Prospect Info: 5th Overall Pick 2020: Who Do The Sens Draft

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Hale The Villain

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Do you guys who follow the 67s closely think that Rossi is a better or worse prospect than Monahan was at the time they were getting drafted?

I would have thought that Rossi was way further ahead and had more potential than Monahan in almost every area. But for whatever reason I feel like the majority of you dont seem to be overly enthralled with him, and Im having a lot of trouble figuring out why...

Kid looks like a star in the making to me.

Rossi is probably the better prospect at the same age, but it's closer than the enormous production difference (42 more points in 2 less games) would indicate.

Monahan could not have played on a worse team in his draft year. The 67's in 2012/13 won a total of 16 games and Monahan basically doubled the 2nd leading scorer on his team in points. Compare that to Rossi who plays on the most stacked 67's team of all-time, with two other top 10 OHL scorers on his line and running a PP that ran at 30%.

Monahan would probably go in the same range as Rossi, which could be anywhere from 5-12 in this stacked class.
 

Sens of Anarchy

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This is to all the posters (Bondra Time, Aragorn, Sens of Anarchy etc.) who covet Sanderson...

I am just curious; if you could have Quinn Hughes or Jake Sanderson... who would you take?

Covet ? what makes you think I covet Sanderson?

Quinn Hughes is uber talented. I'll take him but I would never expect him to be able to defend like Sanderson.
 

aragorn

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You kind of said it yourself in your example with Hart. He was picked 48th overall, not 5th. Goalies are just such a wildcard in the draft.

I wonder how many teams would have given up a top 5 pick to draft Martin Brodeur, Dominick Hasek or Patrick Roy? Lots of goalies have won Conn Smyth Trophies & been instrumental in their teams winning the SC. Goalies are every bit as important as any other member of a team & IMO great goalies are even more important.
 
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Sweatred

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I wonder how many teams would have given up a top 5 pick to draft Martin Brodeur, Dominick Hasek or Patrick Roy? Lots of goalies have won Conn Smyth Trophies & been instrumental in their teams winning the SC. Goalies are every bit as important as any other member of a team & IMO great goalies are even more important.

I wonder how many first round goalies have ended GM’s careers...
 
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aragorn

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I wonder how many first round goalies have ended GM’s careers...
hahahaha great point ... in Philly a lot. Did Hasek cost Muckler his job here? How many goalies have cost coaches in Ottawa their jobs?
 

FormentonTheFuture

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I wonder how many teams would have given up a top 5 pick to draft Martin Brodeur, Dominick Hasek or Patrick Roy? Lots of goalies have won Conn Smyth Trophies & been instrumental in their teams winning the SC. Goalies are every bit as important as any other member of a team & IMO great goalies are even more important.
Hasek was a 10th round pick
 
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TheDebater

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BPA is always a point of contention with me because IMO it can be in the eye of the beholder. Yes, every draft there are clearly players who are so much better than everyone else, this yr it's Lafreniere. But Byfield & Stutzle both have the potential to be as good at some point in their development as he is & there is no guarantee he will be better. When we look at different rankings & we have already seen some wild & large differences where some people rank some prospects. Obviously, it will come down to what our own scouts prefer in players & that at times becomes worrisome when they draft a player like Lodin. Hopefully, they do well in this draft & make us proud.

Today most teams place players in tiers & if PD is saying that the group of prospects from 4 to 12 are all in the same tier, that might just mean they value #12 as much as #4, or as close. If the decision comes down to two prospects who are equally as good would it not make sense to draft the guy that the team might need more & would improve the team overall? BPA IMO is becoming more & more clouded when fewer & fewer people can agree who that player is exactly & the differences become less obvious.


I think the generally accepted belief regarding "Best player available" is the general consensus (i.e majority) of opinion from the so-called experts that truly dedicate time and resources all year to get to know the prospects (i.e, Button, Mckenzie, ISS, THN, CSI etc.) and you take the "majority" ranking for each player. Most of the time the fans will develop a bit of a "sense" with regards to who is the BPA at that spot and which player is still available that seems to be dropping.

For example, I like to use the following site to look at a compilation of "experts" on one page and how they ranked the prospects pre-draft:

2013 NHL Draft Prospect Rankings

If you click the link and take a look, you get a general idea of where the prospects rank, however keep in mind 2013 was pretty complicated due to the discrepancy in opinions over who should go 1-3, however, it was known which players would go top 5, just not necessarily in order. Specifically if you look at the pick the Flyers made at #11, Samuel Morin, and look at the link i posted above, you will find that only ONE expert had him top 10, the rest had him well below, ISS even had him #30.

Now whether or not the Flyers thought he was "BPA" is besides the point because every player picked by their team will tell you that he was probably BPA. But by picking Morin at #11, the Flyers missed out on Max Domi (12th) and Wennberg (14th) both of whom were ranked higher than Morin in almost every mock draft.

2014 NHL Draft Prospect Rankings

^^^ In 2014, if you look at the mock-draft, you will find that the majority had Nylander ahead of Jake Virtanen and Haydn Fleury, yet both were picked ahead of him even though he is arguably a way better player than both. David Pastrnak was selected as high as 16th and 17th by some experts and also 20th-25th, yet he was drafted at #25 while players like Bleackley, Tuch, Schmaltz, and Vrana who the experts ranked lower, were picked ahead of him.

2015 NHL Draft Prospect Rankings

In 2015, Travis Konecny was ranked top 15 by almost every expert on that page, even as high as 7th by Pronman, yet he dropped to 24th overall while guys like Colin White, De Brusk, Senyshyn, and Evegni (not Andrei) Svechnikov were picked before even though they were ranked lower.

I suppose my long-winded post above is basically to imply that even a rookie, idiot G.M who has never watched hockey can simply look at those links, do an average of all the rankings, and still make a good decision just by doing that.
 

bert

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What would he be in hindsight? Some great goalies weren't even drafted, but looking back on their careers what would teams be willing to pay up front knowing how great their careers were going to be?
Thats why you dont use high picks on goalies...
 

GCK

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I wonder how many teams would have given up a top 5 pick to draft Martin Brodeur, Dominick Hasek or Patrick Roy? Lots of goalies have won Conn Smyth Trophies & been instrumental in their teams winning the SC. Goalies are every bit as important as any other member of a team & IMO great goalies are even more important.
Before the cap absolutely, but in the cap era no chance I’d go down that path.
 

TheDebater

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Laf and Perfetti have better IQ

Stutzle is a great playmaker but seems to play a perimeter game for the most part.

We would have to break down the definition of "Hockey I.Q" as it appears to be a very subjective attribute but I do wonder; do you not need a high level hockey I.Q in order to be a "great playmaker"?

To me you cannot be a great playmaker without elite hockey IQ as a great playmaker can anticipate a move before it happens and make the play and/or pass to get his teammates an open shot or create space for them by either slowing the play down or making that instant pass to open ice ripe for taking for his wingers.

For example, great players like Gretzky and Lemieux were great playmakers because they would not make passes to where their teammates are, but rather where they were going or needed to be.
 

Korpse

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Laf and Perfetti have better IQ

Stutzle is a great playmaker but seems to play a perimeter game for the most part.

From what I've seen I would like to see him attack the middle a little more but Hockey IQ is absolutely not a concern and won't hold him back what so ever. He is so good at finding seams.
 
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Que

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At this moment I want Byfield. Plain and simple. (Then Drysdale)

What worries me about Stützle, aside from the fact that he might hate Ottawa, is the transition to the smaller ice surface.

From all I’ve read his bad habits will be exacerbated by this and could be a detriment to his trajectory.
 

angrydad

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What would he be in hindsight? Some great goalies weren't even drafted, but looking back on their careers what would teams be willing to pay up front knowing how great their careers were going to be?


I would say lots of teams would offer up extremely high picks... if they had hindsight. Nobody has a crystal ball though.
 
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DueDiligence

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I wonder how many teams would have given up a top 5 pick to draft Martin Brodeur, Dominick Hasek or Patrick Roy? Lots of goalies have won Conn Smyth Trophies & been instrumental in their teams winning the SC. Goalies are every bit as important as any other member of a team & IMO great goalies are even more important.
Brodeur picked 20th, Hasek picked 199th overall and Roy picked 3rd round #51 overall. That's the point. Who knows which goalie will be a star.
 

Burrowsaurus

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I wonder how many teams would have given up a top 5 pick to draft Martin Brodeur, Dominick Hasek or Patrick Roy? Lots of goalies have won Conn Smyth Trophies & been instrumental in their teams winning the SC. Goalies are every bit as important as any other member of a team & IMO great goalies are even more important.
Their teams weren’t even willing to spend first round picks on them let alone top 5.
 

aragorn

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Their teams weren’t even willing to spend first round picks on them let alone top 5.
Wickenheiser picked 1st OA, Yakopov 1st OA, Johnson #1 OA, Ekblad #1 OA, Stephan #1 OA, Phillips #1 OA ........ lots of mistakes made with 1st OA too.
 

TheDebater

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Wickenheiser picked 1st OA, Yakopov 1st OA, Johnson #1 OA, Ekblad #1 OA, Stephan #1 OA, Phillips #1 OA ........ lots of mistakes made with 1st OA too.

The 1996 draft was just terrible in general, the 1st round was probably one of the worst in history. You could argue Briere should have been the #1 overall pick, but Chris Phillip's was not a "bad pick" he probably had the most consistent career out of everyone in that 1st round.
 
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playasRus

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The 1996 draft was just terrible in general, the 1st round was probably one of the worst in history. You could argue Briere should have been the #1 overall pick, but Chris Phillip's was not a "bad pick" he probably had the most consistent career out of everyone in that 1st round.
Let's play the, for every underwhelming 1OA, how many goalies picked after had better careers.

For Yakupov, Vasileski would've been the first goalie. Few 1st and 2nd round busts. Finally, Korpisallo and Andersen in the 3rd and Hellebuyck in the 5th round.

Would you take those guys over Reilly, Forsberg, Tereveinen?

Because that was what people considered a weak draft, and you still have big gems in the top 20. Now we have a deeper draft where people think the top 10 is filled with potential Forsbergs. GMs were wary to pick the top goalie in a weak draft in the top 10. I can't see them taking the top goalie in the top 5 in a strong draft. In the same vain, I wouldn't take a shot at Vasileski for a shot at Forsberg when you know there's a higher chance to find an Andersen, Korpisallo, Hellebuyck in the 5th round then a star in the 3rd round
 

R2010

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Yeah but it only became a pick for organization need when the players seemingly on their BPA board got taken.

Yeah I mean I doubt that Thomson was their a pick for need really. I think they had a list of players they liked at his draft position and he was the next on the list. They said they thought he was going to be their pick if the draft went the way they expected and alluded to a couple of higher ranked guys dropping a bit after but not far enough (I think we can assume Newhook being one).
 

SENATOR

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What if we draft as 3-5, Jamie Drysdale and Jake Sanderson. Our defence will be ridiculously good. Arguably in the future, top pair - team Canada. Team USA and Sweden.
 
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Daffy

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What if we draft as 3-5, Jamie Drysdale and Jake Sanderson. Our defence will be ridiculously good. Arguably in the future, top pair - team Canada. Team USA and Sweden.

Let's not get carried away..
 
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