. So, if we are going to have to settle then we may as well go for the option where the reward is better, and that's landing a possible future top pair D. Worst case scenario is we have a big, mobile right shooting D who can probably play on the third pairing.

 

[Tetsuo]

Craig doesn't believe in his offense so the comparison makes sense from that standpoint. I loved Carlo in his draft year and still am a big fan, but Seider has more upside while not being as physical.

People can laugh at this pick. I see a floor of a second pairing shutdown dman with top pairing ceiling. We went for the homerun no qualms with that. Preferred Broberg but the same logic applied here.

Broberg is fantastic tools but needs to develop a toolbox whereas Seider is decent, potentially great tools and a fantastic toolbox. I think, based totally on conjecture, that they knew KH would draft either Seider or Broberg so they decided not to risk it. I would not be surprised at all if the Wings would have ended up going with Broberg if they moved down, given how the rest of their draft has gone.